This Week in the Magazines (and more!)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: This Week in the Magazines (and more!)

You didn't catch my drift. When someone "haggles" in FFXI, they aren't bargaining, you're just taking a loss in exchange for nothing. Barter and trade requires an incentive. Perhaps you have something to sweeten the deal on me lowering my price, such as offering my SCH some pies while you're trying to get a lower price or offering assistance on an objective.

Its not about simply asking me to lower the price, its giving me a reason to.

FFXIV's system will contain reasons, such as the sword I'm trying to sell might not be as durable as the one the guy next to me is selling. Or my food is a couple days away from spoiling and shouldn't cost as much as the fresh stuff I'm trying to sell.

[Malacite]

Re: This Week in the Magazines (and more!)

Or they could offer a service in exchange as well;

Say for example you notice the seller's gear is in tatters; well, you could offer to repair it for them in lieu of pay (or at least lower the price of the item you're after) which you couldn't do in XI since shit never breaks and SE won't let us re-enchant items.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: This Week in the Magazines (and more!)

Speaking of enchantments.

I would have figured Enchanter would have shown up in the Disciples of Hand, but since its not there and I can't see it being a Disciple of the Land, that leaves magic. Let's hope SE doesn't do them what they did to BST. One might thing such a profession was closer to SMN, but it really depends on where SE chooses to go with it, I guess.

In EQ you could say it was a pet job, but it was more of a support class. The pets we summoned were rather fragile and having an enchanted pet prevented you from charming enemies, which made crowd control more difficult, so you would usually pass up summoning things to crowd control when bad pulls happened.

I do hope that crowd control boils down to more than bind and sleep this time around, at any rate.

[Ziero]

Re: This Week in the Magazines (and more!)

You didn't catch my drift. When someone "haggles" in FFXI, they aren't bargaining, you're just taking a loss in exchange for nothing. Barter and trade requires an incentive. Perhaps you have something to sweeten the deal on me lowering my price, such as offering my SCH some pies while you're trying to get a lower price or offering assistance on an objective.

Its not about simply asking me to lower the price, its giving me a reason to.

FFXIV's system will contain reasons, such as the sword I'm trying to sell might not be as durable as the one the guy next to me is selling. Or my food is a couple days away from spoiling and shouldn't cost as much as the fresh stuff I'm trying to sell.

And you don't seem to get it, haggling *is* nothing more then asking someone for a lower price. Seller sets a price, usually higher then they need it to be, someone comes by and asks if they can sell it for lower. That's exactly how it works. A smart seller will set his prices higher then normal so when someone does try to haggle them, they can come down a bit and make it seem like they're giving the customer a better price. There's also always that chance where someone will come along and buy something at the face value you listed netting you even more profit. But in a scenario where haggling is common, that's fairly rare.

Barter and trade isn't something that happens as much in a cash based economy, there's less reason for it. Every good, service and valuable has it's worth in cash, so it's easier to trade cash directly then to give you two pies, a goat and this shoe I found on the side of the road.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how someone can hear "market system" in regards to a game and suddenly jump into "that means we can barter and haggle!" A Market system means nothing more then players being able to set up shops to sell their stuff. It's a refined Bazaar system that doesn't force you to sit afk in the same spot all day long. You open a shop, fill it with items you wish to sell at prices you wish to sell them at and go do something else. Whether it be adventure in game or take a two week vacation irl. PSU had a market system as well, only theirs was based out of each person's private room instead of being spread throughout the world.

And if there is an Enchanter class of any type, it would have always fallen under magic . It's a combat skill to afflict enemies while enhancing allies and only two classes have any kind of combat capabilities. Crafting jobs do nothing but craft, harvest jobs do nothing but harvest, combat jobs do nothing but fight and casting jobs do nothing but cast. That's how FFXIV's class system is laid out, and it seems pretty straight forward. There will be no reason to be on your crafting job if you know you're going to be fighting, just like you won't need your combat job if you never leave a city.

[Durahansolo]

Re: This Week in the Magazines (and more!)

Or my food is a couple days away from spoiling and shouldn't cost as much as the fresh stuff I'm trying to sell.

Day Old Bakery Sales!!!! 1/2 Price :-)

I can actually see the potential fun that could come from this. All this talk about shops and food sales has made me think about the lone Taru mule in Valkurm Dunes near Selbina who sells Meat Kebobs all day long. The catch is that he doesn't sell them at AH prices, he sells them for a bit more since his Bazaar is in an inconvienient place. There is also a lone mithra that sells Meat Kebobs in La Theine because it is a annoying walk to return back to Sandy when you realize you forgot your food. I wonder if we will see more of this in FFXIV or less since it will be used as a job as well as a craft.

[Evion]

Re: This Week in the Magazines (and more!)

As your weapon wears down, its functional ability will decrease, requiring you to get it repaired. Tools will also need to be repaired from time to time too

Holy sheite, I actually kinda mentioned THIS... (page 3 second post)

[Balfree]

Re: This Week in the Magazines (and more!)

YouTube - Barter

So dats ao it waerks!

Hurr durr.

[Durahansolo]

Re: This Week in the Magazines (and more!)

Originally Posted by Malacite
As your weapon wears down, its functional ability will decrease, requiring you to get it repaired. Tools will also need to be repaired from time to time too

( I was too lazy to look through Mal's post for it.)

lol, I kinda figured it might be that way, which would be similar to Fallout. The better the weapon is repaired, the more efficient it is. I'd be messed up to have a Relic style weapon that was doing less DPS than a Onion Sword or if it degrades accuracy as well, to repeatedly miss. Then too, it'll give people more to look at to critique your style. Instead of "That sword is too weak for your level" you'll hear "Man you need to get that sword repaired, you're killing our XP/Hour!" instead of "The tank has been wearing that eisen armor for 20 levels." You'll hear " You're taking too much damage, your armor must be cracked, did you get it repaired before you came to party?"

[Malacite]

Re: This Week in the Magazines (and more!)

Barter and trade isn't something that happens as much in a cash based economy, there's less reason for it. Every good, service and valuable has it's worth in cash, so it's easier to trade cash directly then to give you two pies, a goat and this shoe I found on the side of the road.

Not necessarily; you could be offering an item at a discount as part of the barter deal in lieu of cash on hand.

---------- Post added at 08:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:40 AM ----------

Holy sheite, I actually kinda mentioned THIS... (page 3 second post)

That's precisely what I didn't want to see and feared SE would do. However I don't think they're quite that stupid. It makes more sense for the item to simply lose functionality as it gets damaged, rather than stay fully functional until repaired (and then when you do repair it, losing max durability which is just all kinds of lame. It doesn't even make sense either.)

[Ziero]

Re: This Week in the Magazines (and more!)

Not necessarily; you could be offering an item at a discount as part of the barter deal in lieu of cash on hand.

You could...if you were sitting there the entire time constantly watching your shop and interacting with every customer who walks buy and looks at your stock. But in a video game market, especially a player run one, chances are you'll be selling most of your stuff without you ever being there.

And how exactly are you going to know what items that random passer by is carrying for you to offer this "trade". Or do you think random players will suddenly decide to ignore gil and start trading good for goods on a mass scale?

Trading good for goods will happen, it happens all the time in FFXI. But gil is still the main form of currency used in 90% of all transactions. That phenomenon will repeat itself in FFXIV as well, seeing as money based economies usually focus around the distribution of money itself.

[Durahansolo]

Re: This Week in the Magazines (and more!)

Not necessarily; you could be offering an item at a discount as part of the barter deal in lieu of cash on hand.

Had something similar happen when I got Foolkiller. Guy wanted to sell it for about 900k, but instead traded for 400k, a Wivre Mask, and a Great Axe that I had on hand. There was still gil involved, but it wasn't a straight trade.

[Feba]

Re: This Week in the Magazines (and more!)

Its not about simply asking me to lower the price, its giving me a reason to.

Sometimes the reason is just as simple as 'if you lower it, I'll buy it'. That's all it takes a lot of the time.


Especially in cultures where people intentionally overprice items, which are then haggled down, which could easily form in an MMO.

On synth as a job, EVE online (OH GOD FEBA SHUT UP i know i know) doesn't have clear-cut jobs, and technically anything that interacts with the economy could be considered 'playing the game'. There are people that specialize in blueprints, construction, etc.; but I think the more interesting example is courier missions (SRO does this too, but nobody gives a fuck about SRO), where you basically set out from a point and try to make it to your destination in one piece. Crafting/marketing jobs could easily have a focus on NPC interaction (which is what EVE's character trait helps with) and travel.

[jenova_9]

Re: This Week in the Magazines (and more!)

oh like caravans! that would be neat if crafters hire wars and sorcerors to protect them on their journey.

[hexx]

Re: This Week in the Magazines (and more!)

Had something similar happen when I got Foolkiller. Guy wanted to sell it for about 900k, but instead traded for 400k, a Wivre Mask, and a Great Axe that I had on hand. There was still gil involved, but it wasn't a straight trade.

Got my Foolkiller for 300k =X