Site update discussion

[Armando]

Re: Site update discussion

And I wouldn't expect to see any sort of pets for the Lancer class. FFXI Dragoons were an anomaly in FF history, the only Dragoons or Lancers to ever have a pet. I doubt Lancers, who have already received a rather unique attribute in it's ability to fight at range, will ever get anything like FFXI Drgs.

Although you didn't get to use it in combat, FFII's Dragoons were known for employing Wyverns as mounts if I remember right, assuming Dawn of Souls didn't change FFII's plot/lore. FFXI's Dragoons weren't really much of an anomaly; instead of having a full-grown wyvern you have a baby one. Thing is that in many of the games the job is "just another job" in the job system (III, V, Tactics) rather than a unique group of people within the game's lore. Otherwise the game simply has minor throwbacks and references to jobs rather than the characters actually having jobs explicitly (e.g. FFX, FFVII.)

Of course I still don't think it'll actually happen, since they're avoiding FF jobs.

[Malacite]

Re: Site update discussion

We will never have Plds or Drgs or Sams, we'll have Gladiators with defensive builds, Lancers with heavy lances and Marauders with two handed long swords. We might get gear with a foreign flair or some such thing, but don't expect anything even remotely resembling classic FF jobs.

You don't know this for sure. Yes, Komoto did say they are avoided specific class labeling like that, but they can continue to add classes and new skills with each version update. Therefor, you can't simply just rule shit out.

Honestly, what's stopping SE from adding in a guildleve that gets Lancer to learn DRG skills and gain a wyvern at some point? Nothing. Whether they do that or not is an entirely different story, but the way this game is being set up is brilliant; they can literally do whatever the hell they want with each class and skill set.

[jenova_9]

Re: Site update discussion

Gladiators have Provoke, so they are already borrowing something from Warriors.

Lancers are definitely the spiritual successors of Dragoons one way or another. like FF4 Kain and FFXI Dragoon, and FFTactics Lancer, they don't need the same abilities to considered dragoons. even gameplay-wise, Richard in FFII didn't use wyverns for battle, so ya, dragoons don't need pets to be dragoons either.

it's like how Pugilist instantly clicks as being the successor to Monk since they fight iwth fists and Archer is the new Ranger in their own way.

Lancer is related to Dragoon, because it would be a waste of space if they added another class that also uses polearms/spears and are labeled a Dragoon. >_>

[Armando]

Re: Site update discussion

Gladiators have Provoke, so they are already borrowing something from Warriors.

Lancers are definitely the spiritual successors of Dragoons one way or another. like FF4 Kain and FFXI Dragoon, and FFTactics Lancer, they don't need the same abilities to considered dragoons. even gameplay-wise, Richard in FFII didn't use wyverns for battle, so ya, dragoons don't need pets to be dragoons either.

it's like how Pugilist instantly clicks as being the successor to Monk since they fight iwth fists and Archer is the new Ranger in their own way.

There's always a job or class with armor, sword and shield. There's always a job or class with a bow. If the lancers don't Jump, it's not DRG's spiritual successor. FF's rangers/archers don't even have any signature abilities that have remained consistent across all games. Hell, FFXI's Warrior was an amalgamation of at least two FF jobs (Berserker with Knight's break moves.)

It's not a spiritual successor just because it falls within the same major archetype as some classic FF job, archetypes FF didn't invent.

Lancer is related to Dragoon, because it would be a waste of space if they added another class that also uses polearms/spears and are labeled a Dragoon. >_>

And yet it's not a waste of space to have 3-4 job that can swing a sword in XI, apparently? If they wanted to, they could make 2 or 3 jobs all wielding polearms.

[Ziero]

Re: Site update discussion

You don't know this for sure. Yes, Komoto did say they are avoided specific class labeling like that, but they can continue to add classes and new skills with each version update. Therefor, you can't simply just rule shit out.

Honestly, what's stopping SE from adding in a guildleve that gets Lancer to learn DRG skills and gain a wyvern at some point? Nothing. Whether they do that or not is an entirely different story, but the way this game is being set up is brilliant; they can literally do whatever the hell they want with each class and skill set.

A Lancer with jump and a pet isn't a Drg though, it's a Lancer with jump and a pet. And a Gladiator who can heal isn't a Pld, it's a Gladiator with healing spells. People might be able to model the classes in FFXIV based on things from XI, but the classes themselves won't be the jobs from XI. Because while one Gladiator will have a defensive build with curing abilities, another will have an offensive build with attack capabilities. If I'm understanding this class system correctly that is. Stop comparing these classes to FFXI jobs, as things won't be so cookie cutter cut-and-paste simple this time around.

And yet it's not a waste of space to have 3-4 job that can swing a sword in XI, apparently? If they wanted to, they could make 2 or 3 jobs all wielding polearms.

It is a waste actually, and it's something FFXIV is breaking away from. In FFXI the Job determined the gear, in FFXIV the gear will determine the job. The dynamic has been completely reversed. If you use a lance/spear, you're a Lancer. It doesn't matter what abilities or attacks you actually end up using, your class is still a Lancer. For all we know there will be a defensive Lancer build that works just as efficiently as Pld in FFXI for tanking, while the offensive build works much like a DD Drg. The major point of the new class distinction in FFXIV is that the *weapons* do make the job, and it's not a single job with lots of weapon options where only one is good like in FFXI.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Site update discussion

There's always a job or class with armor, sword and shield. There's always a job or class with a bow. If the lancers don't Jump, it's not DRG's spiritual successor. FF's rangers/archers don't even have any signature abilities that have remained consistent across all games. Hell, FFXI's Warrior was an amalgamation of at least two FF jobs (Berserker with Knight's break moves.)

Aim (Sharpshot) and Barrage have made prior appearances in association with Ranger and Gunner. Not to mention Rosa was White Mage/Ranger hybrid.

[Malacite]

Re: Site update discussion

A Lancer with jump and a pet isn't a Drg though, it's a Lancer with jump and a pet. And a Gladiator who can heal isn't a Pld, it's a Gladiator with healing spells. People might be able to model the classes in FFXIV based on things from XI, but the classes themselves won't be the jobs from XI. Because while one Gladiator will have a defensive build with curing abilities, another will have an offensive build with attack capabilities. If I'm understanding this class system correctly that is. Stop comparing these classes to FFXI jobs, as things won't be so cookie cutter cut-and-paste simple this time around.

Yes it is, and you're missing the point.

Whether SE is doing this in purpose or not I can't say, but I've been reading about this in a book "Predictably Irrational"

Basically, SE is taking familiar concepts but changing the name & appearance as much as they can to make it seem like a completely different, authentic experience. The book cites an example of how a guy makes the transition between Dunkin' Donuts and Starbucks without even realizing it.

[Pwnagraphic]

Re: Site update discussion

There's a lot of disputing over the classes and we barely know anything about them.

[Kailea]

Re: Site update discussion

Didn't SE say there wouldn't be Katana specifically, but rather Katana like weapons you can choose to make use of if it suits your style? Meaning they would be swords/knives that just look like Katana rather then being a whole new class.

And I wouldn't expect to see any sort of pets for the Lancer class. FFXI Dragoons were an anomaly in FF history, the only Dragoons or Lancers to ever have a pet. I doubt Lancers, who have already received a rather unique attribute in it's ability to fight at range, will ever get anything like FFXI Drgs.

We will never have Plds or Drgs or Sams, we'll have Gladiators with defensive builds, Lancers with heavy lances and Marauders with two handed long swords. We might get gear with a foreign flair or some such thing, but don't expect anything even remotely resembling classic FF jobs.

its funny, it saddens me to see the classic names/jobs go, but at the same time, refreshed. I already plan on taking Lancer, Blacksmith, and one job from land and magic disciplines.

[Malacite]

Re: Site update discussion

We can pretty safely confirm Thaumaturge = BLM I believe.

If nothing else, based on Quadav Thaumaturge in Dynamis - Bastok: A BLM mob. It's also Golbez's title in Dissidia.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Site update discussion

There were lancers before there were dragoons, Dragoon was a fancier name for them. There are really only a handful of classes that are original to Final Fantasy and there haven't been any real new ones since FFVI.

No, FFT doesn't count, the jobs that weren't pulled from FFV were pulled from Tactics Ogre, seeing as that was Quest's previous franchise. No, not Puppetmaster either, I'm afraid. Gnomes in MMOs were building automations and summoning them for assistance for a while before FFXI.

FFVII, FFVIII, FFX and FFXII only had classes in appearance, the franchise has stuck with the "anyone can do anything" mentality since FFVI's esper system. FFXIII isn't looking to be any different in that regard. Say what you want, but I can make Lulu a fearsome melee, Balthier a Time Mage and Tifa a Blue Mage. The only identity FF "jobs" have had after FFVI is via FFVII's Limit Break style.

Renaming some of the jobs or, more accurately, just returning them to old names is one means of trying to get you to move away from connecting it to FFXI. I think moving crafters into the realm of being legitimate jobs is another step in that process. I think that's also a means of setting a new tone. The crafting jobs are going to be extremely important to the other half of the game's jobs.

And how does that affect the game's atmosphere? With 50% of the jobs not really being major combat roles, that's really going to change what kind of content we'll be seeing. We may not see the endgame clusterfuck that FFXI is in FFXIV. At least, I hope we don't, but I do hope that the crafting disciplines have just as an important place in them.

[Malacite]

Re: Site update discussion

The only identity FF "jobs" have had after FFVI is via FFVII's Limit Break style.

When was the last time you played 9 BBQ? >_>

Also, FF12 international actually did have a job system but we never got that version of the game. You chose one of 6 jobs I believe at the beginning for each character and were stuck with it for better or worse.

---------- Post added at 12:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 AM ----------

Renaming some of the jobs or, more accurately, just returning them to old names is one means of trying to get you to move away from connecting it to FFXI. I think moving crafters into the realm of being legitimate jobs is another step in that process. I think that's also a means of setting a new tone. The crafting jobs are going to be extremely important to the other half of the game's jobs.

As I said in my previous post, they are using familiar themes while simultaneously crafting a genuinely different experience from XI. Again referring to the book, the example given was how Starbucks had a completely different look and feel to it. Different names for every product, a wide variety of coffees etc etc. That's the point SE is really trying to drive home with XIV; It's not XI 2.0, it is XIV.

---------- Post added at 01:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 AM ----------

And how does that affect the game's atmosphere? With 50% of the jobs not really being major combat roles, that's really going to change what kind of content we'll be seeing. We may not see the endgame clusterfuck that FFXI is in FFXIV. At least, I hope we don't, but I do hope that the crafting disciplines have just as an important place in them.

I'd say it's fairly obvious they will. Tanaka himself as said as such, and with all the effort they are putting into the new crafting system (you can play the game just being a craftsman which is pretty cool) it's hard to envision otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if we started seeing people coming to events on their crafting jobs so they can keep people in the fight.

Think about it for a moment. Right now in XI, you have your tanking party, DD party etc and they all just do their thing. If people die, they're raised, wait 5 minutes and jump back in. Things are going to be vastly different in XIV, especially in prolonged fights. The tank is going to be steadily taking more damage and likely keeping hate less efficiently as his gear takes a beating alongside his HP. The same goes for the DPS jobs since their weapons will likely degrade faster against such high level targets (this is only an assumption on my part but it makes sense to me. Higher level = stronger target = more swings to kill = more degredation)


Shit we may even see some mobs that can degrade certain weapons & armor faster than others, which would be neat. Take for example a skeleton enemy or anything with an exterior that could be considered heavy armor or resistant; What happens when you are repeatedly slashing something that's made to resist slash damage? You'll probably get dents and knicks in your blades a lot faster than hitting something soft & fleshy. As such bludgeoning tools would be necessary for blunt trauma.

Again, no confirmation on just how complex combat will be in XIV but they want to make it more strategic and this is just one way of doing it. The other thing I was thinking and would personally make me quite happy is a return to the "Air Strike" format for SMN

We already know there are no pet jobs in the game, and that the summons will be back as a major part of the story. However we also know there will be some cases where you will be fighting many enemies at once such as the scene on the boat. >.> this is the perfect excuse to bring SMN back to classic form, since it didn't work in XI due to the disproportionate power level of monsters which lead to fighting one at a time.

Or they could just leave that in BLM's hands again, but it would be a nice little bit of fan service on their part ^^

They can call it whatever the hell they want too, I just wanna see some Megaflare pwnage again

[Pwnagraphic]

Re: Site update discussion

but I can make Lulu a fearsome melee

What?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Site update discussion

What?

It can be done.

[Balfree]

Re: Site update discussion

With little effort too...