New Features and User Interface Improvements (11/17/2010)

[Etra]

Re: New Features and User Interface Improvements (11/17/2010)

The "required" facilities are really just "recommended" and far from actually needed.

Er. No?

At 19 weaving I need the facilities for hempen cloth because it's "required." If I don't have it, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail.

I don't see how that is "recommended."

[GosamerWings]

Re: New Features and User Interface Improvements (11/17/2010)

Er. No?

At 19 weaving I need the facilities for hempen cloth because it's "required." If I don't have it, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail.

I don't see how that is "recommended."

I 2nd this, the few times I tried to be lazy about using facilities, I failed harder than S-E at a successful launch.
If it says you need bigger facilities, and you don't head the warning the amount of durability you lose is astronomical for every failed attempt during the synth.

[Aeni]

Re: New Features and User Interface Improvements (11/17/2010)

..err, it's not really that bad. In fact I haven't failed a smelting synth since like...level 6 and I very rarely if ever use the facilities, and I've never used the facilities for making leather and I've never busted a synth. Neither skill is over 13 either so it's not like I'm massively overleveled. The "required" facilities are really just "recommended" and far from actually needed.

I do the vast majority of my synthing in Ul'Dah, which has none of the actual "facilities" I'd use. They help when you're under or at, once you're past the rank cap they're no longer needed.

If it says "recommended" it's required. Go over to Lodestone. The perfect example would be the one given by Etra. Fail. Fail. Fail. Fail. Rank 14 WV and a Rank 8sh recipe. Offhand or Mainhand ... doesn't change a thing.

There's quite a bit of recipes like this. Carpentry is another and Leather has a notoriously bad need for the 2nd tier support on an arguably much required 1st tier mat. Totally depressing.

[Malacite]

Re: New Features and User Interface Improvements (11/17/2010)

..err, it's not really that bad. In fact I haven't failed a smelting synth since like...level 6 and I very rarely if ever use the facilities, and I've never used the facilities for making leather and I've never busted a synth. Neither skill is over 13 either so it's not like I'm massively overleveled. The "required" facilities are really just "recommended" and far from actually needed.

I do the vast majority of my synthing in Ul'Dah, which has none of the actual "facilities" I'd use. They help when you're under or at, once you're past the rank cap they're no longer needed.

Freak accident/stroke of pure luck because my and everyone else's experience that I've ran into in-game indicates to the contrary.

[Ziero]

Re: New Features and User Interface Improvements (11/17/2010)

Freak accident/stroke of pure luck because my and everyone else's experience that I've ran into in-game indicates to the contrary.

It's impossible for it to be a freak accident or a stroke of luck because I've never failed a sheep leather synth. I've made buttloads of sheep leather, never failed a synth. Sheep Leather, which recommends you have a "larger facility" and caps at level 8 has never failed for me despite never using the facility at all, ever (in fact I've never even been to the leather guild) and having my rank currently at 11.

Do I have to post videos of this effect in action, where despite not having the "recommended facilities" I still succeed time after time? Maybe it's different at higher ranks, but you most certainly can go and make things like sheep leather anywhere and any time you want. (incidentally, I just went 3/3 on sheep leathers, without facilities).

So it's either for some reason I have broken the game and SE has smiled upon me in that I have become a god amongst crafters who can make stuff that needs "bigger facilities" without having the facilities...or people like to make mountains out of molehills. My guess however is most definitely the latter.

[Etra]

Re: New Features and User Interface Improvements (11/17/2010)

...or people like to make mountains out of molehills. My guess however is most definitely the latter.

Fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, success, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, element becomes chaotic, success, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, element becomes chaotic, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail.

[Malacite]

Re: New Features and User Interface Improvements (11/17/2010)

Do I have to post videos of this effect in action, where despite not having the "recommended facilities" I still succeed time after time? Maybe it's different at higher ranks, but you most certainly can go and make things like sheep leather anywhere and any time you want. (incidentally, I just went 3/3 on sheep leathers, without facilities).

Yes you do, POIDH because all the in-game experience I and many others I've spoken with in game contradict you. When you say "never" how big is your sampling size? How often have you made sheep leather without support at or under the cap? Or what about the moon phase and crap like that since that all seems to be a mystery factor once again (only possible explanation for my lack of HQ's with over 500 god damn quality and +3 ingredients. Seriously SE WHAT THE HELL?!)

Shit even over the cap I've had some of these synths just crap out on me. Yeah I can still do them fairly reliably now but whenever a failure happens it really kills, like 20+ durability easily. It's at least 25% chance too without the buff.

[GosamerWings]

Re: New Features and User Interface Improvements (11/17/2010)

I don't know what stroke of luck you have going for you but I sure as hell would like a dose of it, because anything that I have ever attempted that needs the facilities of the guild has either failed or if I got ungodly lucky finished with lower than 10 durability on the synth. I tested this time and time again through a multitude of crafts, to see if it was even possible to push out (on a regular basis) a reliable successful rate on things that I didn't feel like making my way all the way back to the armorer's guild for, or things I didn't feel like catching the boat to uldah for. I have yet been able to get any noticeable degree of constant or even semi constant success on things that require facilities (and not just me but 6 other people who I regularly talked to in my ls.

I don't know what you’re doing right but obviously, I and a multitude of other people are doing something wrong.

[Kailea]

Re: New Features and User Interface Improvements (11/17/2010)

I never had a problem with failing a lot myself, there was that small time when SE screwed up after an update, but I just did not craft for a day, until they fixed it, then I was fine again, now granted I have not played for a month soooo...... but when I played it was not as bad as you are making it out to be.

Now did I fail? yes, but it was not fail x100 like your claiming. People really like to over dramatize things as of late.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: New Features and User Interface Improvements (11/17/2010)

It's impossible for it to be a freak accident or a stroke of luck because I've never failed a sheep leather synth. I've made buttloads of sheep leather, never failed a synth.

I have failed Sheep Leather. It wasn't often but I have. I don't have the "recommended facilities" either and, at the time, didn't even know what the hell it meant. lol At level 15 leatherworker, I used 3 stacks of sheepskins and in that time I had 5 failures, so like I said it wasn't that significant but it is possible. I think what factors into doing multiple synths over and over like that is fatigue. It gets boring and your attention wanes so I think some failures can be attributed to not paying attention to what you are doing and choosing the wrong action.

[Taskmage]

Re: New Features and User Interface Improvements (11/17/2010)

Has anyone considered that sheep leather and hempen cloth might be programmed differently despite appearing the same in the interface? There's no special flag on desynths in XI or hakutaku clusters to let the players know there's a big difference in the behavior of the synth, but obviously there is one. Maybe the recommended facilities on sheep leather are "if you feel like it" or even mistakenly listed in the UI while the facilities on hempen cloth are highly freakin' recommended.

[Aeni]

Re: New Features and User Interface Improvements (11/17/2010)

Has anyone considered that sheep leather and hempen cloth might be programmed differently despite appearing the same in the interface? There's no special flag on desynths in XI or hakutaku clusters to let the players know there's a big difference in the behavior of the synth, but obviously there is one. Maybe the recommended facilities on sheep leather are "if you feel like it" or even mistakenly listed in the UI while the facilities on hempen cloth are highly freakin' recommended.

I know for colored sheep leather you need to use Offhand and not Mainhand, because with or without support, you are almost guaranteed failure. However, from my experience, when a recipe says that you need a large facility, they really mean it. Not, "oh, if you can" ... If you outlevel a recipe by a lot, you could theoretically, during full moon, just not even bother with the facilities. Once you step into the realm of "larger guild facilities", that's when you better go and get that support or risk blowing 50-200k worth of mats in a sitting.

Do note that there's also an issue where if you out rank a recipe by more than 10, you'll see a lot more failures as well. When I talk about failures, I don't mean the "botched synthesis" ... I mean the individual actions within the crafting (synthesis) like Standard and Bold. These things will continually and constantly fail on you when you meet certain conditions, like the following:

-Outranking recipes
-Inappropriate ranked gear (too high or too low)
-New Moon (although to be honest, this alone doesn't cause very much problems, but it influences to a noticeable degree)
-Weather that is the "anti" of your particular element you're working with (i.e., Rain vs Earth Shard/Crystal syntheses)
-Wonky server lag
-Mainhand versus Offhand
-Gear/Tool damage (when it goes into red or critical you better believe failure is lurking around every syntheses)

I might be missing more but that's a pretty good list of stuff I've noticed so far.

[Malacite]

Re: New Features and User Interface Improvements (11/17/2010)

I know for colored sheep leather you need to use Offhand and not Mainhand, because with or without support, you are almost guaranteed failure. However, from my experience, when a recipe says that you need a large facility, they really mean it. Not, "oh, if you can" ... If you outlevel a recipe by a lot, you could theoretically, during full moon, just not even bother with the facilities. Once you step into the realm of "larger guild facilities", that's when you better go and get that support or risk blowing 50-200k worth of mats in a sitting.

Which reminds me, would it kill SE to put into the recipes whether the main or off hand tool is recommended?

[Etra]

Re: New Features and User Interface Improvements (11/17/2010)

Which reminds me, would it kill SE to put into the recipes whether the main or off hand tool is recommended?

It doesn't matter which you use. The main hand gives you HQ items from, well, HQing, while the off hand gives you more of the item when you HQ.

I've tried interchanging them and I've noticed no real difference in any of my crafts with pass or fail.

[Malacite]

Re: New Features and User Interface Improvements (11/17/2010)

It doesn't matter which you use. The main hand gives you HQ items from, well, HQing, while the off hand gives you more of the item when you HQ.

Not true, there are inherent success rate differences for certain recipes that need the offhand. Part of the problem though is your offhand tool tends to lag behind the main tool in terms of upgrades, which is why my Iron Needle vastly outperforms my maple spinning wheel right now on making threads. But once I hit 27 Cloth that will reverse fast.