FFXIV Storyline revealed!

[fairyoracle75]

Re: FFXIV Storyline revealed!

Ah Ziero I have read the official site and I just reread it to make sure I wasn't wrong. The difference is that you want to believe that this game will be a copy of FFXI so you are reading what I am and applying it in a way that will support your view. The problem is the information isn't clear-cut enough to absolutely make your view the only view.

Let me show you examples from the official site that show it doesn't say exactly what you are asserting:

You said:

In FFXI, you, as an "Adventurer" were a mercenary. You weren't affiliated with your nation past starting there and having access to select missions. And you could change your home nation, and the missions you had access to at any time. "Adventurer" was just a pretty word for "mercenary" as you would go around taking any and all jobs you could for money and rewards.

The difference you are sitting the lore concept and game mechanics . This idea concept of the lore was, according to the FFXI official game site:

Still, the three great nations continued to mistrust one another.
rather than dispatching their own forces to
deal with the beastmen threat,
they began to employ a new generation of independent youth to
deal with the situation on an individual level.

These stalwart people are called adventurers.
They are intrepid souls who follow their own beliefs,
moving freely from city to city in spite of their own national allegiances.
Truly, it is the dawn of a new era in Vana'diel history.

I will agree with you that from a lore aspect what has been released we can see a lot of similiarity but that doesn't mean every aspect of the game will copy FFXI. You and the others that believe it is a simple reskin of FFXI seem to only site similiarities in order to try to prove that your view is the only correct view. You ignore differences.

My arguement is that just because some similiarites exist does not mean the entire game is exactly the same. Can you disprove all of the statements from developers who have far more information than the scant information we have that say its different? No the only thing you can do is say "I don't trust it will be different because all of the races are so similiar so I don't believe the developers are saying."

Let me me compare Adventurers in FFXI with what we absolutely know about Adventurers in FFXIV. I will not touch speculation at this point only fact.

In FFXI is is a big contradiction with this lore concept idea on the site and the actual mechanics of FFXI and what the in game NPC and missions tell us which I'll try to explain better than I did in the first post.

Only basing your concept of adventurers on the vague statement on the website we could view Adventuers as Mecenary.
You state the fact that we can change national affiliations as a support that Adventurers are actually mercenaries which isn't a "true" definition of mercenary. This is game mechanics at work not lore. When you change allies lore wise its as if you never served another nation when you change nations. There is nowhere in game you'll find an NPC mention your past working for the government of another nation.

If you started in say San d'Orian the knights there at the mog house tell you this is the residential district and act like you being in San d'Oria and are in essence a citizen of that nation. If later you go and talk to those NPCs after you change alligence to Bastok those same knights call you "foreigner". They never call you "Mercenary" or say "you traitor who once worked for our nation and now are working for Bastok". In fact all the NPC in Sandy call you a "Bastoker" and say you live in or hail from Bastok. So though the game mechanics support you equating Adventurers as mercenary the in game dialogue doesn't. When you restart the missions you kill the Shadow Lord all over again and act as an ambassdor of the nation you are currently Allied with.

Please site one NPC or cut scene and not game mechanics to prove in lore we are simulataniously at any time working for more than one nation at once. Game mechanics allowing you to switch nations does not make us mercenaries lore wise.

Popular culture paints mercenaries and indenpendant individuals that travel and do jobs for different people. This is evidently the tack you are taking from what I can understand from you saying this:

In FFXI, you, as an "Adventurer" were a mercenary. You weren't affiliated with your nation past starting there and having access to select missions.

9 times out of 10 you didn't go to the Embassy or "capital" for quests either, you took them from people on the street who cried for help. The only difference is in FFXIV, these people who need help will offer their jobs to a merc company and we go there instead for easy access. Kinda like Assaults, just for the entire game.

As you can see a mercenary is "a professional soldier" This is a "Sword for Hire" which isn't a "true mercenary" who is a professional soldier that will work for any army. A sword for hire can do mercenary work but will do jobs for anyone including private citizens and may or may not have training as a professional soldier.

Adventurers meet this definiton more than they do that of mercenaries. They are swords for hire that work alternately as mercenaries/soldiers, ambassadors and even odd jobs.

I'm thinking of mercenary in the truest from of the definition which is:

A mercenary is a professional soldier hired by a foreign army, as opposed to a soldier enlisted in the armed forces of the sovereign state of which he is a citizen. He takes part in armed conflict on many different scales, and is "motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party" (Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Convention of August 1949).[1][2] A non-conscript professional member of a regular army is not considered to be a mercenary although he gets remuneration for his service.

As a result of the assumption that a mercenary is essentially motivated by money, the term "mercenary" usually carries negative connotations, though that can be a compliment in some contexts. There is a blur in the distinction between a "mercenary" and a "foreign volunteer", when the primary motive of a soldier in a foreign army is uncertain. For instance, the French Foreign Legion and the Gurkhas are not mercenaries under the laws of war, since although they may meet many of the requirements of Article 47 of the 1949 Additional Protocol I, they are exempt under clauses 47(a)(c)(d)(e)&(f); some journalists describe them as mercenaries regardless.[3][4]

My arguement is that Adventurers are not mercenaries but free entities that can act as mercenaries that fill many roles as far as lore and game mechanics go. This is why the "Adventuer" in FFXI isn't a "true mercenary". We actually chang up roles constantly as far and in game vs concept lore technically.

A mercenary is a person that hires out for military ie what Salaheem's Sentinels is in FFXI. We don't ally with the Empire of Aht Urghan but only work for them through her organization. We have no motivations for taking part in Beseiged other than Naja pays us to defend the city. In this instance an "Adventuer" is acting as a mercenary but that isn't the case in nation we start with and ally with.

We in missions are asked to fill variant roles which contradict the "true definition" of a mercenary though.

A true mercenary is only a soldier for hire. A true mecenary would never be asked to do spy and and ambassordorial work for a nation. You are merely a soldier for hire. In the story lines for nation mentions you are asked to fill all of those roles while working for your allied nation and therefore are not a true mercenary.

You take the view of the modern fictional idea that a mercenary is one that will perform any task for anyone and equate our ability to do tasks for NPC privately as well as "select" missions as proof of Adventuers being "mercenaries" as follows:

And you could change your home nation, and the missions you had access to at any time. "Adventurer" was just a pretty word for "mercenary" as you would go around taking any and all jobs you could for money and rewards.

Now all I was trying to say in as much as we are not "true mercenaries" per the definiton and not popular cultural view we are in fact "Swords for Hire" as Adventurers. Because the wording is so vague and the agencies are run by mercenaries I am speculating if in fact Adventurers in the new game will be more like "ture mercenaries" than "swords for hire". I cannot in anything I've read in about this new game tell which role we will fill. Its just it makes me feel perhaps we might be more soldiers for hire in this new game than sowrds for hire and/or even be able to do jobs for beastmen.

I need to go to work now but I have found all the quotes for the battle system which I'll put up later.

[Malacite]

Re: FFXIV Storyline revealed!

Didn't it say that we're basically all criminals given jobs by the city states to keep us from committing more crimes?

[fairyoracle75]

Re: FFXIV Storyline revealed!

Didn't it say that we're basically all criminals given jobs by the city states to keep us from committing more crimes?

Yes Malacite that was the idea I got not we were being attacked by two rival.

I never got into what Adventurers per the officil FFXIV was I forgot lol.

I don't see anywhere in here where it says in the current in game setting Adventurers get involved because they are "getting their asses" kicked by both the Beast Tribes and the Garlean Empire what I see is as follows:

In the past, the city-states battled for domination and hegemony. Death-mongering beast tribes molested the land unchecked

Rather than the attacks by Beastmen being on-going it sounds like in the past there was constant civil war going on between all of the city-states and the beastmen.

Then things changed when the Garlean Empire showed up. It destroyed all of the city states but 3 and suddenly disappeared mysteriously.

And it was thus that Eorzea slipped into the "Age of Calm", during which an uneasy peace prevailed.

To prepare for the coming storm, the first task of the newly-formed alliance was to fortify their defenses. In the previous era, few city-states maintained organized militaries, opting instead to hire the services of mercenaries and hedge knights to champion their causes. However, after the fall of Ala Mhigo, city guard units were restructured into legitimate standing armies which could be quickly called upon and mobilized if he need arose.

Unfortunately, this left a majority of the realm's hireswords with nowhere to pledge their fealty, and with their livelihood ripped out from under them, many of these men and women resorted to acts of villainy to survive. For fear of the situation worsening and the land falling into chaos, several respected leaders from around Eorzea gathered together and formed a network of guilds to provide these lost souls with the opportunity to redeem themselves by aiding others.

Through the foresight and resolve of these leaders a new industry known as "adventuring" emerged, its advent helping usher in the current era - an era of hope in a time when shadows of uncertainty loom ever closer

.

So to me it sounds like mercenaries fought in the war against the Garlean Empire and that war ended and the world enters "the Age of Calm". The city-states cut the mercenaries free and created their own armies just in case the Garlean Empire attacked again, since it mysteriously disappeared and stopped attacking they couldn't be sure what would happen in the future. The deposed mercenaries became swords for hire but there wasn't enough work so many turned to crime. Some retired mecenaries from the war said "hey these guys are giving mercenaries a bad name" and formed organizations to organize the independant hireswords and give them decent work.

To equate it with r/l examples:

When fuedalism died in both Europe and Japan the career hired soldiers, knights and samurai, were cut loose and replaced by national armies. Many either became swords for hire or criminals to survive. So many turned to crime governments wither hired some of them officially or prosecuted them as criminals.

During Queen Annes War in Europe indenpendant sailors called privateers were used to attack enemy ships. It basically was a legitmate form of piracy. When the war ended the privateers were cut loose and became the infamous pirates of the carrabbian. To stop them they governments decided to offer pardons with a pay-off if they would stop and if that wasn't accepted they were hunted down and executed as criminals.

Basically it sounds like Eorzea is in a transition period and offered the criminal hireswords a pardon option with legitmate employment now calling them Adventurers. There's not a big war going on but the Garliean Empire has raised its ugly head and most likely Adventurers, though not offical parts of the military of the City-States, will be called on to help. This might involve the strange "visions" the last update explained.

---------- Post added at 05:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 PM ----------

As for battle being the same I have collected the following quote showing that it is indeed different:

From an interview found here Allakhazam.com: Final Fantasy XI: FFXIV NEWS - Tanaka & Komoto Interview :

Players looking for action can start sharpening their blades in anticipation for a battle system that takes a marked departure from Final Fantasy XI. In order to make the battles interesting and have lasting appeal, there will be a number of strategical elements added to encounters. They imply there will be a learning curve of sorts - beginners can expect simpler fights as they get the hang of things, while hardcore players looking to test their mettle can find serious battles that require much more cunning. It will not be realtime, action style encounters, but rather a number of more cerebral aspects.

Stratedgy will vary from fight to fight so it sounds like they are intorducing things that will make fights more challenging.

The rest of these quotes are from different interviews on the wonderful post by the Grandmom http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/ffx...formation.html

Battle demo interview:

Action Commands, as Tanaka calls them, are lined up along the bottom of the screen as icons. Those who are grumbling about a passing resemblance to World of Warcraft will be happy to know the layout is tentative and certainly subject to change. The current setup has players selecting an ability from the from the bottom which then appears as a command in your gauge. There are two gauges - one for the left hand and one for the right hand. For example, the character that Tanaka was controlling had a shield in his left hand, so the left-handed gauge had shield commands registered to it.

To activate an ability, the player needs to store up their "Action Gauge." The strength and accuracy of a technique can be further increased by storing up the "Power Gauge." The "TP Gauge" also makes a return, which when full will alter the effects of your technique in a variety of ways. The gauges will increase when the player attacks or is attacked by an enemy. During this explanation, Tanaka unleashes Red Lotus Blade with a grin, much to the delight of the interviewer, who immediately recognizes the sword technique.

Magic will be used the same way - through Action Commands - but will only be available if you are equipped with a weapon that allows their use. Swords give sword-based abilities and staves will give magic-based abilities. Also, there are skills that cannot be used until you have acquired enough skill in a particular weapon. In total, you can line up 10 commands in the bar of icons along the bottom. However, in future versions Tanaka states they intend to include a macro system, so players can customize and combine their favorite abilities to their liking.

So instead of just watching TP we will have to watch several gauges and understand how they affect the frequency and effectiveness of attacks. There even is a difference depending on which hand a weapon is in. This sounds different from FFXI to me.

Another interview:

And how will the 'levels' of the mobs work? Does the game have some kinda system in place to adjust mob difficulty based on character stats and current status of party?

Its not going to be changing depending on the players skills. Its fixed. So you get to chose yourself who or what you want to fight.

Gaguing an enemies strength isn't even the same...

As far as how the mobs act check out this quote from Games.com- 4 Games interview:

In order for the character to perform commands specified by the player, one must first store up the Action Gauge. If you select a command before the gauge is ready, it will activate once the gauge fills up. There is also a Power Gauge, which can increase the strength and accuracy of one's techniques. The interviewer notes that even with the absence of Auto-Attack, the player could simply use the most powerful skill over and over again. However, Tanaka reveals that repetitive usage of one skill will cause the monster to start seeing through your actions, and it will become harder to land your attack. In other words, employing a variety of tactics is the best way to defeat a monster.

So when the interview thought that we would be spamming our most power attacks mindlessly, like many here are asserting, Tanaka corrected him and said you have to constantly change your stratedy or the monster will figure it out and you will start to miss a lot. Like I said the mob figures out your stratedgy and adapts which indicates some kind of AI.

"This doesn't look like Vanadiel to me Toto"

[Ziero]

Re: FFXIV Storyline revealed!

My arguement is that just because some similiarites exist does not mean the entire game is exactly the same. Can you disprove all of the statements from developers who have far more information than the scant information we have that say its different? No the only thing you can do is say "I don't trust it will be different because all of the races are so similiar so I don't believe the developers are saying."

I never said that FFXIV was just a copy of FFXI, I know there will be massive differences past the looks of the game. I was just pointing out the ever increasing similarities between the two games. Especially in regards to the setting which is pretty much starting to become a near copy to what we had in FFXI.

Only basing your concept of adventurers on the vague statement on the website we could view Adventuers as Mecenary.
You state the fact that we can change national affiliations as a support that Adventurers are actually mercenaries which isn't a "true" definition of mercenary. This is game mechanics at work not lore. When you change allies lore wise its as if you never served another nation when you change nations. There is nowhere in game you'll find an NPC mention your past working for the government of another nation.

Lore-wise, we can change our nation's allegiance at any time. It's game play wise that everyone disregards our change. Hell, you even quoted in the game's own lore "moving freely from city to city in spite of their own national allegiances." According to the lore itself, it doesn't matter what nation you're with, if you can do the job you're hired. Adventurers are freelance mercenaries who will do any job for a reward.

As you can see a mercenary is "a professional soldier" This is a "Sword for Hire" which isn't a "true mercenary" who is a professional soldier that will work for any army. A sword for hire can do mercenary work but will do jobs for anyone including private citizens and may or may not have training as a professional soldier.

Semantics. Being a "sword for hire" is just a fancy way of saying mercenary.
Mercenary
1. Working or acting merely for money or other reward; venal.
Mercenary Definition | Definition of Mercenary at Dictionary.com

Rather than the attacks by Beastmen being on-going it sounds like in the past there was constant civil war going on between all of the city-states and the beastmen.

Then things changed when the Garlean Empire showed up. It destroyed all of the city states but 3 and suddenly disappeared mysteriously.

Replace Garlean Empire with Shadow Lord and you practically have FFXI's history.

In both games the player races were at war with each other and the different groups of beastmen. Then suddenly the beastmen unite and another major aggressor appears and beats the crap outta the player races. This forces the player races to form an uneasy alliance where they have to work together, but not like each other, and to look to private mercenaries to help bolster their numbers and support their main three cities. The similarities are there so it's not like it's a stretch to say the stories seem very similar.

As for battle being the same I have collected the following quote showing that it is indeed different:

Who mentioned battles? I was just saying that they gave little-to-no information about a mobs AI in battle. Saying a mob will "start seeing through our actions" if we spam the same strong attack over and over again only tells us that some mobs will eventually resist certain attacks.

[jenova_9]

Re: FFXIV Storyline revealed!

this time though. Garlean Empire seems separate from the Beastmen tribes.

Shadowlord's forces formed an alliance with the 3 beastmen tribes, but in this case, I think the beastmen tribes only care about themselves, they might even be at odds with the each other besides the 5 races. so I think the beastmen tribes
will be the only ones that do not ally with the 5 races, even though Garlean empire wants to destroy them all, the 5 races and beastmen included.
It's kind of like the Reptites in Chrono Trigger never joined forces with the humans, even though they knew Lavos would kill them all.

We have even yet to see what a Garlean soldier looks like. For all we know they probably are a new race.

[fairyoracle75]

Re: FFXIV Storyline revealed!

I see you want to take the defitition of mercenary definiton in the modern sense and that's your perrogative. Notice even in your post 3 out of th 4 included "professional soldier" in them and since you like 4 "any hireling" and view that as the true defintion of the word you can think a guy hired to work in a store as a mercenary too. That's why I coose to accept 1-3 as being more accurate. If anyone that did odd jobs for money or any task is a mercenary then everyone on the planet is.

I just think FFXI Adventuers are not really mercenaries as I said before.

I also just noticed it says "move freely among the nations despite their alligence" it doesnt' say "move freely among the nations changing their alligence" so the alligence changing is not in lore which is why the game mechanics don't recognize the change. If FFXI meant for the changing of nations to be part of the lore it would be recognized in the nation.

Replace Garlean Empire with Shadow Lord and you practically have FFXI's history.

In both games the player races were at war with each other and the different groups of beastmen. Then suddenly the beastmen unite and another major aggressor appears and beats the crap outta the player races. This forces the player races to form an uneasy alliance where they have to work together, but not like each other, and to look to private mercenaries to help bolster their numbers and support their main three cities. The similarities are there so it's not like it's a stretch to say the stories seem very similar.

No you are missing something. I don't see anywhere that is says the Beastmen Tribes unite and attack with the Garlean Empire.

The Garlean Empire is everyone's enemy. The last information they released said the Beastmen Tribes fight each other and the Garlean Empire. That's not like FFXI.

The only similairities I see: is there was a war in the past. The nations used to be fighting eachother and the beastmen. A new threat arises again.

In FFXI the past wars between the beastmen and nations had ended by the time the Shadow Lord united the Beastmen.

vs

In FFXIV the war between the Beastmen and people ended when the Garlean Empire attack both of them.


In FFXI the Crystal War ended when the Shadow Lord was killed by the Allied Forces.

vs.

In FFXIV the war with the Garlean Empire ended because they mysterious withdrew.


In FFXI the beastmen begin uniting again to resurrect the Shadow Lord and start another war.

vs.

In FFIV the beast tribes and people are in a period of relative piece when the Garlean Empire seems to be returning.

I see a lot more differences than similliarties in the basic plot.

[Ziero]

Re: FFXIV Storyline revealed!

I also just noticed it says "move freely among the nations despite their alligence" it doesnt' say "move freely among the nations changing their alligence" so the alligence changing is not in lore which is why the game mechanics don't recognize the change. If FFXI meant for the changing of nations to be part of the lore it would be recognized in the nation.

The whole point was that Adventurers in FFXI worked for people regardless of their allegiances. Where you initially said that "In FFXI the adventurers are allied to the nation they start with and all your accomplishments are to advance the nation you are Allied with", in reality anything an Adventurer did was for their own personal gain. Adventurers were professional fighters who took jobs for money. Regardless of nation, rank or whatever beliefs their employers held. Hell we were free to take jobs from freakin Beastmen in FFXI, if they could reward us we would do it. Any "Allegiance" a player had to a country could be changed at a whim. And chances are, a similar situation will happen in FFXIV where we pick one of the three starting cities to call home while we sign up for these "mercenary missions". The only real difference is that instead of running around town talking to random people for work, we instead find work at specific offices where people post jobs they need done. Sort of like Assaults.

No you are missing something. I don't see anywhere that is says the Beastmen Tribes unite and attack with the Garlean Empire.

It's missing because I never said that. I said the Beastmen unite with each other, not that they unite with the Garlean Empire. The Garlean Empire's sudden attack being what forces the players to unite however is what I was comparing to the Shadowlord and how his sudden appearance causes the players in XI to unite. Before then though, all player races were at war with each other as well as the different beastmen factions.

The Garlean Empire is everyone's enemy. The last information they released said the Beastmen Tribes fight each other and the Garlean Empire. That's not like FFXI.

The only similairities I see: is there was a war in the past. The nations used to be fighting eachother and the beastmen. A new threat arises again.

The only only difference I really see is that instead of the sudden and mysterious new power working with the Beastmen, it's a force of it's own. The Garlean Empire is still the major and mysterious force that brought mass chaos to all the lands and forced the player races to unite as one before suddenly disappearing. And it's still the major thing that's causing a new increase in tension and looming as a shadow over the still united, yet still untrusting, player races. The situation is pretty much the same, there are three player cities with five player races and none of them like or trust each other but they all have to work together. They're under constant attacks from Beastmen who also don't like each other but work together for a common goal, while a mysterious and looming threat slowly rises again to plunge the entire land back into all out war.

I never once claimed both situations were exactly the same, and I even pointed out the three way battle in an earlier post myself. I am however saying that the similarities are there, and that the current setting we will be playing in is very close to the one we had in FFXI.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: FFXIV Storyline revealed!

Hey, Ziero.

Suspension of Disbelief is a skill you do not have.

Additionally, in many cases, you had to develop reputation with a nation to access certain quests - or have we forgotten? Reputation was the "faction" points of FFXI except it was tied more to NPCs and Nations than races alone.

Finally, FFXIV can have a similar starting point. Most MMOs aren't far removed from the kind of design we're starting with. Doesen't matter if I'm a Dark Elf or a Dwarf, I'm gonna be put through very similar paces to get things started. There's a symmetry to starting the MMO design that cannot be avoided. People want their characters to start in different places and feel different, even though those places are just visually and thematically different, with a different and the experience is relatively similar otherwise.

Its the later quests, missions and other content is where your character and the game's story starts to differentiate itself from the pack. People really need to stop getting hung-up on the Three Nations/Five Races argument and move on. Games can start out similar and end up in totally different places.

[fairyoracle75]

Re: FFXIV Storyline revealed!

Ty BBQ.

Ziero you still are confusing story with game mechanics. If you do a job for someone in Sandy you are still a Bastoker if that is your Allied nation. You can move freely and do things for people in the other nations no matter who you are Allied to at that time which is what the main website is saying and this fact is acknowledged by NPCs. Changing your nation via game machaics reboots the game story so in fact we aren't 100% free-agents but there's no sense continuing on that subject...

I said the Beastmen unite with each other, not that they unite with the Garlean Empire.

Please show me where it says the Beast Tribes will be united. From the last post we got its says the Beast Tribes will all be different and even could be interpreted as they might acutally not be:

not to mention, not all beast tribes view humans as enemies, and there may be those that live peacefully, those that betray, and even those that try to make deals with humans.

1) So please explain how all beast tribes will be united if some view humans as friends and I'm not talking goblins here. I know you think a merchant/mercenary race like Goblins explains this away but it doesn't. Goblins don't like us but do business with us. This statement could also mean seeing as "an enemy of my enemy is my friend" that some might actually Ally with the Adventurers. There's nothing you can point to that makes you absolutely right.

2) It mentions those that betray and it doesn't say who they betray. This could as easily mean they make nice with one beast tribe but stab them in the back siding with people just as much as it could mean they betray people.

3) Again if one tribe makes a deal with people explain how they could be united with a tribe that hates people?

I think you are taking a large leap asserting that the Beastmen will absolutely be united at this point.

[Ziero]

Re: FFXIV Storyline revealed!

Additionally, in many cases, you had to develop reputation with a nation to access certain quests - or have we forgotten? Reputation was the "faction" points of FFXI except it was tied more to NPCs and Nations than races alone.

You mean the fame system? The system that had absolutely no effect on your national ranking or standing? Fame was a way to make it seem like you were building your character's reputation throughout the world by doing quests for various townspeople. But at no point does the fame system have anything to do with your nationality or rank. I could start in Bastok, run to Sandy and become a hero there, regardless of where I'm from or who I'm allied with, because fame and nationality had no relation. It's why the National Rank system had it's own form of "Reputation", one that directly tied it to the work you've done for your specific country. The only thing nation had any effect on as far as Fame was concerned was limiting how many people knew of your deeds by location. Helping someone in one town won't make you famous on the other side of the world, so you had to travel the world to be world famous.

People really need to stop getting hung-up on the Three Nations/Five Races argument and move on. Games can start out similar and end up in totally different places.

First off, once again I never said they would be exactly the same. I know there are differences. And yes games can start out similar and end differently, but at this point the similarities are too blatant to pass up. We have the same exact five races starting out in three cities, one lush tropical land on a cliff, one forrest fortress deep in the woods and one city built into a mountain in the middle of a desert (c'mon). We have five races who for a long time have been at war with each other, as well as "Beastmen" of various types, who are suddenly unified due to a mysterious and powerful force that appears one day wreaks massive havoc across the land and is then suddenly gone. We have these nations and races deciding to form an uneasy alliance to protect themselves from future impending doom while they hire "Adventurers" to help suppliment their forces and defend their nations from constant "Beastmen" aggressions while the original mysterious force slowly looms overhead once again.

Yes the games will be completely different, but the story and setting are very similar. Moreso then any previous numbered FF game to date.

Ziero you still are confusing story with game mechanics. If you do a job for someone in Sandy you are still a Bastoker if that is your Allied nation. You can move freely and do things for people in the other nations no matter who you are Allied to at that time which is what the main website is saying and this fact is acknowledged by NPCs. Changing your nation via game machaics reboots the game story so in fact we aren't 100% free-agents but there's no sense continuing on that subject...

Actually I'm not even thinking of game mechanics. If my character, as a person in the world of Vana D'iel, wishes to change his national allegiance and fight for the flag of another country, he can do so at any time. If my character chooses to have nothing to do with a specific nations political and internal strife, but just chooses to live there, he can refuse to do any missions to aid that nation. Adventurers are freelance, individual mercenaries who can fight for anyone at any time for anything, regardless of whatever nation their stuff is currently stored in. Nothing is rebooted when we change nations, we just stop working for them. They do not address us in game as "traitors" or such because that is a game mechanics issue.

1) So please explain how all beast tribes will be united if some view humans as friends and I'm not talking goblins here. I know you think a merchant/mercenary race like Goblins explains this away but it doesn't. Goblins don't like us but do business with us. This statement could also mean seeing as "an enemy of my enemy is my friend" that some might actually Ally with the Adventurers. There's nothing you can point to that makes you absolutely right.

2) It mentions those that betray and it doesn't say who they betray. This could as easily mean they make nice with one beast tribe but stab them in the back siding with people just as much as it could mean they betray people.

3) Again if one tribe makes a deal with people explain how they could be united with a tribe that hates people?

The same way all three of these happen within FFXI. I never said "every single beastman tribe is going to try and kill us" I said Beastmen tribes unite to try and destroy us, similar to how player races unite to try and protect us. Goblins DO explain it, they're a race of merchants and mercenaries who will work for whoever pays them. As do Qirin who also value money and trinkets over political issues. Any and all examples of "Beastmen tribes" working together or fighting each other can be seen in how the beastmen of FFXI act. For crying out loud, the original article in the original post specifically compares FFXIV's "Banzoku" to FFXI's Beastmen. I think people are trying hard to *ignore* the similarities between the two game's settings then I am to point them out.

[fairyoracle75]

Re: FFXIV Storyline revealed!

The same way all three of these happen within FFXI. I never said "every single beastman tribe is going to try and kill us" I said Beastmen tribes unite to try and destroy us, similar to how player races unite to try and protect us. Goblins DO explain it, they're a race of merchants and mercenaries who will work for whoever pays them. As do Qirin who also value money and trinkets over political issues. Any and all examples of "Beastmen tribes" working together or fighting each other can be seen in how the beastmen of FFXI act. For crying out loud, the original article in the original post specifically compares FFXIV's "Banzoku" to FFXI's Beastmen. I think people are trying hard to *ignore* the similarities between the two game's settings then I am to point them out.

None of those things I mention happen in FFXI.

I must be speaking Greek Ziero.

A. In FFXI a Quadav doesn't attack a Yagudo. There are indications that this might be happening in FFXIV.

B. You refuse to accept anything other than your view is possibility and the arguments you use aren't convincing us since there is no concrete proof of how the game will be.

C. My assertations are based on speculation and the only reply you give is refer me to things non-related like graphic and basic storyline point comparing them to FFXI.

D. Just because I don't agree with you that that similarity existing means that you are right in believing beastmen in FFXIV will act just like the ones in FFXI doesn't mean I"m ignoring similiarities in graphics and story.

Bottomline:

I think you're entire line of thought is to see FFXIV only through a lens of comparisions to FFXI which I disagree with.

Saying a Banzoku looks like a Mamool Ja doesn't indicate it will act like a Mamool Ja so how is that a proof there might not be a faction of Banzoku that will cooperate with humans? There isn't. That's my point.

I just don't understand how a few story points and similiar graphics prove the beastmen will behave exactly the same. You never site what the Devs for FFXIV have said as proof.

Now do you understand what I"m saying?

[Jei]

Re: FFXIV Storyline revealed!

My, my. Don't get too serious everyone It's a fun and happy moment to look forward to FFXIV. Let's just have fun speculating and keep our excitement up.

There CAN be conflict even among the same beast tribes. We already speculated that the monsters may be fighting each other with the food-chain system so it's all possible that the beast men will be fighting each other too. We might even see them fighting even among the same race. C'mon, human fight other human. Why not them.

[fairyoracle75]

Re: FFXIV Storyline revealed!

Sorry if I was a little forceful its just I tend to be upset if it seems no one is understanding what I mean.

[Pwnagraphic]

Re: FFXIV Storyline revealed!

On another note..


I'M SO EXCITED! The anticipation is too much to bare.

[jenova_9]

Re: FFXIV Storyline revealed!

ya it would be refreshing if the beastmen tribes are enemies between themselves too.

They shouldn't copy and paste everything like how it was in FFXI.