Synthesizing

[Dux]

Re: Synthesizing

So, we should just pool our knowledge together, and formulate FFXIO's crafting guide.

So Aeni are you going to start pulling this all together? We have bits and pieces all over this thread right now and it's going to get worse soon as I plan to start my investigation into +Control next week.

If anybody else is looking to contribut but doesn't like doing all the math my spreadsheet will take away alot of the burden for you so I can make it available to anybody who wants it.

[Aeni]

Re: Synthesizing

So Aeni are you going to start pulling this all together? We have bits and pieces all over this thread right now and it's going to get worse soon as I plan to start my investigation into +Control next week.

If anybody else is looking to contribut but doesn't like doing all the math my spreadsheet will take away alot of the burden for you so I can make it available to anybody who wants it.

I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this ... as either a collaborate "open source" project with a site to go with it, Google code/document/project, or something. Something that removes having to constantly email each other data sets lol

You know what I found really frustrating? My BSM is abyssmal. It's failing hard core and I don't understand why. I thought it may be because I was using R12 tool at R20 and so crafted myself an R17 hammer last night. Still failing.

The only thing I can think of as a source for this is because when I switched "mains" from MRD to GLA I "retalented" my points from a strict adherance to STR/DEX to more of a STR/VIT/DEX + a few MND. I cannot believe that in order to have great success in BSM that you need to dump most of your stats into STR. That would be ... that would be bad.

And when I mean failing hardcore, I do mean that in the very sense of the word in every way imaginable. In contrast, my ARM synthing is going so smooth with less points into VIT than BSM had in STR that I think BSM is broken.

[Freelancer]

Re: Synthesizing

Lately I've been having great success with synths my rank (with required training book and sub) and I'm losing the (only craft it if you're 5 ranks higher) mentality, also repairing my crafting gear seems to reduce the chance of orbs going unstable. (just from eyeballing, don't take it as fact just yet)

As for synths I'm missing a book for, I'll say my success rate is around 80% if its my rank or 1-3 ranks lower, any lower is around 90%.

Synths that require a sub, are super easy if you're 5+ ranks above it regardless of sub, is what I found while making bronze scale mails, with my LWR being 5 ranks lower than recommended.

Synths that I'm lacking a training for AND 5 ranks lower than recommended sub. (Armored callgae) are pretty much impossible. (I was 35 and its a 35 synth)

Crafting on full moon = unstable spam, up to 5 unstables a synth on celata synths, and those are not very hard at 36 so I have no other explanation for the elemental chaos.

----------------------

Thats pretty much what I noticed lately.


Also despite the new crafting interface KICKING MAJOR ASS, the recipes are kinda screwy, if it makes more than 1 item with the mat combo, it'll prepare > hand > choose 1 of the synths > start. which is pointless, just go > recipe > select hand > start right away.

Wasted steps, but SE is starting to get this under control, and hurray for cellphone bars on equipment, now if the onscreen repair icon would list whats broken when you click on it, and the chat color for "your xxx is damaged" is changed I'd be a happy crafter.

[Bricklayer]

Re: Synthesizing

Anyone notice that sometimes it seems like the game wants you to perform rapid? This is totally anecdotal, but I've had a couple of times during local levequests where I'll fail Standard Synth multiple times in a row (on a recipe that should not be failing), then I'll switch to Rapid Synth, and it goes through for 30% progress. Back to Standard, fail. Rapid again, 30%. I wonder if it's just coincidence? Or is it some kind of anti-bot thing? Would be an interesting thing to test out, though I'm not the person to do it (getting average 15-30 minutes a day playtime lately).

[Dux]

Re: Synthesizing

I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this ... as either a collaborate "open source" project with a site to go with it, Google code/document/project, or something. Something that removes having to constantly email each other data sets lol

Can't help you on this one I don't know anything about presentation and all that jazz all I know is Tropc Thunder was a lie, there are no Panda's in Vietnam.

You know what I found really frustrating? My BSM is abyssmal. It's failing hard core and I don't understand why. I thought it may be because I was using R12 tool at R20 and so crafted myself an R17 hammer last night. Still failing.

The only thing I can think of as a source for this is because when I switched "mains" from MRD to GLA I "retalented" my points from a strict adherance to STR/DEX to more of a STR/VIT/DEX + a few MND. I cannot believe that in order to have great success in BSM that you need to dump most of your stats into STR. That would be ... that would be bad.

And when I mean failing hardcore, I do mean that in the very sense of the word in every way imaginable. In contrast, my ARM synthing is going so smooth with less points into VIT than BSM had in STR that I think BSM is broken.

I am still using the R7 BSM hammer and I have a grand total of 14 STR and I don't seem to have any problems raising my BSM rank. Whatever effect STR has on BSM it doesn't appear to be a massively contributing factor.

I also hadn't heard of this 5 ranks higher thing can somebody explain to me what it is and why it is important?

[Aeni]

Re: Synthesizing

I am still using the R7 BSM hammer and I have a grand total of 14 STR and I don't seem to have any problems raising my BSM rank. Whatever effect STR has on BSM it doesn't appear to be a massively contributing factor.

I also hadn't heard of this 5 ranks higher thing can somebody explain to me what it is and why it is important?

Here are some of the "myths" surrounding crafting. I say "myth" because SE never officially came out and explained the specific science that went into crafting their system.

-Using a tool for any recipes that you have leveled past will introduce an increasing synthesis failure trend (bold, standard, rapid) and an increasing durability loss on those failures.
-Using gear that's well above your current rank or 10 ranks below your current rank will introduce an increasing synthesis failure trend (bold, standard, rapid) and an increasing durability loss on those failures.
-Using a tool that is below 75% in repair durability will introduce an increase to synthesis failure trend (bold, standard, rapid)
-Crafting on New Moon will introduce an increase to synthesis failure trend (bold, standard, rapid)
-Constantly using only one kind of synthesis will introduce an increase to synthesis failure trend (bold, standard, rapid)
-Crafting on Full Moon will introduce an increase to high quality outcomes/yields.
-Crafting with a recipe that your tool currently outranks by more than 10 will lead to an increase in synthesis failure trends.
-Your elemental composition (i.e., resistance) has a subtle influence over particular elemental shards/crystals/clusters.

These are my own "myths" based on personal observations:

-Crafting in high traffic areas can yield to dramtically negative results.
-Crafting by associating each synthesis with a set value of time under varying conditions add stability and reliability to outcomes (i.e., using Standard on White at 50% of time elapsed, using Standard on Yellow at 33% of time elapsed, using Bold on White at 33% of time elapsed, using Bold on Yellow at 25% of time elapsed, etc.)
-Crafting with camera facing your character directly due North produces better outcomes.
-Any kind of support is better than none and affects every outcome.
-Trends can be broken by purposely running elapsed time to zero.
-Multicolor synthesizing ending in failures yielding a high amount of durability loss will usually end in an unstable element condition.
-Only a successful synthesis success can stabilize an unstable element condition.

[Dux]

Re: Synthesizing

An amusing set of myths I just hope nobody takes the majority of them seriously, alot of them seem to be a result of casual observation and as we all know that isn't the most reliable of sources.

That said a small number of them might be true, specifically damaged gear (which common sense suggests is true) and those relating to gear level vs synthesis rank or your rank vs synthesis rank, everything else seems to be highly dubious at best. Fortunatly these few aren't particularly difficult to test and would probably only need a few hundred synthesis each to prove/dis-prove. It might be worth writing them down somewhere so we can do a myth busting session in the future based on our investigations.

I am still not clear which one, if any, of those myths is this 5 levels higher myth reported by Freelancer.

[Aeni]

Re: Synthesizing

I am still not clear which one, if any, of those myths is this 5 levels higher myth reported by Freelancer.

I have not heard of that one myself. Most of the myths are heresy or based on a lot of speculation but there's a few I hold dear especially the ones I made up. Especially if you can go 6/6 on leves that you gain 600 sp from at R16. Think of it as the tapping of the foot when at bat or the fidgeting of your stance before taking the swing with your driver.

This only proves one thing: the system is heavily reliant on a lot of random number generation and despite our best efforts we are not able to predict the future outcome from a system like that.

[Dux]

Re: Synthesizing

Well we can answer some of these straight away.

-Crafting on New Moon will introduce an increase to synthesis failure trend (bold, standard, rapid)

True, Yygdrasil research proved this.

-Only a successful synthesis success can stabilize an unstable element condition.

Not true. Using the Wait command will also achieve the same result. Sometiems it happens on one wait command other times it takes multiple but it will eventually stabilise. I have done this hundreds and hundreds of times.

-Crafting with camera facing your character directly due North produces better outcomes.

Not True. Yygdrasil research proved facing direction has no impact, therefore by extention the camera position relative to your position relative to the direction you are facing will have no affect either.

The next one almost certainly not true even though I can't prove it isn't right now. From a programatic point of view it make no sense at all.

-Crafting in high traffic areas can yield to dramtically negative results.

[Aeni]

Re: Synthesizing

Using the Wait command will also achieve the same result.

My record for using wait command before I botched it without it stabilizing was 14 straight. The wait command is very unreliable especially after R15 (for just about every craft that I've experienced) and moreso after R20. Successful successes usually break the condition and if not one Wait command or two after that success and it stabilizes. Wait by itself (from my own experience) has a 20% chance of returning to stability in 1-3 successive waits and a 60% chance (or even higher) of not returning to stability even after 5 successive waits.

[Dux]

Re: Synthesizing

It is good we both agree that this particular myth is not true, Sucess is not the only way to make an unstable element go stable.

It does raise interesting questions too such as what factors influence making one better than the other and on average over a few hundred data points what is the difference between the two approaches? This was something I planned to look into at some point as well.

[Aeni]

Re: Synthesizing

It does raise interesting questions too such as what factors influence making one better than the other and on average over a few hundred data points what is the difference between the two approaches? This was something I planned to look into at some point as well.

It's my elemental affinity and the fact that I'm crafting in everything so I am using all the crystals and shards out there. I find the most unpredictable recipes are the ones that use a combination of shards/crystals and if their affinity to each other is bad to begin with and my alotment of points are not conducive to a cohesive environment then the recipe has a very (unfortunately) high risk of elemental instability. I usually find this to be the case with BSM more often than not. Let me track back to the recipes that gave me issues and report back to what the combinations was. You know things are ugly when they start pairing retarded stuff like ice and fire. wewt?

[Aeni]

Re: Synthesizing

Desynthesizing is back ...

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...Lg&hl=en#gid=0

The basic ingredient will be fish and lightning shards/crystals to get other shards/crystals. The demand for lightning shards are pretty heavy atm. No longer the useless red-headed born-out-of-wedlock crack addict HIV positive stepchild it used to be ...

(also note that if you got 5 lightning shards you can produce 12 lightning shards from a recipe ... in essence SE is both increasing the popularity of the craft and destroying shard/crystal market ... I'm worried about other future interventions into market operations now ...)

[Yygdrasil]

Re: Synthesizing

True, Yygdrasil research proved this.

Thanks for the props.

Also allow me to add to the unstable synthesis myth. Not only can a successful synth or a wait end the instability, but i've also had CRITICAL failures end it as well. I'm talking abouty 0% progess and decreses of 20+ to durability... ending almost always in a stable... (but usually red) node.

Any of the the options can end it... waiting seems to be the best option unless you have yellow/white stacked with something like fulfillment and you believe luck is on your side.

[Aeni]

Re: Synthesizing

@R12 the "easy" 1 crystal recipes give about 250-280 sp and 950 to 990 exp.

5 Lightning Shards + 1 Vongola Clam = 1 Fire Crystal

The important recipe is the one that nets you +8 lightning shards ...

4 Lightning Shards + 1 Malm Kelp = 12 Lightning Shards

Basically this boils down to Alchemy + Fishing = independence from the shard/crystal market.

I think R20 = 2 crystals, R30 = 3 crystals, R40 = 5 crystals ... at least early indications have shown this. The "expense" will be in shards and then crystals and it seems only Lightning at this point in time. There are recipes that allow you to get more crystals from 1 Lightning "seed" so again ... this is a self perpetuating system. One of the most easiest "grindable" craft in existence atm.