What, no levels?

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

Re: What, no levels?

What happens when you equip a club + sword? Seems like Malacite's kind of epic (I won't lie -- mine too).

OMG! Why didn't I think about mixing weapons when dual wielding. I suppose you'd only be able to skill up the class associated with your main weapon.

While we're at it, why don't we allow the use of two 2h weapons. You'd still have slower action gauges for each hand. Your DoT wouldn't increase, but your ability to parry would decrease. Also then you could use a tower shield and a spear. Granted it would look really awkward to wield both a great sword and a great axe, but you'd get access to both sets of abilities. Katana + Great Katana FTW!

Shields with the Action Gauge (Ideas)
Timer - smaller shields have a quicker timer which allows you to use an action more frequently
Blocking - choosing to block has a high percentage of success; smaller shields block a smaller fixed amount
Deflecting - choosing to deflect has a smaller percentage of success, but a smaller shield is able to potentially deflect a harder hit similar to parrying

Now if you are using a small shield against a quick, weak enemy you would choose to block. If you were using a small shield against a slow, strong enemy, you'd choose to defect. Using a larger shield against a quick enemies would prove less effective than using a smaller shield.

This action gauge system could be made amazing. ^_^

[Coinspinner]

Re: What, no levels?

Anyone else been thinking about these things:

Why give each class in the alpha a different race and different armor but the same HP & MP?
I'm thinking they are currently manually creating the characters, so they just picked race, armor, abilities, weapon, HP, and MP.

Probably. To me it also suggests that HP and MP growth is separate from skill growth, sex, or race.

Why group classes into disciplines?

Possibly...

...to sort them by style of gameplay.

...to divide them by armor type.

...to separate melee and magic, and avoid hybrids.

...to ensure that players can max out both a fighter and sorcerer if they implement a seesaw effect.

What class or discipline would you expect for the following weapons: staff, pole, wand or rod, hammer or maul, mace, club or cudgel, scythe, and katana?

Magic: Pole, wand, and rod.

War: Mace, club, and katana.

Land: Scythe.

Hand: Hammer.

If weapons determine your class, how do shields work?

I guess as weapons, with their own skill level and abilities and functionally similar to dual-wield.

Would parry and dodge be actions which allow you to change from playing offensively to defensively when you take hate?

There was a shield block ability in the demo. It's easy to imagine a parry, dodge or counter ability as well.

[Armando]

Re: What, no levels?

Time to fill my dick quotient.

While we're at it, why don't we allow the use of two 2h weapons.

Because it's a stupid concept (not saying anything about the gameplay aspect of it) that looks stupider still in practice. If there's anything I've always liked about all the Akihiko Yoshida works in, is that he always sticks to equipment depictions that are as realistic as a fantasy-based game can get. This ain't WoW.

No dual Scythes, no dual Great Axe, no dual Great Sword, no dual Lance, or any permutation of two of those elements. Advent Children gave me enough disbelief to last me a decade.

There are, of course, weapons that can legitimately be used one-handed or two-handed ("great" Katana, bastard swords, some spears.) But, then, labeling these as "two-handed" weapons is extremely misleading.

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

Re: What, no levels?

There are, of course, weapons that can legitimately be used one-handed or two-handed ("great" Katana, bastard swords, some spears.) But, then, labeling these as "two-handed" weapons is extremely misleading.

Ah, so perhaps they could have abilities which require a free second hand with some weapons. For instance you won't be parrying with a shield and spear, but you could with just a spear. Also I could see getting other benefits from using a 1h/2h weapon in 2h compared to in 1h. Enhance the contributions from attributes just like FFXI for instance.

Because it's a stupid concept (not saying anything about the gameplay aspect of it) that looks stupider still in practice.

You have to admit that it is an easy way to alter your combat style for a battle and potentially combine multiple classes. Totally agree it would look horrible on anything except the Roegadyn.

Possibly...

...to sort them by style of gameplay.

...to divide them by armor type.

...to separate melee and magic, and avoid hybrids.

...to ensure that players can max out both a fighter and sorcerer if they implement a seesaw effect.

Yeah, first two ideas make sense to me. I suppose the third makes sense if some abilities are shared across classes within the same discipline. The forth idea would be unlikely with the statements made by Tanaka about allowing players to explore every class completely.

I guess as weapons, with their own skill level and abilities and functionally similar to dual-wield.

Yeah, I suppose they could let your shield skill up separately. Just annoying for two shield users who quest together, but it makes sense to raise shield skill only if you use it.

Guildleve quests were said to increase the rate of your growth, so how do they do this if you can use multiple classes to complete one?
I'm guessing combat skill is earned similar to xp. You have to kill monsters of an appropriate level and monsters from the quest give a bonus. Sad that I wouldn't get any skill from healing myself between fights, but that would open up many possibilities for abuse. However, this might mean your shield skill could increase without even using it.

[Cyprius]

Re: What, no levels?

Btw, about job changing any time being too easy...

I hope this isn't referring to me.. Because in no way did I mention that changing jobs was too easy.

[Armando]

Re: What, no levels?

You have to admit that it is an easy to alter your combat style for a battle and potentially combine multiple classes.

Yes, that is true; That still doesn't mean they should do it.

As for shields and dual wield, I'd imagine that your class dictates what goes into your other hand. It's possible that the class that corresponds to dagger can only equip a second dagger, and not a shield, for example.

I don't want to see dual wield as a general melee trait. Much less if you can use abilities from the second weapon without any penalties to it.

[Bricklayer]

Re: What, no levels?

Magic: Pole, wand, and rod.

War: Mace, club, and katana.

Land: Scythe.

Hand: Hammer.

So, something like:

Magic: Staff (Thaumaturge), Rod (Black Mage), etc.

War: Sword (Gladiator), Axe (Berserker?), etc.

Land: Scythe (Harvester), Fishing Pole (Fisherman), Saw? (Logger?), etc.

Hand: Hammer (Blacksmith), Frying Pan? (Cook), etc.

Perhaps taking on a Discipline would be analogous to selecting a craft to take to 100, but it would apply to all jobs? But then, would that mean a crafter wouldn't be able to function in a party full of veteran (above highest base level) warriors/mages?

Coinspinner also brought up The Last Remnant. This was the first thing I thought of when reading about FFXIV's system. Your "class" in TLR changes depending on (I think) what actions you take in battle (combat arts/mystic arts). Someone with evenly distributed choices may be a freelancer (expert, veteran, etc.), whereas someone who selects only combat each time, or only mystic each time, may become a specialized class. Class changes frequently (sometimes after each battle). You get new skills the more you use old skills in battle (again, conjecture). I would think FFXIV would give you much more control over your character's development (which skills you get, which job you are, etc.), but perhaps this is a way that EXP would be eliminated. Instead of reaching a clearly-defined goal (10000 xp), you would just grind mobs (or craft/HELM) to go from Novice -> Amateur -> Veteran -> Elite...

[Nuriko]

Re: What, no levels?

Description of the Disciplines brings to mind Ryzom's system, but it's still far too broad ... still, that sort of system just might bring me over to FFXIV.

[Pwnagraphic]

Re: What, no levels?

Time to fill my dick quotient.Because it's a stupid concept (not saying anything about the gameplay aspect of it) that looks stupider still in practice. If there's anything I've always liked about all the Akihiko Yoshida works in, is that he always sticks to equipment depictions that are as realistic as a fantasy-based game can get. This ain't WoW.

No dual Scythes, no dual Great Axe, no dual Great Sword, no dual Lance, or any permutation of two of those elements. Advent Children gave me enough disbelief to last me a decade.

There are, of course, weapons that can legitimately be used one-handed or two-handed ("great" Katana, bastard swords, some spears.) But, then, labeling these as "two-handed" weapons is extremely misleading.

I agree with Armando here. Even for a Galka, dual wielding a great axe and a great sword seems a bit too unrealistic even for a fantasy game lol,

[Takelli]

Re: What, no levels?

I agree with Armando here. Even for a Galka, dual wielding a great axe and a great sword seems a bit too unrealistic even for a fantasy game lol,

Not if it was a Tarus 2 handed weapon.

[Kailea]

Re: What, no levels?

Not if it was a Tarus 2 handed weapon.

but then it would just be a one handed weapon for the Galka -.-

[Evion]

Re: What, no levels?

If you wanted to use a two-handed spear and a tower shield for sentinel/guardian style fighting, you'd have to make it a one-handed short spear. Otherwise, I'd want to main-hand my scythe and off-hand a tower shield...

[Pwnagraphic]

Re: What, no levels?

Not if it was a Tarus 2 handed weapon.

That would be kinda bad ass.. All you see is these two great swords moving behind a rock and then out pops a taru.

[Tickmeoff]

Re: What, no levels?

Because it's a stupid concept (not saying anything about the gameplay aspect of it) that looks stupider still in practice. If there's anything I've always liked about all the Akihiko Yoshida works in, is that he always sticks to equipment depictions that are as realistic as a fantasy-based game can get. This ain't WoW.

To be fair, the ability to dual wield 2h weapons has been in Final Fantasy longer than it's been in WoW. I believe the skill was called Monkey Grip?

[Armando]

Re: What, no levels?

Yeah, but it's always been in FFs with small sprite-based graphics, so you wouldn't realize how stupid it would actually look in full detail 3D.

I was mainly mocking WoW's absurd and oversized weapon/armor design more so than Monkey Grip anyways.