FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

[Takelli]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

I don't know about you but I think I've seen more games with level than skill tree :/

But I guess levels in FFXI isn't permanent. You can always kill yourself and lose it huh.

Well the games have levels and skill trees. You need a certain level, and a certain skill level to unlock another part of the skill tree. They add the trees into the games to limit the players to make their characters more useful in one area than another. But in doing so, prevents you from leveling another area.

The only game now I like that has a skill tree that actually did it right is Ryzom.

With Ryzom, if you have a skill in Dagger of level 5, and a skill in Sword of level 15, you will be level 5 if you have a dagger equiped, but if you change to sword, you will be of level 15. The thing is though, that you need to level your Hp up as well to level. Same with magic. If you have a level 20 skill in Healing, and a level 15 skill in offensive magic, and you use a healing spell, you are considered as a level 20, but if you use an offensive spell in the same combat, you are still considered as a level 20. But if you start with the level 15 Offensive, you are considered as a level 15 until you use a healing, then you are considered as level 20 for the rest of the combat.

Your Hp does not change if you are using a lower level spell, or a higher level weapon skill. It stays the same because you can litterally buy your Hp as you level up. And no matter what, youc an not F*ck up your character.

As for the FFXI not being pernament if you die... I never really thought of it like that lol.

[Malacite]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

Personally I'm hoping I'll be able to combine Bow/Gun Skills with Black Magic :O

I agree with BBQ, that something akin to FFT's system (or at least 5 or 9) where you can equip different abilities or skill sets from various classes would be ideal, and depending on your current class the effect of those abilities could vary.


Again, this is where FFXI drove me up the wall with the subjob system. Why shouldn't a lv 75 WAR/BLM be able to use Thunder 4? No really, why the hell not? They won't be able to muster the same power as a BLM main or have the MP needed, but having full access to the powers could be a life saver in some instances.

This is what I loved about FF5 so much. Certain combos were inherently better (a RDM/BLM for instance would make much better use of the extra black magic than a Knight/BLM) but there were no "bad" or "gimp" combos (well, except Berserker... nothing really comboed with that class LOL other than maybe passive boosts)

I don't like the notion of taking away options, especially when you have a bunch of classes to mix and match. I just feel some combos should work or better take advantage of another's abilities (again citing RDM, which already has innate magical prowess, but lacks the focus of the other mage jobs. In XI, being a RDM/BLM doesn't make you a better nuker, it just gives a couple of nice spells you wouldn't otherwise have and this is where I start to get pissed off)

[Kailea]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

Personally I'm hoping I'll be able to combine Bow/Gun Skills with Black Magic :O

I agree with BBQ, that something akin to FFT's system (or at least 5 or 9) where you can equip different abilities or skill sets from various classes would be ideal, and depending on your current class the effect of those abilities could vary.


Again, this is where FFXI drove me up the wall with the subjob system. Why shouldn't a lv 75 WAR/BLM be able to use Thunder 4? No really, why the hell not? They won't be able to muster the same power as a BLM main or have the MP needed, but having full access to the powers could be a life saver in some instances.

This is what I loved about FF5 so much. Certain combos were inherently better (a RDM/BLM for instance would make much better use of the extra black magic than a Knight/BLM) but there were no "bad" or "gimp" combos (well, except Berserker... nothing really comboed with that class LOL other than maybe passive boosts)

I don't like the notion of taking away options, especially when you have a bunch of classes to mix and match. I just feel some combos should work or better take advantage of another's abilities (again citing RDM, which already has innate magical prowess, but lacks the focus of the other mage jobs. In XI, being a RDM/BLM doesn't make you a better nuker, it just gives a couple of nice spells you wouldn't otherwise have and this is where I start to get pissed off)

This would be horribly broke, but to take just one thing from that, here in an example of how I thought it should have worked, and its all in the skills.

Player A levels BLM to 75, and Player B levels BLM to 37

Player A and Player B level WAR to 75

now when they both sub BLM as WAR, the difference here would be that the magic skill would carry over fully, and not be limited to the 37 level limt. (pretty much how light/dark arts works now as /SCH)

Player A would have his his max magic skills from his level 75 BLM, even though his BLM spell list is limited to his 37 sub limit.

[Malacite]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

And very little MP to cast with.

Skills don't stack either, so you can't have a say a RDM/BLM or BLM/RDM suddenly become a bad ass nuker :/

[Armando]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

@Kailea: That would suck balls. No one's gonna want to level a job to 75 just to use its full sub potential, especially when the full sub potential isn't much better than what we currently have at /37 with half capped skills.

[Takelli]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

@Kailea: That would suck balls. No one's gonna want to level a job to 75 just to use its full sub potential, especially when the full sub potential isn't much better than what we currently have at /37 with half capped skills.

Well, if leveling to 75 wasn't as tediuos as it is, then it wouldn't be that bad. Decrese the exp needed to level to 75, and change the skills slightly so they are stronger, or weaker depending on the main/sub, and so on.

[Malacite]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

Well, if leveling to 75 wasn't as tediuos as it is, then it wouldn't be that bad.

It's a chore yes, but it's not as bad for some jobs over others. I just feel SE could have taken a different method to balancing out subjobs than simply gimping skills and certain abilities in addition to preventing traits from stacking.

I mean, if BLM/RDM could actually gain those extra 2 MAB traits from /RDM that'd kick ass ^^
Now, I'm not going to make any claims one way or other but I don't see why SE hasn't tried recreating 5 or Tactics's systems. Or perhaps even some kind of hybrid? Here's what I'd love to have as an example;

Primary Class: Ranger
Secondary Class: Black Mage in the event of physical resistant or large groups of enemies (though in all honesty I'm probably better off as BLM main with a Bow so if I run out of MP I can keep fighting at a distance)
Support Ability: Magic Attack Bonus (since MP will be limited due to no native MP)


Now, FFT also had reaction/movement slots but in lieu of that since this is an MMO, I would say maybe either additional support traits and/or job-specific commands i.e. Flee & Auto-Refresh? It'd be awesome to combine aspects of multiple jobs once again. I cited Flee and AR since I'll primarily be running around and shooting (no time to rest) and Flee is just there as an emergency escape since mobs will apparently only chase you so far in 14.

[Firewind]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

Personally the only tree system I've really liked are the ones from FFX and FFXII, they were incredible. Other than those games...I've never really been a massive fan of them. And this IS Final Fantasy. Something is telling me that we are going to have to grind every single skill up for every single skill we will need for our "jobs".

The main issue I have with using a tree system for am MMO is that you have no idea if the people who just invited to say main tank has the skills (In this case we would assume Heavy Armour, Shields, Damage Mitigation skills and maybe some self heal skills) to actually tank. I'm having visions of someone running up in say, Leather Armour and a 2 handed sword and a single token damage mitigation skill they may have started with and claiming they're going to be able to tank then get killed continuously because they have no way to take hits.

No I'm not bitter from idiotic Aion Templars and Gladiators too lazy to farm for fifteen minutes to buy some Plate Mail and a Sword and Shield and some tanking stigma! Honest! >.>

People who play because they enjoy helping other people learn from that mistake eventually. I sure as hell did learn it with Bard.

---

For me, COR was that nice, happy medium of personal gratification and support. So was SCH. RNG was my raw ego job.

These are basically the reasons why I started levelling COR and PLD and more or less gave up on WHM. Well that and stupid "NO ITEMS! RDM ONLY! FINAL DESTINATION!" players.

[Takelli]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

Personally the only tree system I've really liked are the ones from FFX and FFXII, they were incredible

FFXII? Are you kidding? I hated that system. You had to use points in order to equip a shield? A dagger as well? Even a damn hat! How hard can it be to figure out wher to put a hat, especially when you see others wearing one.

FFXII made the simplest things seem so complicated from the skill tree.

[Ziero]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

Like I said before, a mix of learned, innate skills and a ability "slot" system ala Blu from FFXI would work great. As you play a job, you gain stats and learn various skills and abilities, each of which has a certain point value to them. When getting ready to go on an adventure, you set your abilities in town, picking from any abilities you've learned to that point. Stronger abilities have higher point values and alternate class abilities cost extra if you try to set them. Once you leave town your abilities can't be changed and you get full access to whatever you chose.

Players can learn different abilities via a (reversible) tree system or what have you and from there, gaining access to other job's abilities and being able to set their abilities as they choose, it would (potentially) allow for a lot of customization and specialization.

However, the whole "multiple disciplines" bit throws a wrench in the concept of traditional job growth. Chances are, abilities from one discipline won't transfer over to other disciplines. Meaning that you won't be able to see things like a Gladiator who can nuke like a Thaumaturge. aka no War/Blms with fire 4.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

FFXII? Are you kidding? I hated that system. You had to use points in order to equip a shield? A dagger as well?

Whats the difference between that and exp? You earn exp points in order to use them to achieve a higher level which in turn allows you to equip different armor/weapons. So in FFXII, you earn license points in order to use them to open a license which in turn allows you to equip different armor/weapons. In fact, isn't FFXII's way more open? Even if I exp to high heaven in FFXI I can not, as a white mage for example, equip a dagger/sword/axe but in FFXII if I choose to be mainly a healer I can still equip those items if I choose to.

Personally, I like a system that is more strict. Where a healer is a healer and not a mixture of whatever I choose. Designated jobs, like in FFXI with their restrictions, to me make more sense than how they did it in FFXII (and other FF titles). I just wish that the license board was more strict in FFXII. If you chose to open certain licenses (lets say a healers path) then other avenues should have been closed to you (like being able to equip an axe etc.).

[Malacite]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

Personally, I like a system that is more strict. Where a healer is a healer and not a mixture of whatever I choose. Designated jobs, like in FFXI with their restrictions, to me make more sense than how they did it in FFXII (and other FF titles). I just wish that the license board was more strict in FFXII. If you chose to open certain licenses (lets say a healers path) then other avenues should have been closed to you (like being able to equip an axe etc.).

The International version (which never released outside of Japan) had the "Zodiac Job System" which did pretty much what you've proposed.

I don't mind strict guidelines for jobs either, but if you're going to give us some freedom in mixing jobs, don't half ass it.

[Firewind]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

FFXII? Are you kidding? I hated that system. You had to use points in order to equip a shield? A dagger as well? Even a damn hat! How hard can it be to figure out wher to put a hat, especially when you see others wearing one.

FFXII made the simplest things seem so complicated from the skill tree.

As opposed to it being like FFXI, WoW, Aion, Warhammer Online and countless other MMOs where you are unable to put on a hat because you are one arbitrary point of experience away frin an arbitrary level up where you magically learn how to put a new hat on your head?

How is that any more realistic? Like TGM said, in FFXII if you wanted to make a White Mage who could wield daggers or a Katana you were freely able to do so by having your character spend skill points to represent your White Mage learning how to fight with daggers. Progressing further along the tree can easily represent the Knife Nut White Mage getting better at stabbing things and using more exotic knives and daggers just as advancing along the White Magick skill paths represented the White Mage learning how to cast more powerful and more complex White Magick.

Reading a webcomic then posting exactly what the author says you should think about the game doesn't makes you funny or smart, especially when talking about one of the few skill based advancement systems that actually WORKS and makes a little sense if you apply a little bit of imagination to your gaming though trying to find a modern gamer who has a sense of imagination is like trying to find a dog that speaks Norwegian.

[hexx]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

As opposed to it being like FFXI, WoW, Aion, Warhammer Online and countless other MMOs where you are unable to put on a hat because you are one arbitrary point of experience away frin an arbitrary level up where you magically learn how to put a new hat on your head?

How is that any more realistic? Like TGM said, in FFXII if you wanted to make a White Mage who could wield daggers or a Katana you were freely able to do so by having your character spend skill points to represent your White Mage learning how to fight with daggers. Progressing further along the tree can easily represent the Knife Nut White Mage getting better at stabbing things and using more exotic knives and daggers just as advancing along the White Magick skill paths represented the White Mage learning how to cast more powerful and more complex White Magick.

Reading a webcomic then posting exactly what the author says you should think about the game doesn't makes you funny or smart, especially when talking about one of the few skill based advancement systems that actually WORKS and makes a little sense if you apply a little bit of imagination to your gaming though trying to find a modern gamer who has a sense of imagination is like trying to find a dog that speaks Norwegian.

I think you were making an awesome point up until the bolded part there. What was the need in attacking Takelli in regards to the webcomic posted on VGCats oh so long ago? For all you know he wasn't referencing that particular comic, but a feeling he himself felt without ever having read the comic? I swear, you have such anger issues.

On topic, yeah I also personally thought it was awesome that my GK wielding Fran (who looks sexy as hell hee hee) could fire off some awesome Curagas as well as dish out some serious damage.

[Firewind]

Re: FFXIV Character creation details revealed!

It wasn't supposed to be a personal insult and I appologise in advance to Takelli if, he for some reason takes a post from an internet forum seriously enough to consider it as a personal insult. It just gets really old when people reference that comic when talking about FFXII's Lisence Grid system.