What you don't want to see in FFXIV...

[Amberly]

Re: What you don't want to see in FFXIV...

(Title of thread) is who is responsible for making this thread.

[Cyprius]

Re: What you don't want to see in FFXIV...

*in a PT*

"Hey guys, brb for a sec, I gotta go to the bathroom"

->"Ok"

*come back 2 minutes later, dead, and dropped from pt*

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What you don't want to see in FFXIV...

By safety, though, I'm thinking "less likelihood that we're gonna die," not "not taking chances/making changes."

One begets the other.

If you want something safer, that means you don't want risks. If you don't want risk, you want a sure thing and the sure things are generally more efficient than risky ones, aren't they?

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: What you don't want to see in FFXIV...

Laying the blame at the player's feet for choosing optimal experience camps over other more varied, and often problematic, ones is a very old and weak argument. It excludes the factor of experience points loss and levelling down and assumes that S-E are oblivious to the levelling trends of the playerbase. Karinya already pointed the finger at people who adopt a min/max approach as haijin when ironically people who have limited playtime are just as likely, if not moreso, to want to maximise their experience gaining potential.

Additionally, in a game so massively dependent on currency, longer parties with a low experience gain are not just detrimental to your patience but also your wallet. I've often come to blows with people when I was levelling ninja, and more recently corsair, when I've literally turned round and told them I couldn't justify continuing when I weighed the costs of my tools/ammo against the exp/hour. When your ammo is 20k a stack and you're normally going through two to level you tend to get really concerned when you're into your fourth and you still haven't dinged.

[Takelli]

Re: What you don't want to see in FFXIV...

generally more efficient than risky ones, aren't they?

Not all the time. Some times taking risks can yeild more experiance IRL(AKA, learn how to deal with what happened, how to dgo about it next time and so on.). But, in game, it doesn't as its the way that the game was programmed. The riskier something is, the better reward you should get. So, on Colibri, exp should stay the same, but the stuff that gives tons of stat downs, and other stuff should yeild more exp (Tigers with Paralyzra lol)

[cidbahamut]

Re: What you don't want to see in FFXIV...

Laying the blame at the player's feet for choosing optimal experience camps over other more varied, and often problematic, ones is a very old and weak argument. It excludes the factor of experience points loss and levelling down and assumes that S-E are oblivious to the levelling trends of the playerbase. Karinya already pointed the finger at people who adopt a min/max approach as haijin when ironically people who have limited playtime are just as likely, if not moreso, to want to maximise their experience gaining potential.

Additionally, in a game so massively dependent on currency, longer parties with a low experience gain are not just detrimental to your patience but also your wallet. I've often come to blows with people when I was levelling ninja, and more recently corsair, when I've literally turned round and told them I couldn't justify continuing when I weighed the costs of my tools/ammo against the exp/hour. When your ammo is 20k a stack and you're normally going through two to level you tend to get really concerned when you're into your fourth and you still haven't dinged.

I don't know, I see it more as a difference in preference of playstyles. The folks who set up shop at standard camps are interested in exp, whereas folks who try to venture off the beaten path are looking for new experiences and adventure rather than an hourly rate of exp. Some people want to level up really fast, I on the other hand want to go explore the world with some friends.

Your ammo cost argument is probably the most solid reasoning for sticking to standard camps I've heard. I can't fault it.

[Aksannyi]

Re: What you don't want to see in FFXIV...

Yeah but he has a valid point. When you're on your first job, you'll enjoy the ride xping all the way to 75. You'll go anywhere a group takes you and you'll just roll with it. Perhaps on your second or third job, too.

Starting around the fifth or higher job, you start to get really tired of xping. You've done it before, you've experienced most camps, you just want to get your job leveled. Yeah, it's probably a jaded outlook, but grinding xp in this game really is a long and tedious process. I've experienced it four times now. I don't need to go to Bibiki Bay for the experience for the fifth job. I've done that. Just take me to birds where we can wail mindlessly on them and get the most xp/hr we can so that I can finish yet another job I really just want to get endgame-ready anyway.

Seriously, the shine wears off the exp path after you've done it enough times. BLM was somewhat interesting because so much of it was solo, but seriously by the fifth time, I'm not doing it for the experience of taking another job through the levels, I'm doing it so I can get it to endgame and gear it for more variety at linkshell events.

Maybe some people are into that. For me, I've done it before, and I experienced quite a lot on my road to 75 as a RDM, and even a little as a WHM. Once I started working seriously on my WAR, I was done with the side-camps and the "let's try this such place" and I felt like I could be picky about camps because face it, I was over it. Just over it.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: What you don't want to see in FFXIV...

Starting around the fifth or higher job, you start to get really tired of xping. You've done it before, you've experienced most camps, you just want to get your job leveled. Yeah, it's probably a jaded outlook, but grinding xp in this game really is a long and tedious process. I've experienced it four times now. I don't need to go to Bibiki Bay for the experience for the fifth job. I've done that. Just take me to birds where we can wail mindlessly on them and get the most xp/hr we can so that I can finish yet another job I really just want to get endgame-ready anyway.

Is it really worth leveling the job in the first place if you are unable to stand gaining experience in it, though? Just another mindless grind to endure purely for the sake of having more endgame versatility?

This might be a bit jaded as well, but from where I am standing, you don't appear to be "over" anything.

Addendum: I really like this essay from JPButton. I am reminded of the portion at the end:

For example, if equipment is all you seek, then getting the latest and greatest pieces to enhance your character keeps you logging in everyday. Defeating monsters nets the player new equipment, which in turn makes them more efficient at defeating monsters, which they need to beat to get new equipment. It is like Chaos and Garland, and endless cycle in which one seeks to eternally be the best, a goal that can only be pursued, but never obtained.

Some players like to level extra fast. They need to reach the final level of 75 to enjoy the game. But what are they leaving behind? In Final Fantasy II, characters improved by using certain actions that were linked with specific stats. It turns out the most efficient way to “skill up” was to attack your own party and gain power at the expense of your comrades. When you rush to the top, who are you leaving behind? To gain power quickly, one may jettison a few friends that don’t play useful jobs, or maybe cannot login often enough. To help oneself, a player may find hurting others is the most efficient course of action.

[Kailea]

Re: What you don't want to see in FFXIV...

DRG was first to 75, because I am a Kain fanboy lol....

next was DNC, because it was fun

now I am doing PLD< because I love tanking

and last I am doing RNG, because I like bows


get my pitcure? ;p

[Aksannyi]

Re: What you don't want to see in FFXIV...

Maybe if xping didn't take so long from start to finish. But when it takes me three hours to get one level some nights, yeah, I'm over it. I play at endgame, I don't play at midgame. (Mostly because there is nothing to do at midgame)

Leveling any job is a means to an end for most players. People who say that they're just leveling for the sake of it are rare, almost everyone is leveling to get to a certain point and then be finished with that job in that respect. At that point, the job becomes useful for any intended purpose - subjob, endgame play, Maat's cap perhaps. People don't level just to level ... perhaps some do, but most are using leveling as a vehicle for getting the job ready for a specific purpose.

This might be a bit jaded as well, but from where I am standing, you don't appear to be "over" anything.

Not entirely sure what you mean by that.

[cidbahamut]

Re: What you don't want to see in FFXIV...

Maybe it's because I'm still new, but I'd say the lack of midgame is at least in part because everyone's so eager to rush to the endgame. Then again I sometimes think I'm the only player on my server who's playing for the first time and not just returning after a three year hiatus.

[Takelli]

Re: What you don't want to see in FFXIV...

Maybe it's because I'm still new, but I'd say the lack of midgame is at least in part because everyone's so eager to rush to the endgame. Then again I sometimes think I'm the only player on my server who's playing for the first time and not just returning after a three year hiatus.

Well... There is "mid game", but even then, you have to be a higher lvl to even get anything out of it. Campaign and Beseiged. To get anything good out of campaign, you need to be atleast lvl 65+, and Besieged... lvl 60+.

This game has nothing thats fun for lower lvls which really sucks. I do hope that SE learned their mistake when they made FFXIV, and put in some lower lvl stuff. Like low lvl Besiged type stuff, and raids, not just those boring events...

[Aksannyi]

Re: What you don't want to see in FFXIV...

Mid level raids and dungeons would definitely be cool, but it could just end up being like WoW where people don't really do those except for gathering achievement points. They're not something people do regularly, and even if people do go out and do them, they go with a bunch of level 80s and maybe a couple low-mid levels.

Even assaults, which can be capped to 50 (I think, or is it 60?) are never really done below 75. I love the assault style points concept, doing those and gathering points for it, but they could limit it in some way to make it so that you have to play at mid-levels to accomplish them.

It's definitely another community failure (though who can really expect that it wouldn't be? Go with my endgame gear and merits, or without? Come on...) in that no one wants to do things that way. And that's why I say there's no midgame. Because no one wants to play at midgame. They all want to get to endgame, or at least to the level cap where some aspects of endgame open up, or just where they'll be accepted for minor things such as assault or Nyzul or ISNM or whatever.

It's not entirely a failing of the community or the devs, it's shared. But it's true that the mentality in most MMO games would be to get to the level cap or some other acceptable stopping point when raising a job. (In WoW, it's twinks, in FFXI, it's subjob level.) There are some who enjoy the path of leveling a job, or leveling every job, but I'd say the majority levels jobs so they can enjoy that job at endgame, and not necessarily to just enjoy the process of doing so.

---------- Post added at 09:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 PM ----------

That isn't to say that xping isn't fun, it's often very fun. But initially we were talking about the grind and how it's unchanging because people want their max xp/hr, and I mentioned that it's because you just want to get through it after the fifth or so time, and you can have fun while getting fast xp, and you don't need to explore the globe in search of different xp camps when you've done it already.

[Takelli]

Re: What you don't want to see in FFXIV...

That isn't to say that xping isn't fun, it's often very fun. But initially we were talking about the grind and how it's unchanging because people want their max xp/hr, and I mentioned that it's because you just want to get through it after the fifth or so time, and you can have fun while getting fast xp, and you don't need to explore the globe in search of different xp camps when you've done it already.

That is why I said that they need other stuff for low lvls, and mid lvls to do as well besides just end game. I would love to have other stuff to do. I have leveled a lot of jobs, and haven't had a real urge to actually play FFXI lately. I just sit there with my pc on, on the forums now, just talking to people. I will just sit there staring at the screen after I log in as its gotten boring to me as there is nothing to do at my level except for grinding, but I've been through it all, so its just boring.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: What you don't want to see in FFXIV...

This game has nothing thats fun for lower lvls which really sucks.

That's not necessarily true. There's plenty of stuff that can be done at lower levels, but quite a few of them assume you have a bunch of like-minded and similarly-leveled people with you. Even with the advent of Level Sync, higher level people will tend to be drawn to higher-level-minded events or doing events that can be done by a team of lower-level players with a team of endgame-level people.

I mean, there's been a lower-level besieged-type event in the game for as long as anyone can remember, been there for even longer than Besieged itself, and best part part of all, you can more-or-less control when the monsters show up. It's called Garrison, and good luck gathering a whole party for it, much less an entire alliance like you would optimally have.