Good argument for EXP handicap

[Takelli]

Re: Good argument for EXP handicap

Well I suppose everything will be pretty shitty if you go into it being a negative nancy.

Just read TGMS post. It pretty much explains what the hell I just said in a better way than what I said. I'm starting to grow tired with arguing with all the people who think this move was a great idea by SE.

---------- Post added at 04:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:06 PM ----------

*too much to bother to read*

Look, apparently we don't fucking agree with one another. So leave me to what I think, and I will leave you to what you want to think about this damn system.

You think its the GREATEST thing in the world, where as I think they could have done something better such as a rested exp system.

[MrMageo]

Re: Good argument for EXP handicap

let me sum it up for you then

CASUAL PLAYERS MAKE THEM MONEY, HARDCORE PLAYERS DO NOT. (READ hundreds banned because of item dupping in Salvage, BG goes nuts because all "THE GOOD" players are gone.....No one cares)

Casual Players leave games of they find the can not compete on a level playing field, this levels the field. You can think what you want, but you are wrong.

[Nandito]

Re: Good argument for EXP handicap

Meh, after reading so many crackpot theories and different translations of the surplus explanation... I really don't care anymore.

I was going to level multiple jobs in the first place. Woo, infinite power is mine!

[Takelli]

Re: Good argument for EXP handicap

let me sum it up for you then

CASUAL PLAYERS MAKE THEM MONEY, HARDCORE PLAYERS DO NOT. (READ hundreds banned because of item dupping in Salvage, BG goes nuts because all "THE GOOD" players are gone.....No one cares)

Casual Players leave games of they find the can not compete on a level playing field, this levels the field. You can think what you want, but you are wrong.

I already said we should stop, so stop posting god damn it. I'm fucking tired of arguing, and fucking tired of you thinking you are right 95% of the fucking time!

[Absentia]

Re: Good argument for EXP handicap

Just read TGMS post. It pretty much explains what the hell I just said in a better way than what I said. I'm starting to grow tired with arguing with all the people who think this move was a great idea.

I have some reservations too, but I'm not going to sit here and moan about what they're doing when I haven't even been able to experience it myself. As was stated, they will be adjusting the system, so what's there isn't exactly set in stone.

Until I'm able to hop on for a long enough period to see how the exp debuff affects me, I will not bash it.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Good argument for EXP handicap

let me sum it up for you then

CASUAL PLAYERS MAKE THEM MONEY, HARDCORE PLAYERS DO NOT. (READ hundreds banned because of item dupping in Salvage, BG goes nuts because all "THE GOOD" players are gone.....No one cares)

Casual Players leave games of they find the can not compete on a level playing field, this levels the field. You can think what you want, but you are wrong.

Oh yes us hardcore players that leveled MULTIPLE JOBS ON MULTIPLE CHARACTERS FOR 6+ YEARS made SE absolutely no money. Some of us even had multiple accounts, at one time I had 3 and was paying SE almost $50 a month for over 2 years.

---------- Post added at 03:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 PM ----------

I have some reservations too, but I'm not going to sit here and moan about what they're doing when I haven't even been able to experience it myself. As was stated, they will be adjusting the system, so what's there isn't exactly set in stone.

Until I'm able to hop on for a long enough period to see how the exp debuff affects me, I will not bash it.

And do you know why I'm concerned? Because I'm an FF fangirl....hell I'm an SE fangirl. I love FF...I have damn near every game on every system from Japan, Europe, and the US. (I also have an ass load of Squaresoft/SE games and still hold a lot of faith in the brand.) I want it to succeed and I feel they are shooting themselves in the foot. This is NOT a good thing as evidenced by the huge public outcry in the US, UK, and Japan.

[Takelli]

Re: Good argument for EXP handicap

Until I'm able to hop on for a long enough period to see how the exp debuff affects me, I will not bash it.

Then why are you sitting here, arguing against us that it was a good idea then? Why not wait until you can see the system working until you try to defend it?

[Absentia]

Re: Good argument for EXP handicap

Then why are you sitting here, arguing against us that it was a good idea then? Why not wait until you can see the system working until you try to defend it?

I think you need to re-read my posts. I never once said it was absolutely good. I said that I felt better about what was coming, after seeing 2 different perspectives. That doesn't mean that I still don't have some worries, but as I stated in my last post, I will not bash it.

I think you're referring to Mr. Mageo, sillybeans.

[Takelli]

Re: Good argument for EXP handicap

I think you need to re-read my posts. I never once said it was absolutely good. I said that I felt better about what was coming, after seeing 2 different perspectives. That doesn't mean that I still don't have some worries, but as I stated in my last post, I will not bash it.

I think you're referring to Mr. Mageo, sillybeans.

I must have mis read what you said. I thought I saw you defending it once in a post back there, but I guess not. oh well.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Good argument for EXP handicap

This is NOT a good thing as evidenced by the huge public outcry in the US, UK, and Japan.

More or less, it seems like the complaint (at least on an FFXI level) is that people are complaining that they have to level their subjobs sooner than later. You and I would jump all over someone that didn't level their subs, at least in terms of forums. In game we would roll our eyes at people with underleveled subs and lament that we had to carry their sorry asses through the party. Sometimes that sorry ass is the only healer or tank you could find.

And maybe this is just my crazy thoughts, but isn't it possible there's an increasing curve to how much time you can spend levelling each job? That the fatigue diminishes with progress by level? I mean, all these jobs have to cap out eventually. People are probably restricted to a certain level of play right now, but i doubt when you hit high levels they would really keep it that way.

Again, I think this just a bunch of PC gamers spazzing about things they don't really understand. And PC gamers spazzing about things should come as a surprise to no one.

[Malacite]

Re: Good argument for EXP handicap

Surplus EXP + 48 hour wait on guild leves = bullshit.

[MrMageo]

Re: Good argument for EXP handicap

Oh yes us hardcore players that leveled MULTIPLE JOBS ON MULTIPLE CHARACTERS FOR 6+ YEARS made SE absolutely no money. Some of us even had multiple accounts, at one time I had 3 and was paying SE almost $50 a month for over 2 years.

And I know 5 people (close friends who have since left the game) that had 1 leveled, between the 6 of us that is 72$ over a month over a few years, with only 1 job each, that is 12 more dollars than you. Now SE is out 60 dollars because they got fed up of not being able to keep up with the newer stuff.

The point is, there are thousands more casual people than those who are hardcore and the longer those people play and feel like they are in the game, the more money SE makes, it doesn't matter if you an every other hard core gamer had 10 accounts maxed characters, you still would pale in domestic size of the casual gamers. It is them who fun the MMO markets, it is them that the majority of MMO games a geared towards.

This is FACT, I don't care if you have 50 accounts, there are still more people who will play casually than you.

[Aeni]

Re: Good argument for EXP handicap

1.) Mind numbing dailies and 3-hour fishing expeditions to make sure the raid was good on buffs, since half the people were too lazy to do this on their own (forcing players to do multiple roles fixes this as some people including myself will probably take a gathering role to lessen to burden on the guild/raid and may be a fun way to relieve stress).

I only fished for half an hour in WG and got a good stack of fish feasts for the raids. Honestly, you don't even use more than 70% of it ... this guy sounds like he's just whining.

2.) Canceled raids because 3 people were to trashed to show up and 25 were needed for raid and they could not be replaced due to role and gearing issues (multiple roles means multiple tanks, healers, hybrids, etc… plus FF is a lot friendlier than WoW since people don’t need to be in the same guild to work together as the gearing structure is totally different and slightly more intuitive).

We pushed to Queen Lanathiel in one night with just 8 players in a 10 man raid ... I suppose skill plays heavily here but in 25s you're actually given a more lenient hand unless the majority of players are just fail boat.

3.) The strong and smart carrying the weak and useless (it really sucks to build something awesome only to have a small group of people only want to push ICC beyond the point of fail and totally neglect the fact that the truly great players were working through the content to get the rarest achievements and items- in FF you can simply party with the 10 people that do 90% of the work anyways and as for the other 15, well you need not carry the extra weight or worry about too few being on and there are no guild rivalries so you can play with who you want)

It's always the case and unless you're as skill heavy as Afterlife and Arathian Knights were on my server, you should always expect to be carrying a few people who lack the necessary skill to participate in hard modes. Except this guy is talking about a non-HM encounter which means that the fault lies with leaders in not explaining things properly and taking time to educate their members. I ran a guild and a successful one at that and we maintained a spot in the top 25 rankings on my server (Horde & Alliance data combined, about 400 guilds?) as far as progression was concerned. Were we hard core? I don't know ... we only raided 4 hours a week ... tops.

[MrMageo]

Re: Good argument for EXP handicap

WoW was a far easier game to pull people through though. 10 mans could be done with as low as 6 (or at least we did) 25 mans could be done with under 20 plenty of room to make ends meet. thats 4-5 slots in either that can be used with fillers.

FFXI however required a blend of jobs for just about any event. It also required full attention levels of those people. It also required some knowledge about the job you were playing. It also required sacrafice to play another class.

The thing I do not like about this WoW generalization is the character swap. So what if you had 3 toons, I have one with 3 jobs, each job has several sets of gear, on one. this means I have to conserve inventory to min/max my potential. It means you have to know formula even as basic as 2STR = 1 ATK. So you can make the best of your inv. Let alone having 5-6 classes.

I think it is good as it means everyone should know 2-3 classes as they level, as opposed to speed leveling the last 2 and being rejects at endgame.

Just my 2 cents.

[hexx]

Re: Good argument for EXP handicap

Meh, for all we know this system is only in place until the PS3 version comes out. In a way it makes sense, this way those who are restricted to only playing FFXIV on PS3 wont be too far behind those who started on PC.


Found this on another forum I hang at:

Once again, we would like to thank you all for your participation and support during the Closed Beta. We will continue to take your valuable feedback into consideration as we develop the game during Open Beta and even beyond the official release.

Now I would like to take a moment to respond to the many questions and opinions regarding the manner in and rates at which experience and skill points are obtained in Beta 3.

Firstly, the concept for FINAL FANTASY XIV was to design a system of character progression that offers meaningful advancement for those with limited time to dedicate to playing. We did not want to create a game that forced people to play for hours on end to see their efforts rewarded. To that end, in addition to the Guardian's Aspect and guildleve systems, we introduced a means of apportioning swifter advancement to shorter periods of play.

In order to achieve this balance, we calculated a value for the amount of skill or experience points that could be earned in a one-hour period. This theoretical value represents an hour spent engaged solely in combat, levequests, or any other activities that earn skill or experience points, and sets a threshold delimiting how many of these points can be earned in a period of play.

Based on this, we have implemented a “threshold value” concept. These thresholds are regulated by a one-week timer that begins counting down the instant you earn skill/experience points. After a week has passed, the thresholds will reset, and the moment skill/experience points are earned again, the timer begins counting down anew.

For the first eight thresholds during this week-long period, players will receive skill/experience points at the maximum rate possible. The actual amount of time spent reaching these thresholds is not significant. That is to say, a player who exceeds eight hours of gameplay will still be rewarded the maximum amount of skill/experience points, so long as the total amount earned is below the eighth threshold value. For the subsequent seven thresholds, players will earn skill/experience points at a gradually decreasing rate, eventually reaching a rate of zero.

It is worth noting, however, that the reduced rate will also gradually recover while players are engaged in activities that do not yield skill/experience points. In this manner, it is possible for the threshold value to reset completely, even before the completion of the one-week timer.

Any skill points earned in excess of the threshold maximum—that is, at a rate of zero—will be stored as "bonus skill points." These are specific to each class, so players limited to earning bonus skill points still have the freedom to change classes and begin earning skill points again at the maximum rate, allowing their reduced skill rates to recover in the meantime.

The experience point threshold, however, is unrelated to class, and switching classes will have no effect on the decreasing rate of earnable experience.

This is how the progression system currently works.

This system was not introduced in Beta 3, but has been in place since the beginning of beta testing. There are several reasons why many people believe that these features were only recently implemented:

- Leading into Beta 3, operation hours were extended, making it possible to play more often during the span of a week.
- To encourage players to form guidleve parties in Beta 3, skill and experience point rewards for guildleves were significantly increased.
- The process that reduced the amount of skill/experience points awarded for weak enemies attacking in groups was unintentionally removed at the start of Beta 3. (This issue has been addressed.)

That last reason in particular was the biggest cause for players running up against the threshold penalty, with characters earning far more skill/experience points than we anticipated. We also faced an issue where we were simultaneously unable to adjust the amount earned for guildleves as well as the effects of crossing each threshold.

We sincerely apologize for the lack of explanation and our failure to make the necessary adjustments in the game.

The threshold values are being reexamined, and we plan to further adjust the different rates of earnable points based on feedback from our testers. One of the top issues we are looking at right now is fixing the excessively rapid drop after crossing the eighth threshold. We also plan to improve experience point reduction rates, even more so than for skill points, considering the threshold is unaffected when changing class.

At the very least, we can promise that players won't be running into the threshold penalty in the same short time span as they did in the beginning of Beta 3.

We would like to take this opportunity to also explain the following issues.

The diminishing results experienced during gathering are a function related to that class alone, and have no connection to this progression system. We are in the process of adjusting this system, and plan to make changes based on tester feedback.

We are currently in the process of considering the means in which bonus skill points can be used. There have been suggestions for various types of incentives, but as encouraging people to play with that in mind defeats the purpose of this threshold system, we will be examining this issue very carefully.

These are not the only adjustments we have planned for Open Beta. As mentioned previously, we are looking into increasing the amount of skill points earned when fighting in a party, and we look forward to seeing your input on these changes.

Last of all, I would like to apologize for the delay in releasing a developer's comment due to my recent attendance to Gamescom. The article based on my interview during that trip, coupled with conjecture, outdated information, and some misunderstandings on overseas websites, only added to the confusion. In the future, I hope to avoid similar problems by responding directly through official developer's comments as often as possible. Thank you for your understanding.

See you in the Open Beta Testing!

FINAL FANTASY XIV Director
Nobuaki Komoto