SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

[TheGrandMom]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

Will those handful of stat points matter in any meaningful way? I sincerely doubt it, but that has never stopped people from discriminating.

Like TGM, I was sometimes put in the position of defending people who had made "sub-optimal" race/job choices on linkshell applications, and it's neither fun nor necessary.

S-E is dropping the ball here big time. Let people look like whatever they want, and play how they want, without handing them a laundry list of BS social baggage to go with it.

Yes, trying to get a mass of people to see beyond their blind prejudice is not an easy job....in fact, it's damn near impossible. I did it a few times but the barbs were still slung by some and the person I got in the shell usually left. It's not fun for the people that play the way they want or the people that support them.

[Aeni]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

S-E is dropping the ball here big time. Let people look like whatever they want, and play how they want, without handing them a laundry list of BS social baggage to go with it.

Even if SE did as you have stated it wouldn't stop people from being ... well, let's just say that some people like their squares with more angles than it originally came with.

In my guild in WoW our philosophy was pretty much ... we're not going to judge you on your stats, your gear or your social standings (whatever that was, I still scratch my head over that as if it was necessary to state that) We gladly took all who (a) know how to cooperate and (b) could communicate effectively. It was a simple way of running things because we all realize that everyone is teachable and it's up to the person if he/she wants to learn. We didn't exclude people because of their perceived incompetance ... you wouldn't know that unless you spent time with that person.

Sadly, we were just one guild out of the millions that did things slightly differently. We were all casual hardcore players (Casual in that we generally only logged on once a week and it was only for raiding and hardcore in that we were serious about how we spent that 3 hours and was careful not to waste time and force people to stay behind if they couldn't stay on longer) We were very successful for our unconventional ways of doing things and I kind of wanted to bring that same spirit into FFXIV and maybe try to make a difference and change the way things are done. Not really holding my breath on that one.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

I hope you succeed, people need to be judged on their performance first.

Yes, there will always be discrimination but they shouldn't give it a helping hand by starting the races off unequal. It seems they want everyone to be on a more equal level with their asinine exp system, so why do this then?

Hubby and I were talking about FFXI and race issues earlier. He was a Taru melée/tank and a Galka mage. "You don't have enough HP to tank." You don't have enough MP to heal." "You don't have enough str to be an effective melée." etc. Do we really want to be hearing that shit again?

[Kailea]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

The problem is not the game but the people, really in FFXI that was the only real issue with races was HP/MP for Taru/Galka

any other "issues" where nothing more then people being ridiculous

[TheGrandMom]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

And why should SE load the gun for people when they can help diffuse the situation?

[Takelli]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

And why should SE load the gun for people when they can help diffuse the situation?

Something that could help this would be if SE put something out saying that any race can play any class...

[DakAttack]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

Sadly, we were just one guild out of the millions that did things slightly differently. We were all casual hardcore players (Casual in that we generally only logged on once a week and it was only for raiding and hardcore in that we were serious about how we spent that 3 hours and was careful not to waste time and force people to stay behind if they couldn't stay on longer) We were very successful for our unconventional ways of doing things and I kind of wanted to bring that same spirit into FFXIV and maybe try to make a difference and change the way things are done. Not really holding my breath on that one.

And what server did your guild plan on playing on...?

[ShadowHolyFlyingDragon]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

To help show how ridiculous it was, I played Galka BLM for over a year in my SEA/Dyna LS and our best BLM was a Taru with all the bells and whistles. (Sorc Ring, obi, +7mab ear, Morrigan's)

I was able to finally match up -pretty close- to him in stats/mertis/gear (no morrigan's stuff.) After all was said and done, once when we were both running to Limbus, we both nuked a squid with Blizz 3. He did 1090 damage. I managed around 1011 damage as a Galka. He had about 1200 MP, I had 800.

That's a 79 damage difference and 400 mp. That's 1 1/2 costs worth of an AM2. Granted, I had about 300HP more than he did, which is likely about one nice good hit more than what he could take from an IT.

Our racial stats were both as far as the east is from the west. And yet, with near identical set-ups, the Taru won out by a small margin that's really not all that groundbreaking.

The problem, as everyone's mentioned, is the PERPETUATION OF IGNORANCE in "Valkurm Dunes"-esque types of in-game settings.... when everyone's trying to figure out what the hell the other guy is doin and no one realy knows.

Everyone knows what that conversation is like...

Party Leader/Elv Tank: "Dude, you can't be a Galka WHM with no sub. Go FKN CHANGE NOOB"
Some Humble Player: "But I like Galka's and besides I'm going to be a MNK later anyway. I just need Sneak/Invis from WHM."
Party Leader: "OMFG we're making 1.5k an hour cuz you have to /heal!!!!"
Humble Player on BRD: "No, we're making 1.5k an hour because the GD RDM keeps pulling IT Gobs and we're only lvl 12."
Party Leader: "GDI, this party sux. A F K ......................."
BallzRDM: "INCOMING <CALL8> GOBLIN LEACHER. I CASTD DIA GUYS LOL"

[Icemage]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

And why should SE load the gun for people when they can help diffuse the situation?

Precisely. It's not that people won't find reasons to be douchebags anyway; if people are idiots, they'll continue to be so. But handing them a flimsy excuse so they can't be called out on it? That's pure unadulterated idiocy, especially over something so inconsequential.

I wasn't impressed with the FFXIV beta even before this change, but it's even less appealing now because it's becoming increasingly obvious that Square-Enix hasn't learned from prior mistakes and seems perfectly willing to allow players to continue to be abnormally stupid when interacting with one another.


Icemage

[Yellow Mage]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

In defense of the guy who ok'd the differences in racial stats. It did sorta get better in FFXI . . . after about five years or so . . .

[Kailea]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

In defense of the guy who ok'd the differences in racial stats. It did sorta get better in FFXI . . . after about five years or so . . .

its not that "it" got better, it was that less people believed in the old BS about race/class

[Aeni]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

And what server did your guild plan on playing on...?

Tentatively on Lindblum but if it gets so crowded that it has stability issues (if anyone remembers Midgardsormr ... hahahahaha ... sigh) then we may choose to go to another, maybe newer and less populated server. Pulling teeth convincing a few of them to make the leap to FF because some of them are wary of this one ... they hated FF11 (well, they had slightly different issues on a different server from where I was and they had to endure "discrimination" by JP players because they were NA)

So far there's a few of them that are interested and it currently stands at about 1/2 the guild and a few others from other guilds which we liked (they were friendly and yet good at what they did) Even if we end up being in different LS on the same server I'll gladly do things with you all.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

it was that less people believed in the old BS about race/class

That was the "it" I was referring to.

[Etra]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

Tentatively on Lindblum but if it gets so crowded that it has stability issues (if anyone remembers Midgardsormr ... hahahahaha ... sigh) then we may choose to go to another, maybe newer and less populated server. Pulling teeth convincing a few of them to make the leap to FF because some of them are wary of this one ... they hated FF11 (well, they had slightly different issues on a different server from where I was and they had to endure "discrimination" by JP players because they were NA)

So far there's a few of them that are interested and it currently stands at about 1/2 the guild and a few others from other guilds which we liked (they were friendly and yet good at what they did) Even if we end up being in different LS on the same server I'll gladly do things with you all.

{wants to join LS}
...{really isn't that bitchy. honest}

[Ziero]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

That never made sense to me anyway that Elvaan were stronger than Galka. You look at how beefy Galka are and tell me Elves are stronger... yeah OK then. And they still have roughly the same physique in XIV, but they're weaker now?

...except they're still the second strongest race...wtf are you smoking?

They can't even get the magical elvaan right, either. The sun elves have 1 less INT, but 3 more PIE. Well WTF is with that? Who in their right mind is going to take a 3 point hit to magic accuracy for 1 more point of offense?

...you do realize you're bitching about a 3 point difference in base stats right?

And that's my point. Rather than tweaking them for optimal stats one way or the other, a small handful are optimized while the rest are all half-assed semi-balanced. They only go halfway into 1 extreme, thus leaving you weak all around as you can't even take advantage of your own supposed strengths (High INT low PIE, High STR low DEX)

...again, you do realize that at any time during the game you can completely rearrange your stats right? I mean, I don't know if you realize this, but being able to not only change your job at any time, but to completely redistribute your stats at the drop of a hat is a big freakin deal. Min/Maxing doesn't mean as much in a world where one second your a Melee tank and the next you're a magical DD. This isn't even taking into consideration the concepts of diminishing returns or the fact that as a stat grows higher it becomes more expensive to increase, giving people a reason to spread their stat growth around. Hell, we don't even know if pumping everything into one stat will even be the best way to go at this point since none of the math has even been started yet. All you have to go by is observational evidence...which to anyone who knows anything, means nothing in the long run.

The big difference here is that Demon's Souls doesn't dictate how you look based on your starting class (aside from defining your starting gear, which can be changed).

The big difference is, in Demon's Souls, it was a pain in the ass and exorbitantly expensive to redistribute stats. In XIV you can literally do it any time you wish. Despite some jobs starting with massive stat differences, jobs in that game were quite meaningless as anyone could be anything despite starting stats.

You seem more upset over the notion that people will judge races based on their stats over the actual differences within the stats themselves (like Mal). But even if all races were exactly the same I guarantee you people would still swear up and down that certain races were better at certain things. I know this is the case because I've seen it happen in other games, two different choices with exactly the same stats and people still swear there's a difference between them.

In XI, it was only an issue because people were ignorant. They still are ignorant, but this time around we have people willing and able to do the maths right from the start. That ignorance won't have a leg to stand on so when someone makes a stupid claim you can outright call them stupid.

Choosing a race should be a purely aesthetic decision

It is.

ITT: Mountains out of molehills.