FFXIV Tactics: Understanding the Fatigue System

[Ziero]

Re: FFXIV Tactics: Understanding the Fatigue System

The point still stands that anyone who really "takes advantage" of this system to only ever level one class only will end up being gimped. Hardcore or casual, the best players will have to level multiple classes. If someone only ever levels a single, solitary class, they are limiting their potential and effectively gimping themselves (leveling a main with no subs in XI was just as gimp). Both Casual and Hardcore players who want a well built character will have to level multiple classes and thus casual players who want to be good will see little to no benefit to this system.

[Raydeus]

Re: FFXIV Tactics: Understanding the Fatigue System

This sucks! Lame! I'm cancelling my pre-order!




Kidding, I wasn't going to play anyway. Though I actually like the concept behind the system, specially considering I usually focus much more on skill than in levels.


Though the video doesn't say anything about the "surplus xp" I've seen mentioned before. What's that?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: FFXIV Tactics: Understanding the Fatigue System

This is all fine and dandy, but when you're expected to play the tank role in a party and suddenly you no longer get EXP, that hinders the whole party unless you decide to stick around, or if people plan ahead of time for role switching mid-battles, which I highly doubt will ever happen with PUGs.

FFXIV is not FFXI. Doesn't matter if there are FFXI players in it, many attempts to apply FFXI concepts to FFXIV are going to fail in the long run and a different community culture will be formed.

I would think that FFXIV parties would come to expect others to be able to pick up the tanking role where necessary. Since this system pushes you to level other jobs, melees are going to have to turn to Gladiator for something eventually. The system lets you change jobs on the field. Seems to me the system leaves players with very few excuses.

The only one thing that is universally frowned upon in MMORPGs are the people that level, then leave. You do that and people will remember you and not in a good way. Its not going to be a matter of "But I don't want to tank," I think if you want to party in FFXIV, you're inevitably going to have to accept you might be asked to change to healer or tank.

As always, melee classes will be a dime-a-dozen. People that just switch between melees because they don't want the responsibility of being healer or tank will begin to stick out. I think they're the ones that will be tagged as "gimp" before anyone else is.

[Balfree]

Re: FFXIV Tactics: Understanding the Fatigue System

I know that, but trends are trends...

[Ziero]

Re: FFXIV Tactics: Understanding the Fatigue System

I would think that FFXIV parties would come to expect others to be able to pick up the tanking role where necessary. Since this system pushes you to level other jobs, melees are going to have to turn to Gladiator for something eventually. The system lets you change jobs on the field. Seems to me the system leaves players with very few excuses.

Actually, this system gives people a built in excuse. They stop getting exp, they stop wanting to exp.

I think if you want to party in FFXIV, you're inevitably going to have to accept you might be asked to change to healer or tank.

As always, melee classes will be a dime-a-dozen. People that just switch between melees because they don't want the responsibility of being healer or tank will begin to stick out. I think they're the ones that will be tagged as "gimp" before anyone else is.

Which is going to suck seeing as you'll also need gear for those classes as well as skills. You'll also need to know how to play them, have the proper stat distribution to be effective in it and generally enjoy playing the class to put up with it long enough when needed. Not everyone likes playing magic jobs and the game nor the playerbase should force that on someone. I'm probably one of those people who won't have any mage skills leveled, though I'll have plenty of melee skills to choose from, and will most likely pick the ones that compliment Marauder, both offensively and defensively, the best, as that's the class I would want to play the most. Of course I'll also have choice Harvesting and Crafting classes leveled, as you'll need those to survive...financially...in XIV's game-world.

I doubt it will be as bad as you make it seem though, as even with XI there were people who didn't level mages and got along just fine, even when their other jobs were completely interchangeable.

[Aeni]

Re: FFXIV Tactics: Understanding the Fatigue System

The idea that casuals will be gimps needs to stop. Gimps will be gimps, casual or otherwise. If you are casual, you MIGHT be gimp compared to anyone that is not, IN ANY GAME, regardless of leveling systems.

I dislike the idea of limiting my choices when I'm paying for my funtimes as anyone else, but if FFXIV is not the game for you, you really just need to move on and step aside.

The idea of gimp is superfluous and changes depending on what you're talking about. However, let me say that there's a minimum level of expectation in ANY game. Are you gonna run around in Alien Swarm trying to nail the baddies with a small blow torch while you're teammates constantly get massacred? Sure, it's fun for the first 2 attempts, but it gets exceedingly annoying after a while.

You do not need to get every ability and you do not need to get a specific ability but having the freedom to think outside of the box and also feeling a bit responsible for your choices is something that I think we can all agree on to be the bare minimum and an absolute state to be playing this game. I mean, I could go around naked and ask to join groups, but is that something that I *should* be doing?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: FFXIV Tactics: Understanding the Fatigue System

Actually, this system gives people a built in excuse. They stop getting exp, they stop wanting to exp.

No, that's just a punk with shortsighted, self-serving goals. Again, they will be seen like the people that level and then leave a party in FFXI or any party-based MMO. They were better off soloing and not wasting a group's time.

And everything boils down to time. Waste the time of others and you will not be Mr. Popularity.

Which is going to suck seeing as you'll also need gear for those classes as well as skills. You'll also need to know how to play them, have the proper stat distribution to be effective in it and generally enjoy playing the class to put up with it long enough when needed. Not everyone likes playing magic jobs and the game nor the playerbase should force that on someone.

So one second you're deeply concerned about how "gimped" casual players will be - which would be a hardcore player enforcing his standard of play upon another - but now you're concerned about the standards the game or the community might impose upon a player?

The playerbase will totally force it because they can.

How many events have we all had to endure where good players were selfish assholes and played only the role they enjoyed playing while you had to suffer some idiot that couldn't play the roles you needed well? Or maybe the roles you needed didn't show up at all and someone refusd to step up and use their job because it was "retired."

Seriously, how many sucky Bards or PLDs have your had to endure because your LS leader wanted to bring his very-not-needed THF or SAM to an event? He apparently values his enjoyment over the time of the group.

And how many RDMs are expected to grin and bear those healer duties? Oh, I'd think you'd expect that of ALL OF THEM. People dont' sign up to be a healer at every event, but its expected all the same.

Or how many daggers shot out of the eyes of other players because when you were new, you lotted on an earth crystal. EXP PT loot isn't worth jack in FFXI if its not silk threats, so why do people curse and spit at your name if you lot? How is loting different from just letting it drop at random?

I mean, sure, if you're really busy with chaining that might be a problem. Otherwise? Not so much.

Whether it makes sense or not and whether we like it or not, if you want to get ahead in an MMORPG, there's something you're going to have to do that you don't want to do. And if you only want to be one kind of job, then FFXIV and FFXI are totally the wrong MMORPG for you.

There are plenty of MMORPGs out there when you pick one job and that's it. Done. Just pray you don't pick an unpopular class, because you're going to have roll an alt and start from the bottom if things don't go well. In FFXI and FFXIV, making an alt is just something people do for fun.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: FFXIV Tactics: Understanding the Fatigue System

The idea that casuals will be gimps needs to stop. Gimps will be gimps, casual or otherwise. If you are casual, you MIGHT be gimp compared to anyone that is not, IN ANY GAME, regardless of leveling systems.

I dislike the idea of limiting my choices when I'm paying for my funtimes as anyone else, but if FFXIV is not the game for you, you really just need to move on and step aside.

Well Bal, we are not allowed to have our opinion. The 14er's want us to shut up and drink the Kool-aid. Personally, I don't give a flying fart who puts up a video explaining stuff that I fully understood beforehand, I don't like the system and I don't have to. So keep your personal jabs to yourself and go get ready for the mothership.

[Etra]

Re: FFXIV Tactics: Understanding the Fatigue System

Well Bal, we are not allowed to have our opinion. The 13er's want us to shut up and drink the Kool-aid. Personally, I don't give a flying fart who puts up a video explaining stuff that I fully understood beforehand, I don't like the system and I don't have to. So keep your personal jabs to yourself and go get ready for the mothership.

Your post made me think of this: YouTube - Weird Objects on Graham Norton (The 8:30 mark. And I didn't embed it 'cause I don't want it detracting from the main post. Just saying it's what I thought of.)

In other news, you may disagree with the entire system, but I do give the guys kudos for explaining the system better than the developers (which isn't too hard considering it's SE.) You probably wouldn't see any other community for a game / developer put together such a video to try and explain things in detail for the rest of the playerbase.

[Raydeus]

Re: FFXIV Tactics: Understanding the Fatigue System

And no one wants to tell the noob what surprlus xp is and what it does or if it's just another name for the fatigue system. Even google has failed me today.

[Aeni]

Re: FFXIV Tactics: Understanding the Fatigue System

In other news, you may disagree with the entire system, but I do give the guys kudos for explaining the system better than the developers (which isn't too hard considering it's SE.) You probably wouldn't see any other community for a game / developer put together such a video to try and explain things in detail for the rest of the playerbase.

I haven't watched it, though and don't want to. If what you say is correct, then watching that video will surely make me depressed and not want to play FFXIV. I mean, if other people outside the company can do a better job than those that are gainfully employed within said company. It means that you and I have a good shot at working at a place like that as long as we know the right people who can hook us up and not necessarily by our degrees or knowledge.

Sounds suspiciously like our state government here.

[Takelli]

Re: FFXIV Tactics: Understanding the Fatigue System

Well Bal, we are not allowed to have our opinion. The 13er's want us to shut up and drink the Kool-aid. Personally, I don't give a flying fart who puts up a video explaining stuff that I fully understood beforehand, I don't like the system and I don't have to. So keep your personal jabs to yourself and go get ready for the mothership.

I agree with this. I just hope that the game isn't made so that it takes 6+ hours to gain a single level in a party.

If so, I can see this being a problem when trying to level up. Gain one level on a class a week? No thanks!

[Aeni]

Re: FFXIV Tactics: Understanding the Fatigue System

I agree with this. I just hope that the game isn't made so that it takes 6+ hours to gain a single level in a party.

If so, I can see this being a problem when trying to level up. Gain one level on a class a week? No thanks!

It's not hard to get exp ... since you can do 8 levels every 48 hours, you can theoretically gain 2-3 levels a week with a group and then another 2 levels a week crafting. At least that's the way I see it.

As for people telling others what to do or not do ... for me, the way I see it is if you're gonna get into a random group (PUG) then you'll have to at least meet expectations around you. But obviously this doesn't apply to you if you are with friends or plan on soloing. Do I agree with this concept? It is a very complicated question and I rather not get into that issue because it is heavily laden with opinions and personal preferences. I think if you're going to participate with a public group of players, then you'll have to learn to compromise and work with them. This isn't any different in real life. Unfortunately, that capitalistic concept (efficiency raises profitability) tend to get carried into an online game like FFXI way too often.

However, I do think that some players tend to play a game with too much expectations of entitlement (or they have a tendancy to exhibit that behavior) and that ruins it for me as well.

[Etra]

Re: FFXIV Tactics: Understanding the Fatigue System

I haven't watched it, though and don't want to. If what you say is correct, then watching that video will surely make me depressed and not want to play FFXIV. I mean, if other people outside the company can do a better job than those that are gainfully employed within said company. It means that you and I have a good shot at working at a place like that as long as we know the right people who can hook us up and not necessarily by our degrees or knowledge.

Sounds suspiciously like our state government here.

I'll be honest, watching the video got me a little hyped for the launch. Game is releasing in 10 days, was at work today and thought, "Meh. Maybe I shouldn't take the whole day of the 23rd off. Just go to the dentist in the morning then come back to work." (Yes, I know it releases the 22nd. But it would be easier to take a full day for the dentist than a full day and a half day.) After I watched this, I'm glad I took the whole day.

To be fair, I think it was just the kick to the face I needed that the FF community is generally much better than all the others I've experienced (and am experiencing.) Coupled with the pretty colors, graphs, and sexy monotone voice, it did hype me some. Otherwise, the information they presented was exactly what was said in interviews and letters from the director. Nothing new, really.

Also, as for getting hooked up with SE, I'll keep my mouth shut about that. -_-;; Honestly, it frustrates me a bit because of my own degree.

[Malacite]

Re: FFXIV Tactics: Understanding the Fatigue System

My biggest gripe now (cause ya gotta bitch about something right?) is the fact that Abyssea is so. fucking. fun!

This. I was all set to leave XI for XIV, but no, they add to go and make Abyssea, and even go so far as to make AF3 unbelievably amazing.