Yoshida speaks! And January 1 Announcements! Important FFXIV future news!

[Malacite]

Re: Yoshida speaks! And January 1 Announcements! Important FFXIV future news!

You're missing the forest for the tree; not a single job is absolutely needed now. Some, like WHM, is harder to replace, but the NMs don't all demand a single, rigid list of jobs. And, yes, RDM can still function fine as healer in exp settings.

Eeeeehh this is debatable. WAR NIN & WHM are easily the 3 most wanted jobs in Abyssea atm for !! triggering and damage. WHM is absolutely necessary for certain NMs as well, no ifs ands or buts about it. Sorry, but even with max cure potency Cure 4 just doesn't cut it when you're taking 400+ damage at regular intervals.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Yoshida speaks! And January 1 Announcements! Important FFXIV future news!

WAR NIN & WHM are easily the 3 most wanted jobs in Abyssea atm for !! triggering and damage. WHM is absolutely necessary for certain NMs as well, no ifs ands or buts about it. Sorry, but even with max cure potency Cure 4 just doesn't cut it when you're taking 400+ damage at regular intervals.

Er, you can just add another RDM or SCH to cure. Weird concept, adding an second (or third!) healer, and two (or more!) people firing off cures.

Trigger is nice, but not absolutely needed. Plus, for WHM's green/yellow triggers, you can get everything except Banish III from other jobs or /WHM. Most of the Ninjutsu trigger are available from /NIN, too. WAR is pretty darn nice for WS trigger, but for things like seals farming you only really need green/yellow.

Damage output isn't really a problem for my LS; trigger is more of an issue. (I guess I really should level staff for my PLD. /sigh)

Not to say those jobs you've listed don't bring a lot to Abyssea, but you can get by without them.


* * *

Weak, Strong, whatever. (Yeah, boring stuff--don't read.)

What does "weaker groups" mean, then? Humor me.

Inferior gear?
Less knowledge and experience?
Or the "wrong" jobs?

Knowledge, skill, gear, Atma, and willingness to go the extra mile make the difference, are some of the qualities, no?

There are other clues, too: If the melee DDs can't tell you their TP/WS sets' differences and you get dead silence when asking what food they plan on using, guess what? That group is probably going to be weaker on the melee DD output compared to a group whose DDs each have two different TP sets and couple of WS sets and carry several different types of food.

Leaving the theoretical musings and grounding it in realty, for something like exp partying, it would be exp/hr that tells you which group is better, and hence 'stronger'.

(And, yes, from parses, I can guess pretty accurately if any particular melee DD uses food or not--KParser tracks which items were used by whom.)

A group's strength can also change over time, by the way.

you implied doing Abyssea is larger numbers is something "weaker" groups do. There's a reason you said it, so just say what the hell you mean.

Implied? I said it outright: you can use more people if you want, or fewer people if you is capable of doing that. It's flexible.

Is that such a difficult concept?

I take it to mean you do it with your linkshell in your typical sunshine and roses bullshit scenario, but it also suggests there's a particular setup your LS goes with if you do it with less people so often.

I don't know why you harp on my LS so much, especially when you have no idea how it operates. We have large group (12-18 people) sessions for doing bosses, getting atmas (remember, no competition for atma--everyone in, gets--the more people the merrier), and extended farming sessions (where one party or so farm for TE while others farm NMs). It's a twice a week thing.

Then, we have smaller (less "formal", if you like) runs, usually for empryean armor+1 seals and key items. They aren't scheduled, it's basically whenever people feel like it and can put together a working group.

Yeah, we do both small and large group. Imagine that.

* * *

Jobs in FF11 are too complicated to think in terms of strong/weak-which is why you couldn't find where I write it like that--I don't have such a concept in my head. BBQ, you're imposing your conception on me, which doesn't fit.

I think of jobs in terms of where and how they are useful.

* * *

So, BBQ,

Based on your amazing ability to read wiki and our forum conversation/argument, does COR still blow BRD away? Still no small group play in Abyssea? Jugs don't impress? Somehow, RDMs don't deserve atma?! (What were you thinking? Kicking people with RDM out of alliance at 1% so they wouldn't get it? lol.)

How about just straight up and admit you didn't know what you were talking about? A sign of humility now and then won't kill you, you know.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Yoshida speaks! And January 1 Announcements! Important FFXIV future news!

How about just straight up and admit you didn't know what you were talking about? A sign of humility now and then won't kill you, you know.

Because then he wouldn't be the BBQ we all know and love to argue with.

[Malacite]

Re: Yoshida speaks! And January 1 Announcements! Important FFXIV future news!

Er, you can just add another RDM or SCH to cure.

Not gonna fly with every NM. It's doable, but much much riskier on certain mobs (like Iktomi who can sickle slash for over 2k dmg and ignores shadows) It's not just that Cure 5 and 6 heal a lot more HP, it's that they also generate minimal hate.


As far as mob drops go, without !! drop rates in abyssea can suck pretty badly too. If you have a lot of extra time from blue crates and nothing better to do than go for it, but the best way to farm stuff I've found is with the following party:

WAR NIN WHM BLM BRD BLU.


That will easily take out pretty much every NM in abyssea with little issue, and can cover the majority of !! triggers. You can hit all Red & Yellow with this set up, missing only a few blu. Depending on how people are set up, you can have the BLU sub BRD (since BLU's role is mainly for yellow in this anyway) and swap out the BRD for a MNK if you don't need elegy and want to make sure you can hit every single blunt blue !!. It's actually kind of annoying that MNK can do 14/15 of those, damn hexa strike being WHM only (MNK also the best tank/DD in Abyssea assuming you have Victory Smite & the right Atma)

^ you by no means have to do it this way, this is just the optimal low-man set up.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Yoshida speaks! And January 1 Announcements! Important FFXIV future news!

Not gonna fly with every NM. It's doable, but much much riskier on certain mobs (like Iktomi who can sickle slash for over 2k dmg and ignores shadows) It's not just that Cure 5 and 6 heal a lot more HP, it's that they also generate minimal hate.

When you split the curing between two people, each of them can't quite build enmity that fast. Add in a BRD or something who's topping off HP, and the main healers would get plenty of cool down time for VE to drop. It's really not that big of a deal.

I tank a lot on PLD (yeah, I know, old school), and unless the monsters have enmity reset, they rarely go after healers. It's pretty much the same with any kind of tank we use, with THF perhaps having a shakier hold. In any case, it's always the nukers and DDs who tend to get monsters' attention, not the RDM or SCH pumping Cure IV/III.

As far as mob drops go, without !! drop rates in abyssea can suck pretty badly too.

Most of the farming I've been doing are for the Empyrean armor +1's seals, and those only require green/yellow. The really irreplaceable job for proc'ing weakness are actually BRD and BLU, since you can't land the any of the spells from /BRD and /BLU doesn't give full spell coverage (IIRC). And BLM, since the -ga III's are only available to them. (Kinda surprised you haven't listed BRD, really.)

That said, I've a friend who managed his DNC +1 head, legs, and feet without BLM or BRD or BLU for the most part. It was slower and less efficient, but he solo'ed, quested, and small group'ed all the seals.

Key item and other treasure drops would be better with blue and red, but it's not like atma and gear didn't drop back in the days when we didn't understand the relationship between proc'ing weakness and those things.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Yoshida speaks! And January 1 Announcements! Important FFXIV future news!

Take it to an FFXI thread please. I don't come here to read FFXIV information only to have to sift through pages of shit on FFXI.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Yoshida speaks! And January 1 Announcements! Important FFXIV future news!

Let's get back to the topic please. Take your debate to a more appropriate thread.

[Malacite]

Re: Yoshida speaks! And January 1 Announcements! Important FFXIV future news!

Most of the farming I've been doing are for the Empyrean armor +1's seals, and those only require green/yellow. The really irreplaceable job for proc'ing weakness are actually BRD and BLU, since you can't land the any of the spells from /BRD and /BLU doesn't give full spell coverage (IIRC). And BLM, since the -ga III's are only available to them. (Kinda surprised you haven't listed BRD, really.)

That said, I've a friend who managed his DNC +1 head, legs, and feet without BLM or BRD or BLU for the most part. It was slower and less efficient, but he solo'ed, quested, and small group'ed all the seals.

#1 I mentioned BRD several times

#2 you can use all threnodies /BRD. Doesn't matter if they're resisted either, as long as the spell goes off.

#3 What TGM said (sorry)

[Aeni]

Re: Yoshida speaks! And January 1 Announcements! Important FFXIV future news!

Let's get back to the topic please. Take your debate to a more appropriate thread.

You have to admit, this was the only action here, and I was starting to be entertained. It caused me grand delusions that these guys were playing another beta version of FFXIV that would be released in a few weeks and I had my hopes up.

[Malacite]

Re: Yoshida speaks! And January 1 Announcements! Important FFXIV future news!

I"m sure it did.

The main subject is dead atm anyway, until we start hearing more from SE which will probably be next month.

[Balfree]

Re: Yoshida speaks! And January 1 Announcements! Important FFXIV future news!

and they have been silent for a long time too... the 1st of january announcement they announced, was a HOOGE let down. was expecting ponies, got a derpy donkey

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Yoshida speaks! And January 1 Announcements! Important FFXIV future news!

I'm actually wanting this to come out on the PS3 now I've picked one up. I'm interested to know whether the mods etc that were prevalent on the PC version of FFXI are around in FFXIV though. I can't imagine playing the game if the PC users have such massive advantages once again.

[Malacite]

Re: Yoshida speaks! And January 1 Announcements! Important FFXIV future news!

I figure we'll start hearing some more news on 14 around mid-late Feb, same time we should be hearing about the next XI update.

[awesomeOmnislashing]

Re: Yoshida speaks! And January 1 Announcements! Important FFXIV future news!

The poll the opened on January first will close on the 14th (tomorrow) and I think they are waiting to get all their data in before they make the next move.

I find it obnoxious though, because there are a lot of people like me who will go to the lodestone every other day and look for news. Two weeks or more has gone by since their apology, and still nothing comes out and they haven't been more open with their player base. I suppose you could say that this is how SE operates, but it sure as hell isn't saving them any customers.

the last update fixed some minor bug with leves, and the last message was concerning how to use the bazaar system. what the fuck?

[Malacite]

Re: Yoshida speaks! And January 1 Announcements! Important FFXIV future news!

I wouldn't get bent out of shape over it. I'm sure they're busting their balls over at SE right now trying to get a handle on all this, they're probably nervous as hell too - in part due to the survey results, but also because Wada probably has a noose over their heads if they don't pull it together soon.

They're undoubtedly under duress right now, so I for one just hope they make something great out of it all and I'm fine with waiting too. XI thankfully hasn't been as fun as it is now in years and I'll kindly take my sweet time enjoying it while they fix 14.


Just wish I hadn't blown $300+ on a new GPU and Power Supply only to be so thoroughly disappointed.