So how will weapon/armour degredation benefit crafters?

[Kailea]

Re: So how will weapon/armour degredation benefit crafters?

its still a gamble none the less, you place an item down and gamble weather its going to come out "good" or "bad" of course those words depends on your job, and the time. Well knowing that the odds are against you.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: So how will weapon/armour degredation benefit crafters?

Considering that you have to grind for that bullshit ON TOP OF having time restrictions between tries, there's no way you can cover SE's ass by diverting the blame to the players. I don't think we even know if there's any correlation to what you might get besides the level of the gear traded.

There is no "have to." Its optional content.

We don't really have any test results other than people QQing about how random it seems. It would be easy enough for groups to do tests, but then, there's a lot of other things in the game that could be tested, too.

Every time people run around screaming "Random" about some new system, they're eating their words just about a year or two later. Sky drops were "random," as were Sea drops. Then Salvage was acclaimed just as arbitrary. That's all until we do find the rhyme and reason behind these things and what gear drops do, though

[QUOTE=MhurronUsually when you play a game of luck, you know what your betting on. You don't usually slap down money for what ever the lottery commission decides to give you that day.[/QUOTE]

O Rly?

So if we play a game of Blackjack, we already know the outcome? Do we know the hand is going to have a split before the cards are dealt? Do we know for sure that we can/should double down before they're dealt? We can do the math based on our bets of what the possible reward outcomes are based on how the game functions, but we don't know for certain which outcome it will be.

If the conditions of FoV are less arbitrary than they're believed to be, we could say much the same for it. Thing is the "testing" so far is just checking obvious time/place/day/weather details with the item used when there are lots of other variables that could determine the outcome.

[Neverslip]

Re: So how will weapon/armour degredation benefit crafters?

S-E apologist bullshit aside, they failed hard with the FoV augments. If I'm going to have to earn 450 tags in order to pop a challenging NM I really don't want detrimental effects augmenting on to an item I can no longer sell.

I totally agree... just based on what I've gotten as a "reward" from the Behemoth Dominion NM I haven't really felt the need to waste time + tabs again. Best I've gotten is for Crow Hose w/ VIT +1 & Sleep Resist +1. I've stopped doing them entirely after that... but think you can still NPC the augmented items... I think. I swear I sold off several failsauce Battle Gloves (+1 wind on one, +1Str/-1Dex&Agi on other) to a NPC in Sandy.

Ontopic>>> I'm not a fan of degrading gearz. Never have been. I like my toys invulnerable, thank you. Personally, I don't find repairing or making gear fun. I play fantasy games for the fantasy of killing made up monsters and following fantastic storylines. If I wanted to repair gear and make weapons, I can go to a Ren-fair and do so in RL. Being an imaginary repairman for a bunch of 'leet e-peens at a huge battle, fun?...not so much. Not to me. Hopefully SE comes up with something equally enticing for us straight up warriors of the imaginary to wet our appetites.

... as of yet the only thing that has impressed me at all regarding FFxiv is the CSs we've seen in trailers... but the leaked gameplay video (though low in quality) did the exact opposite of "impressing" me. I'm awaiting more information on FFxiv before I make too much of a judgement cuz it seems to me that alot of what the community "knows", the community is viewing through FFxi shaded glasses. Not saying everyone but it seems like people talk about FFxiv as though it is FFxi2.0. Aside from the races being similar and FF being in the title, I believe FFxiv will be an entirely different animal when compared w/ FFxi.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: So how will weapon/armour degredation benefit crafters?

Ontopic>>> I'm not a fan of degrading gearz. Never have been. I like my toys invulnerable, thank you. Personally, I don't find repairing or making gear fun. I play fantasy games for the fantasy of killing made up monsters and following fantastic storylines. If I wanted to repair gear and make weapons, I can go to a Ren-fair and do so in RL. Being an imaginary repairman for a bunch of 'leet e-peens at a huge battle, fun?...not so much. Not to me. Hopefully SE comes up with something equally enticing for us straight up warriors of the imaginary to wet our appetites.

What makes you think they'd make a totally different system that allows people to be an exception to the rule? Give people the choice between degradable and non-degradable and we just have the same problem we had in FFXI. Permanence is what taints the system.

[Durahansolo]

Re: So how will weapon/armour degredation benefit crafters?

So if we play a game of Blackjack, we already know the outcome?

I think what Mhurron is saying that you know what the stakes are (For example you know how much the bet is so you know what to expect in winnings or losings). Until the pattern is figured out (If there even is one) it is basically just a luck of the draw. You have no idea what you are getting, you only know what other people have gotten and reported that they've gotten. (You might get something similar or you may get something better or triple worse) It'd be cool if they had it set up similar to the way they did the weapon quests. That way you could trade something and if you didn't like the outcome you could have a chance to redo the fight and get a better augment.

[Neverslip]

Re: So how will weapon/armour degredation benefit crafters?

What makes you think they'd make a totally different system that allows people to be an exception to the rule?

What makes you think I was specifically talking about making up for degradable gearz w/in the spectrum of gearz? I wasn't specifically speaking of making another set of rules for people who didn't want to play. Given that this is the way it'll be, there is no arguing against it... why bother? I was just hoping for anything that might offset the negative aspect of degradable gearz to those who find crafting tedious and boring. As it stands for me now... FFxiv is a game that is very enticing for crafters and sounds costly for adventurers, so I ask myself "what's gonna be in this game that entices me to deal with that?" So far that I've seen/read... not much.

[Takelli]

Re: So how will weapon/armour degredation benefit crafters?

As it stands for me now... FFxiv is a game that is very enticing for crafters and sounds costly for adventurers,

Are you forgetting that crafters are actual jobs this time around? The black smith could just very well be an adventurer just like the warrior.

They could use a hammer as a weapon and shield/plate mail for their armor. They could be FFXIV's version of a Paladin, just with out magic for all you know. They could be the FFXIV's version of a Drk, or even a Bst for all you know, but with crafting skills along with melee skills. They did say that crafters can fight as well.

You can adventure as a crafter and level them up just like an adventuere if you wanted so you can craft/repair your own items. I highly doubt that SE would make it so that you cant repair/craft your own items if needed.

[Neverslip]

Re: So how will weapon/armour degredation benefit crafters?

Are you forgetting that crafters are actual jobs this time around? The black smith could just very well be an adventurer just like the warrior.

This has occurred to me. And that is most likely how I see the CrafterJob hybrid aspect panning out. And that's cool. But that sure as hell doesn't entice me. Again... I, like many others, am still making judgements on that yet to be released game based on what I know of ffxi and the result doesn't seem all that fun to me. As we learn more, I really hope there will be some aspects that entice me.

[DakAttack]

Re: So how will weapon/armour degredation benefit crafters?

Me, me, me...

[Armando]

Re: So how will weapon/armour degredation benefit crafters?

There is no "have to." Its optional content.

Missed the point entirely. I was referring to the fact that it takes Tabs to try to shoot yourself in the foo-I mean, augment your items. And it's not exactly a trivial amount of tabs either - you're looking at two Sky regimes for the level 50 cap augments, which yielded nothing but garbage stats and elemental resistance. 3 Sky regimes for the Lv.75 cap augments. So that's 2-3 hours every day if you want to try daily. God have mercy on you if you're also grinding towards Campaign at the same time.

That's a rather disproportionate amount of work for the rewards you're hoping to get.

We don't really have any test results other than people QQing about how random it seems.

I have no clue what you're talking about. BG has a thread for Augments, and people also reported what they got in FFXIClopedia. And that thread was really, really busy when Augments came out. I followed that shit for the first few weeks and didn't see any patterns. I continued to check on it sporadically for the next month or two and people still had no fucking clue.

Every time people run around screaming "Random" about some new system, they're eating their words just about a year or two later. Sky drops were "random," as were Sea drops. Then Salvage was acclaimed just as arbitrary. That's all until we do find the rhyme and reason behind these things and what gear drops do, though

If you want to assert that there is a pattern or trick to this, and that it simply takes one to two years to find it, then you have no choice but to concede that they failed at implementing a system that encourages people to augment their items and remove them from circulation. It's laughable to even compare this to Sky or Salvage; the potential rewards aren't all that impressive even if you do luck out.

[Mhurron]

Re: So how will weapon/armour degredation benefit crafters?

O Rly?

So if we play a game of Blackjack, we already know the outcome?

Even you can't be that stupid.

You know what you're playing for. In blackjack you're playing for the pot that has accumulated. You measure your risks in hitting or standing based on how big or small the reward is and assuming no cheating, your odds aren't really that bad if you play the game right. In a lottery, you slap down money for a known reward. The odds against you are astronomical so the entry fee is small, essentially there is no risk to you.

Augmenting doesn't work that way. You work disproportionately for the rewards (and I use the term reward very loosely) which are unknown with no known way of influencing the outcome. Augmenting is picking the mystery box and hoping for a boat when you could just pick the boat outright. You have to have the intellegence of Peter Griffin to think this is a good setup. As it stands, augmenting anything beyond the cheapest of gear is really quite stupid.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: So how will weapon/armour degredation benefit crafters?

If you want to assert that there is a pattern or trick to this, and that it simply takes one to two years to find it, then you have no choice but to concede that they failed at implementing a system that encourages people to augment their items and remove them from circulation. It's laughable to even compare this to Sky or Salvage; the potential rewards aren't all that impressive even if you do luck out.

I was showing an example where players asserted things made no sense and were random, go back and look at one of Bercus' "interviews" regarding Sea content for reference. They didn't know the conditions or value to the loot, at the time, they just asserted it was arbitrary when that wasn't the case. That could be the case with this system as well.

At any rate, this is getting off the topic of FFXIV's system. If we changed FFXI's system to what FFXIV's will be, there would be no end to the whining and gnashing of teeth regarding that change. People would likely even quit over such an adjustment. This is why I said SE's tried their best, it wasn't to say their solution was the best, but that they had tried to develop a means to remove items from the system. When they announced the system, I saw a gamble, that's where my outlook on it comes from. It is a gamble. you put up your points and gear for a chance and augmented gear.

Even if we had a system where the "effort = reward" mentality prevailed, I guarantee you that system would fail just as hard because item permanence has tainted the system. No one would risk an HQ on it and if the NQ was sought-after as well, no players would give that up. It mystifies me personally, I'd be more than happy to throw my elemental staves and level cap bows at it just out of curiosity, these are things I'm never going to sell and I doubt much bad would happen to them. Think I already threw two bows at it.

[Armando]

Re: So how will weapon/armour degredation benefit crafters?

Even if we had a system where the "effort = reward" mentality prevailed, I guarantee you that system would fail just as hard because item permanence has tainted the system. No one would risk an HQ on it and if the NQ was sought-after as well, no players would give that up. It mystifies me personally, I'd be more than happy to throw my elemental staves and level cap bows at it just out of curiosity, these are things I'm never going to sell and I doubt much bad would happen to them. Think I already threw two bows at it.

I don't know about that. Perhaps it wouldn't yield such a revolutionary change in the economy as one would hope, but I recall seeing a couple of screenshots of people that tried to augment Snipers. I think Callisto was gonna try throwing in some expensive shit too. In fact a lot of the initial hype was that sort of thing - "omg omg what if I can augment my Haub." I'd say there's enough people desperate/crazy/daring enough to go for it if there's a non-negligible (>5%) chance of getting lucky in one shot.

[Malacite]

Re: So how will weapon/armour degredation benefit crafters?

Real weapons to wear-and-tear.

Not as much as you might think actually. As a friend and I were discussing one day, any sword that needed repair even after 1 fight was basically garbage. It actually does take some effort to whittle down a good piece of armor or a weapon lol (regularly sharpening the blade however was standard practice.)


I'm curious how they will approach R/EX gear for repairs. It certainly would suck if say, you have a high level WAR & BLM, but due to the skill cap you've only been able to get your skills high enough to repair your epic WAR gear. Perhaps they will make trade exceptions, or come up with a new system solely for doing repair work? Quite frankly I don't like the notion of handing an item over to another player to have it fixed in the first place and if they could find some alternate means of accomplishing this that would rock.

[Armando]

Re: So how will weapon/armour degredation benefit crafters?

Not as much as you might think actually. As a friend and I were discussing one day, any sword that needed repair even after 1 fight was basically garbage. It actually does take some effort to whittle down a good piece of armor or a weapon lol (regularly sharpening the blade however was standard practice.)

I don't think anyone thinks medieval/renaissance weapons broke in a single fight . I doubt we'll be seeing weapons breaking in a single outing in XIV. But you can't bang metal against metal and expect not to get nicks and blunting. Part of the reason people used bucklers and main gauches instead of parrying everything with the sword Hollywood-style was to conserve the blade.

Now when you put it in the context of a fantasy world where you're not just up against armored opponents but also giant dragons and behemoths, and you regularly get nuked or frozen, and you have a habit of setting your sword on fire or coating it in water, it's not hard to see how your shit would eventually break.