AH is a bad thing, anyone agree FFXIV should not have AH?

[DakAttack]

Re: AH is a bad thing, anyone agree FFXIV should not have AH?

Sorry, I came in late cause I was off work (getting married ^^) for 2 weeks. But I did some research.

Google >>> FFxiv Gil

100's of sites....

10 mil for $160

Good job SE, you elevated RMT by not including an AH.... Fucking fail.

I doubt anybody has that much, who isn't hacking. There were also advertisements for FFXIV guides days before the CE released. It's fake.

[ShepardG]

Re: AH is a bad thing, anyone agree FFXIV should not have AH?

While I admit, the website said it required 12hrs to process, how that gil came about is somewhat besides the point. The fact that SE released a bugged game where you can create enough gil to sell before you get banned, destroy's their justification for not including an AH in the game.

It's like having Wal-mart, and they put on 15 levels of secruity in the two main entrances, but then leave the lawn and garden entrance completely un-protected.

[DakAttack]

Re: AH is a bad thing, anyone agree FFXIV should not have AH?

While I admit, the website said it required 12hrs to process, how that gil came about is somewhat besides the point. The fact that SE released a bugged game where you can create enough gil to sell before you get banned, destroy's their justification for not including an AH in the game.

It's like having Wal-mart, and they put on 15 levels of secruity in the two main entrances, but then leave the lawn and garden entrance completely un-protected.

I know, right? It's completely unthinkable that they haven't fixed EVERY SINGLE BUG in their massive game. I mean, what am I paying for, exactly? Unless it's perfection so utter and pure enough to cause me to drop to my knees and weep in ecstacy, then I want my money back.

[ShepardG]

Re: AH is a bad thing, anyone agree FFXIV should not have AH?

Lol, Bugs are a given

The bugs that SE has in their newley released game (I can't type things to people because the chat get's erased if i'm doing something, I can't sort my inventory, I have to stop when I browse a bazzar) ARE NOT BUGS.
That's shitty designing, AND if those things were planned to be implemented, and they released anyway, that's greed.

I love everything Final Fantasy (shit I spent 180 dollars on an original copy of FFVII for the PC cause i collect FF things) but I will be the first to say that they have disapointed me severly, and it seems alot of other die hard fans also.

This thread is about having or not having an AH i assume? SE stated in interviews (i'll search tonight when i get home if you'd like) that their intent on not having an AH was to combat Real money trading.

If america's goverment "fought back" against terrorism the same way SE "Fights back" against RMT, We wouldn't have airplanes. (god that has potential to side track the point, but it was a quick analogy i came up with)

My point, was that RMT has nothing to do with a concise location for RMT's to price gouge, and control economy (An AH). It has everything to do with actively pursuing the people that are gathering the gil together, and banning them to the IP address, or ISP provider. Does this screw over some folks that are geuine players, yes unfortunatley, but it dosen't cause them to leave out a major source of economic progression, which is the Auction house (or a simalir system).

Look at E-bay, it near defined how the internet based economy would form, and is still to this day one of the most trafficed websites on the WWW. As much as I hate to say it, these MMO's that we enjoy so much are socialogical mirrors of alot of the things we do in real life. My biggest griveance with SE at this point is that they continuely fail at realizing the aforementioned fact.

We don't run around town to 10 different stores looking for a widget, when we can go online search for that widget, see who sells it in the local area, how much their asking for, and when their bussiness hours are.

I've said it before, and It just seems more the case, but Tanaka (lead director of 14, used to be of 11, and also he did 1,2,3) is either A) disillusioned as to the way that MMO's are percieved, B) he's greedy, and dosen't quite care about something he started from the ground up anymore (i.e. Sellout) C) His hands are tied from some hidden corprate decisions that we are not aware of.

I blame him because he's put himself in that position. He is the lead and when you volunteer to be "that guy" you have to take the ridicule as well as the "atta boy's" . He leaves 11 and suddenly it gets a resurgance because they implemented design changes to what is arguably the very core of the game (how you gain Exp, what gear is sought after). And glaring community issues that 11 had (I mean I never heard of anyone in the development chain posting on any FFXI forum) are showing up in 14.

I mean the lodestone dosen't have a forum where players can post verified errors, and a thread down, suggestions on things to improve. I might have missed it but i looked for about 10 mins

Having an AH, or a way to search a "zones" bazzars/retainers should have been implemented in closed beta, refined in open, and near complete on launch day. None of this occured, and responding after the fact is a bad way to start off a new MMO

[DakAttack]

Re: AH is a bad thing, anyone agree FFXIV should not have AH?

Lol, Bugs are a given

The bugs that SE has in their newley released game (I can't type things to people because the chat get's erased if i'm doing something, I can't sort my inventory, I have to stop when I browse a bazzar) ARE NOT BUGS.
That's shitty designing, AND if those things were planned to be implemented, and they released anyway, that's greed.

I love everything Final Fantasy (shit I spent 180 dollars on an original copy of FFVII for the PC cause i collect FF things) but I will be the first to say that they have disapointed me severly, and it seems alot of other die hard fans also.

This thread is about having or not having an AH i assume? SE stated in interviews (i'll search tonight when i get home if you'd like) that their intent on not having an AH was to combat Real money trading.

If america's goverment "fought back" against terrorism the same way SE "Fights back" against RMT, We wouldn't have airplanes. (god that has potential to side track the point, but it was a quick analogy i came up with)

My point, was that RMT has nothing to do with a concise location for RMT's to price gouge, and control economy (An AH). It has everything to do with actively pursuing the people that are gathering the gil together, and banning them to the IP address, or ISP provider. Does this screw over some folks that are geuine players, yes unfortunatley, but it dosen't cause them to leave out a major source of economic progression, which is the Auction house (or a simalir system).

Look at E-bay, it near defined how the internet based economy would form, and is still to this day one of the most trafficed websites on the WWW. As much as I hate to say it, these MMO's that we enjoy so much are socialogical mirrors of alot of the things we do in real life. My biggest griveance with SE at this point is that they continuely fail at realizing the aforementioned fact.

We don't run around town to 10 different stores looking for a widget, when we can go online search for that widget, see who sells it in the local area, how much their asking for, and when their bussiness hours are.

I've said it before, and It just seems more the case, but Tanaka (lead director of 14, used to be of 11, and also he did 1,2,3) is either A) disillusioned as to the way that MMO's are percieved, B) he's greedy, and dosen't quite care about something he started from the ground up anymore (i.e. Sellout) C) His hands are tied from some hidden corprate decisions that we are not aware of.

I blame him because he's put himself in that position. He is the lead and when you volunteer to be "that guy" you have to take the ridicule as well as the "atta boy's" . He leaves 11 and suddenly it gets a resurgance because they implemented design changes to what is arguably the very core of the game (how you gain Exp, what gear is sought after). And glaring community issues that 11 had (I mean I never heard of anyone in the development chain posting on any FFXI forum) are showing up in 14.

I mean the lodestone dosen't have a forum where players can post verified errors, and a thread down, suggestions on things to improve. I might have missed it but i looked for about 10 mins

Having an AH, or a way to search a "zones" bazzars/retainers should have been implemented in closed beta, refined in open, and near complete on launch day. None of this occured, and responding after the fact is a bad way to start off a new MMO

I'm not sure where to start, but Ebay is not one of the most trafficed websites on the internets, it's use has seen a gradual decline over the years. Besides that point, it's easily abused without consequences.

I don't understand why you think Eorzea has the internet, all of a sudden, where players should be able to look up bazaars. It doesn't, so you can't, and now you're forced to shop around like we did ten years ago.

I doubt SE intends to prevent gil farmers from farming and selling gil, because that's potential revenue for them. What they seem to be getting at is preventing them from controlling and perverting the economy in a way that forces money from the players only to sell it right back. Sure, their tactics can mostly still be accomplished, but it's going to require more work and constant vigilance.

I actually enjoy the bazaar system. It's a hassle not really know who to check for what, but I take the time to get to know crafters and find out who their retainers are, so I know where to find their crafts. I've also made an asston of money with my retainer; I'm up to about 300k, and I'm a little afraid to spend it. It's not as difficult to find what you need as people think it is, you just need to stop being a stuffy doube-bag and talk to the people who make what you want.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: AH is a bad thing, anyone agree FFXIV should not have AH?

Sorry, I came in late cause I was off work (getting married ^^) for 2 weeks

Congrats to you and Mrs. Shepard!

[ShepardG]

Re: AH is a bad thing, anyone agree FFXIV should not have AH?

I doubt SE intends to prevent gil farmers from farming and selling gil, because that's potential revenue for them. What they seem to be getting at is preventing them from controlling and perverting the economy in a way that forces money from the players only to sell it right back. Sure, their tactics can mostly still be accomplished, but it's going to require more work and constant vigilance.

This part is genius and I never even thought about that. I guess in that aspect it does limit the ammount of development RMT has in the growth of the new 14 economy. I personally would like a search function in conjunction with some sort of indiviual retainer bidding system. You could list your items for a flat price, or list them as ????? where folks can bid on an item, and it's history remains hidden, except to the person who's finding the bottom line. That way you enter the market wards, you search for say (using my previous example) a sheep leather strap (gray) and it pulls up a list of retainers that are selling said item. To combat lag you could do something like /baz <retainer's name> and it "checks" them even if they haven't loaded on your screen. You could buy that sheep strap for 2k from joe schmo's or go over to gertrude mcstupid face and bid 1k ...nope no go.....1.5k?? sold ...that's a good deal, so you buy 3 more, and her supply stays hidden from folks, so you go to buy your 5th and what do ya know, her price went up ... she's at 2k now /shrug

It's something, but it allows impulse buyers to buy while patient money contientious buyers to play the field and get the best deal.

Also i'm all about making some friends, but i've been fuckered twice now by a-holes after shouting for someone to finish a synth for me, I give them the mat's and they synth the wrong thing, or in the other case just steal it and log out That dosen't have really anything to do with the AH, just crap that has happened to me that would have been avoided if someone who had made the synth sold some in a manner that I wouldn't have to spend 30 mins searching bazzars

I don't understand why you think Eorzea has the internet, all of a sudden, where players should be able to look up bazaars. It doesn't, so you can't, and now you're forced to shop around like we did ten years ago.

I don't think Eorzea has the internet, it dosen't and I guess that's o.k. with you, but for the vast majority of players spending 20-30 minutes searching bazzars for a sheep leather strap is unacceptable. It's 2010, I can get the internet on my toilet paper for christ sakes. but SE couldn't release a game with a search engine of some SORT. You can argue that it's not needed, sure, the internet in RL isn't needed, but it's a convience that i've come to appreciate, like running water, and toilet paper, and also to expect.

My gripe for why they need it : If they don't get something in place quick they'll kill the game. having five thousand folks who are totally o.k. with the options we have now are not gonna pay the bills for SE and FFXIV.

I mean, you admit that we have to shop around in game like we would have 8-9 years ago in Everquest or Lineage (comparing it to shoping around like we did in mid to late 90's) and you think that's o.k? That's silly man.

I'm not sure where to start, but Ebay is not one of the most trafficed websites on the internets, it's use has seen a gradual decline over the years. Besides that point, it's easily abused without consequences.

Lol it's the 21 most visited site on the web....it would be in the top 15 but the site i checked has like 8 different versions of google in the top 20 /shrug
I'm not sure what sort of abuse there is, unless you mean companys posting up thousands of auctions for their home based bussiness, which you can filter out /shrug

Congrats to you and Mrs. Shepard!

Thanks mom ^^ check it out:

hmmmm link button notworking... anyway check my tagged photos: Daniel Shepard Garrett | Facebook

[Aeni]

Re: AH is a bad thing, anyone agree FFXIV should not have AH?

10 mil for $160

It's an exploit. And anyone who buys gil will be automatically banned this time around. I wonder if this exploit wasn't put into place intentionally by SE to find out where the gil sellers are coming from and who the potential buyers are. If you can't make gil in this game you're doing it all wrong. We have another discussion in which there is TOO MUCH GIL in the game right now and it's not from gil sellers or exploits.

And yes, it's an exploit, there was a bug in which players are able to accumulate a billion gils in under 2 hours. This exploit is being used by the gil sellers and they are able to sell gils in extraordinary amounts. However, this makes it very easy for SE to track and players will be banned (Easy enough, right? At this stage in the game no one can have 10 million gils in a short amount of time even if they were able to rob other players)

[ShepardG]

Re: AH is a bad thing, anyone agree FFXIV should not have AH?

there was a bug in which players are able to accumulate a billion gils in under 2 hours.

Wow...that's crazy shit, I was unaware of any exploit, but unless SE built a system in 14 that can filiter and discern things like trading someone 500k or the RMT's buying something from someone's bazzar for way over the asking price, it's gonna be hard to track these sort of things.

playing devils advocate here:

If I go and buy gil, and i place an item in my bazzar, like... a fire shard, for 500k and someone "buys it" it doesn't matter if they get banned 10 minutes later for "gil hacking". Admitedly there isn't a free trial like in 11 so eventually it's gonna hurt having to buy copy after copy of 14 just to create throw away accounts, but when your getting 70 bucks for 10-15 mins of work the biggest problem RMT's are looking at is how to maintain an account as long as possible. hell they could probably just farm normal stuff, like a normal player and produce a million gil a day just npcing things over 10 accounts.
Until they get that big order which will pay for 4-5 new accounts at the cost of 1....
I dunno really, i am basically just trying to put my self in their shoes to understand their process/techniques. Best way to defeat your enemy is to know them.

More off topic, but interesting (atleast to me I guess):

I sort of feel, that the next major MMO will probably have some sort of stable economy without the use of RMT, with the option to buy Money from the MMOrpg company themselves. At that point, they can control the "unoffical" rmt's while making matching adjustments to the in-game economy.

Example:
-Rmt start selling gold for 10$ for 10 gold
-MMO responds by selling gold for $9 for 10 gold BUT
-MMO raises taxes, raises (and i don't have any experience with other mmo's so i default to bird tax) chocobo fee's, raises synth support fee's.
-RMT's can't compete with a steady, authorized way, to aquire money in game, so they move on to other venue's
-MMO lowers taxes, raises price of gold to 15$ for 5 gold, and increases rewards from quests (in 14's case guild leves)

This would have more of an eb-and-flow feel, but at the same time it would make the economy more controlable from the developers standpoint. (not to mention probably make them a shit ton of money)

Thoughts? I'm just trying to brainstorm here honestly, atleast until we get a AH/bazzar search ^^

So... more on topic i guess, an centralized system of search/or auction for items wouldn't be a bad thing, atleast not for the regular joe schmoe (me) who can play anywhere from 4 hrs to 0hrs on the week nights and randomly on the weekends. I just haven't heard enough counter arguments for the fact that it isn't there.

[Paradigm777]

Re: AH is a bad thing, anyone agree FFXIV should not have AH?

Thoughts?

While this system would cut down on RMT, I believe that many people simply don't want to play a game where you can buy in game currency with cash. This gives an unfair advantage to those that can't use a credit card (underage players) or those that can't afford/don't want to spend money on a game they're already paying for. This is a feature inherent in a lot of the free MMORPGs floating around. "Free to play, pay to win" as they say.

[DakAttack]

Re: AH is a bad thing, anyone agree FFXIV should not have AH?

You can't stop RMT, but you can mitigate their effects on the players. In the long run, I'm sure they're beneficial to everybody, in some way or another. I'm sure that's arguable so I wont push it, but I don't see SE attempting to completely stop RMT any time soon, and their current efforts shouldn't be mistaken for such.

[Raydeus]

Re: AH is a bad thing, anyone agree FFXIV should not have AH?

EVE's anti RMT system is pretty good, because it involves all players and allows them to pay for their subs with in-game currency, instead of taking the money out of their system. Game time codes are bought directly from the company (CCP) and sold on the free market in EVE's (far superior) version of the AH.

The price of the GTC is set slightly above the price of the normal sub price and the free market does the rest.

RMT may have a lot of time on their hands, but can't really compete against all the players who are able to make enough currency to to pay for their sub that way.

But then again Feba has been talking about it for like 3 years already and has been summarily ignored.

[ShepardG]

Re: AH is a bad thing, anyone agree FFXIV should not have AH?

hmmm.
that sounds interesting. Do you or feba know of a place I could read more about eve's economy/ah system?
I attempted to play it once, awhile back, but don't think I actually gave it a fair shake.

[Raydeus]

Re: AH is a bad thing, anyone agree FFXIV should not have AH?

The best place to start would be the game's official forums. Since free markets can a huge part of the gameplay they have a lot of info about them.

There's also the presentations at the Conventions from their economist that you can watch on Youtube (CCP channel), they are usually an hour long.

This is not CCP's economist btw (or maybe he doubles), but a dedicated team solely focused on analyzing EVE's markets and making projections/suggestions for new additions to the game, resource allocation and their impact overall.

Though you'll see them flamed on a regular basis because they only provide statistics and projections for the dev team to consider for the most part, so they have better info when adding new items/mechanics or changing resource placement, contrary to many player's belief that they are actually in charge of the economy or are there to balance it.

Example

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSgVeU7e9tU[/ame]

---------- Post added at 01:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 PM ----------

PS > It ain't called Spreadsheets in space ~Online~ for nothing.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: AH is a bad thing, anyone agree FFXIV should not have AH?

I don't think Eorzea has the internet, it dosen't and I guess that's o.k. with you, but for the vast majority of players spending 20-30 minutes searching bazzars for a sheep leather strap is unacceptable. It's 2010, I can get the internet on my toilet paper for christ sakes. but SE couldn't release a game with a search engine of some SORT. You can argue that it's not needed, sure, the internet in RL isn't needed, but it's a convience that i've come to appreciate, like running water, and toilet paper, and also to expect.

Stating the year has little relevance to a fantasy world. Why would Middle Earth, for example, have eBay?

I GUESS BECAUSE ITS 2010!

Also, pay attention.

They're adding search engines. They've announced it. There is little point to bitch about the lack of of them when we know they were coming. This is an MMORPG, blatantly rushed to market and one you were apparently eager to buy despite knowing that fact. You got what you paid for - a rushed MMORPG.

So don't act surprised they're getting to what you consider "basic" features right now. Back when PS3 gamers were saying they were rushing this, you PC guys were more than willing to leap to SE's defense so you could get your greedy little hands on it as soon as possible. I have zero sympathy for anyone's frustrations regarding this game right now.

And once they do add search engines, the next complaint will be walking to vendors. Your complaint will be that its just like 2010 now. You look up the deals and then move to a physical place to purchase them. THE HORROR, THE HORROR!