SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

[Karinya]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

Ya rly, what makes you think 3 points of a base stat aren't going to be just as ignorable in FFXIV as they are in FFXI? Level (or the equivalent), gear and player skill, not necessarily in that order, are going to dominate the effect of base stats.

The only stat that ends up even arguably making a significant race difference in FFXI is max HP, and then only for a few fights.

[Etra]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

Has anyone found any information if, for example, Lalafell will have more MP but less HP compared to Miqo'te?

[jenova_9]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

dont worry at least ya'll don't have to play FFXIV like this person who posted what they're seeing:

http://a.imageshack.us/img840/4651/ffxivlol.jpg

[Icemage]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

Ya rly, what makes you think 3 points of a base stat aren't going to be just as ignorable in FFXIV as they are in FFXI? Level (or the equivalent), gear and player skill, not necessarily in that order, are going to dominate the effect of base stats.

The only stat that ends up even arguably making a significant race difference in FFXI is max HP, and then only for a few fights.

That begs the question, though. If the difference is insignificant, why have any differences at all?


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

That begs the question, though. If the difference is insignificant, why have any differences at all?


Icemage

I think that would be because there are five races and two factions for each one? There have to be some differences or there's no point in having different races. We'd just have humans.

FFXI did have racial advantages, they just weren't that pronounced. Elvaan PLD and DRK and Galka WHMs abusing the hell out of HP to MP swap gear were about the biggest differences. Mithra had the highest potential ranged accuracy and QD accuracy. Tarus did have the largest base MP and INT.

But there was also the gear, how you used it and how played your job. Being the "best" race and having the most tricked out character didn't mean anything if you didn't know how to use your advantages.

[Icemage]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

I think that would be because there are five races and two factions for each one? There have to be some differences or there's no point in having different races. We'd just have humans.

Appearances? Pretty important when you're looking at hundreds of hours+ invested into a character.

FFXI did have racial advantages, they just weren't that pronounced. Elvaan PLD and DRK and Galka WHMs abusing the hell out of HP to MP swap gear were about the biggest differences. Mithra had the highest potential ranged accuracy and QD accuracy. Tarus did have the largest base MP and INT.

But there was also the gear, how you used it and how played your job. Being the "best" race and having the most tricked out character didn't mean anything if you didn't know how to use your advantages.

There's so much gear in FFXI that pretty much everyone does well at every job (aside from Tarutaru tanks on a small number of NMs). Everything else is more or less meaningless because you can just compensate with gear.

I don't think influencing players to choose a race they don't like the aesthetics of just for the sake of different stats is a particularly bright idea. It wasn't a good idea in FFXI, and it's still not a good idea now. All it did was cause people to have idiotic preconceived notions about how good/bad race/job combinations were and cause a lot of unnecessary prejudice against anyone who didn't play the "best" combinations. That's not to say the stat differences weren't noticeable, but the level of in-game bigotry in FFXI is all out of proportion to the amount of performance difference, and I can only facepalm at Square-Enix's willingness to repeat that mistake.


Icemage

[TheGrandMom]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

I don't think influencing players to choose a race they don't like the aesthetics of just for the sake of different stats is a particularly bright idea. It wasn't a good idea in FFXI, and it's still not a good idea now. All it did was cause people to have idiotic preconceived notions about how good/bad race/job combinations were and cause a lot of unnecessary prejudice against anyone who didn't play the "best" combinations. That's not to say the stat differences weren't noticeable, but the level of in-game bigotry in FFXI is all out of proportion to the amount of performance difference, and I can only facepalm at Square-Enix's willingness to repeat that mistake.

Agreed. I would have liked to see all races with the same base stats and then individual customization with no prejudice to race. They want us to be equal so much that they've neutered the exp system but yet something like this, that would keep everyone on an equal even base in the beginning, is all screwy. I don't even think SE knows what the f**k they are doing anymore. It's like you have a dozen chefs cooking one dish...in the end it just isn't as good as it could have been.

[Kailea]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

how about playing the game and see if the stats will even matter in the long run (which they wont) before bitching so much about it? Good god -.- starting stats did not really matter in FFXI and they wont matter in FFXIV

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

Appearances? Pretty important when you're looking at hundreds of hours+ invested into a character.

So dat mod your character if you feel the need. Its what people did in FFXI when they chose a race for its stats. You seem to imply that SE is "forcing" you to pick a race you might not want when that is not the case at all.

Its the knowledge of the stat balance that seems to influence you, to say nothing of a desire to play efficiently out the gate. You don't even know the stat curve to max level is yet, though. It has more to do with how you'd react that what SE is doing.

[Icemage]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

So dat mod your character if you feel the need. Its what people did in FFXI when they chose a race for its stats. You seem to imply that SE is "forcing" you to pick a race you might not want when that is not the case at all.

Cold comfort for those who play on consoles. Not everyone has access to DAT modification. Or knows about it. Or wants to do it.

Its the knowledge of the stat balance that seems to influence you, to say nothing of a desire to play efficiently out the gate. You don't even know the stat curve to max level is yet, though. It has more to do with how you'd react that what SE is doing.

The stat modifiers could be meaningless but it would still cause people to form biases around what's "best". That's what gamers do, in every game. "Oh, you're playing THAT combination? What a n00b!"

I don't see the point in stacking the deck against particular players, especially when players DO have the ability to modify stat distribution, just because they happen to like how a particular avatar looks.

All the uneven stat distribution does is give people another excuse to be prejudiced (it doesn't matter if their view is justified or not, as the damage is already done at that point).


Icemage

[Neomage]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

Normally I wouldn't even glance at different races having different stats, and while I find it a little annoying I don't really think the EXP fatigue is a big deal. However, when they combine these two, making players play a lot of different classes AND making some races better at certain classes than others, it just makes me go "Whuh?!?"

I'm wondering what Piety will do. If it's not a huge deal, I kinda like the look of the Duskwright Elzen, since they have pretty good magic stats while not completely bombing physically like the Lalafel

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

The stat modifiers could be meaningless but it would still cause people to form biases around what's "best". That's what gamers do, in every game. "Oh, you're playing THAT combination? What a n00b!"

And your point is?

People will do that no matter what. Its an MMORPG. They're going to be elitist pricks about something. If its not your race, it will be your job, your gear or your DPS. They will find a way to rain on your parade, There will be a "correct" way and elitism to go with it. There is no avoiding that, so there's not really much reason to worry about bias.

I mean we swear up and down race doesn't matter in FFXI... until the discussion steers toward endgame PLD tanking and KC DRKs. Then it actually seems to matter, if only because of the HP advantages of being Galka, Hume or Elvaan over being Taru or Mithra.

I think if you're going to question this stat spread at all, I would question it by faction more than I would race. I mean, Highlanders vs. Midlanders is the only practical set. People who live and work on the mountainside would be a bit more tough and stronger than some guys that do nothing but live on flat land.

I don't know why Moon Miqo'te would be disadvantaged in Agility, though. One would think being nocturnal would actually make you more agile and dexterous, not less.

I can't really discern why Dune Lalafell would be weaker than Plains Lalafell, they're more inclined to harvesting just as much as I'd imagine Dunes Lalafell likely are to fishing.

In fact, I'm still missing the importance of faction here. Its got to be something more than stats and selectable skins for characters. I would hope it would have affected how you gain fame and where you start out. I realize a traditional faction system in the vein of EQ or Elder Scrolls would be too tedious, but there's gotta be a bigger reason. I mean, you even have gods to align with here.

[Malacite]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

how about playing the game and see if the stats will even matter in the long run (which they wont) before bitching so much about it? Good god -.- starting stats did not really matter in FFXI and they wont matter in FFXIV

Did you not pay attention to your own character's performance or what? So far I've noticed every point of STR increases my damage. Not a whole hell of a lot, but it certainly impacts it far more directly than the 4:1 ratio in XI. I would have preferred they just kept everyone on the same base starting stats so you can just pick whatever race & gender you like.


It's an MMO, which means party play, which means I want to optimize for whatever role(s) I'm going to be doing. I don't need "Balanced" stats, that's for solo play.

[Raydeus]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

Everyone here knows MMORPG players.

The moment one race has even a 0.0000001% performance increase due to starting stats the moment that race becomes "the right one for X job" and nothing will convince them otherwise.

Even if they pretend to accept the "starting stats don't mean anything" and "you can compensate with gear" arguments, the lack of those few stat points never dissapears from their minds.

That nagging feeling of "I could do so much better with those extra 4 STR" will always be there, in the back of their heads, waiting for the moment to strike.

No one can escape.






PS >

Ohohohohoho~

[Aeni]

Re: SE royally screwed up racial stats wow...

A friend and I noticed that there is DR (diminishing returns) on stat stacking ... just an FYI. I think SE is aware of the issue and this may be one way they will punish players looking to get ahead on just a single stat alone. Not sure how steep the curve becomes and at what point, but even at level 5 w/o spending any point and then dropping all into just one stat, you start seeing the cost go from 1 point for 1 stat point to 2 points for 1 stat point.