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The *ahem* OFFICIAL "FINAL FANTASY XIV Online" Thread of Ultimate Anticipation!

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  • Re: The *ahem* OFFICIAL "FINAL FANTASY XIV Online" Thread of Ultimate Anticipation!

    On preparedness, not liking gear swapping doesn't mean you're opposed to it in the least. I would imagine the vast majority of people who are opposed to gear swapping as a mechanic still use it. Much in the same way that you can hate how GameStop has driven the mom-n-pop game stores in your town out of business, but still shop there because you don't have options left. That doesn't mean you wouldn't be happy if they went out of business, though.

    There are plenty of other ways SE could shake things up while still not having the absurdity that is gear swapping. You could have equipment with 'modes'-- for examples, imagine something like Cloud's FFVII:AC sword, or the katana in MGS2. A weapon that stays the same in form, but changes function. Hell, look at real life; if you want to cool off, you roll up your sleeves. In a game, this could be associated with lower defense, but higher agility or the like. A hypothetical example; a watch which can switch between increasing your accuracy (by making you 'focus' on the rhythm of the ticking), or could be sped up to increase Haste%. A black mage could have a tunic which decreases enmity and increases magic attack when the hood is up, or increases magic accuracy when down. Like those 'transition' lenses that are sensitive to UV light, you could have a pair of glasses that increases accuracy in bright situations. Shoes could be made to increase running speed and agility in one mode, and reduce knockback and bind in another. The possibilities are endless, and it would never be as absurd as instantaneously changing clothes in the middle of a battle, and the minmaxing that goes with it.

    You could have materia-like beads which are quickly swapped in and out of equipment, with small delays. You could have equipment have 'phases', where the player would switch their entire armor over to another setting, channel, phase, whatever you want to call it very quickly, but with varying drawbacks or advantages. You could even apply that on a party-wide level, and make it somewhat of a puzzle-- while your DRK is doing huge numbers and your PLD has the enmity to hold hate, your WHM's MP is being spent at three times the normal amount. While your mages are drowning in MP, your melees are hitting with all the effectiveness of a wooden stick.

    You could have 'machine' equipment, where you're given a certain number of points to allocate to systems; ever seen Star Trek? When you need energy for an all out attack, you push it there, when you need to put up shields before you're slaughtered, you do that. You could have 'maximums' in allocation, to make sure people don't push it too far; you could take it a step further and allow people to exceed the maximums for short periods of time, in exchange for overheating, or even destroying the armor (requiring it to be taken to a crafter, to an NPC in town, to an outpost, or some other system to repair it)

    You could have 'mood rings' which change based on your characters 'emotions'; which would be determined by what abilities you use, and how and when you use them. Using berserk and weapon skills would incline them towards fire elements and strength, etc. You could have them be job specific, and have very nice rewards for those that walk a fine line-- for example, a DD ring that increases damage by a large amount, if you manage to keep your character 'calm' by carefully balancing your use of abilities.

    The possibilities are huge. Gear swapping is a lazy system at best, absurd in practice, and an enemy of proper game balance at worst.

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    • Re: The *ahem* OFFICIAL "FINAL FANTASY XIV Online" Thread of Ultimate Anticipation!

      I would say if FFXIV had a "materia" based system, that would be rather interesting
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      Kain (FFIV): I am aware of my actions, but can do nothing about them.

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      • Re: The *ahem* OFFICIAL "FINAL FANTASY XIV Online" Thread of Ultimate Anticipation!

        I agree with Kailea. That would be interesting. It might just be FFVII online! XD

        But Gear swaping should be penalized, not to an extream as where you would have all your stats penalized, but the stats dont take affect for liek 10 seconds or so.

        But I do hope that there is no Gear Swapping allowed at all in FFXIV. I hate it in FFXi, and I will hate it in FFXIV, unless they put some sort of penalty on it. If they put it on it in FFXI, then it would be a nerf, but if they did it in FFXIV, it wont be a nerf.

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        • Re: The *ahem* OFFICIAL "FINAL FANTASY XIV Online" Thread of Ultimate Anticipation!

          Originally posted by Takelli View Post
          I agree with Kailea. That would be interesting. It might just be FFVII online! XD

          But Gear swaping should be penalized, not to an extream as where you would have all your stats penalized, but the stats dont take affect for liek 10 seconds or so.

          But I do hope that there is no Gear Swapping allowed at all in FFXIV. I hate it in FFXi, and I will hate it in FFXIV, unless they put some sort of penalty on it. If they put it on it in FFXI, then it would be a nerf, but if they did it in FFXIV, it wont be a nerf.
          they could do the penalty like they do in "PvP" lol, that would piss alot off ^.^
          -------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Kain (FFIV): I am aware of my actions, but can do nothing about them.

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          • Re: The *ahem* OFFICIAL "FINAL FANTASY XIV Online" Thread of Ultimate Anticipation!

            No one can move for 30 seconds after gear swapping? XD

            That would piss me off as well lol. I swap out gear for resting and such, but if I get aggro and that system is in place, I couldnt run and I'd die XD

            Edit: My Rdm set is made to be a balance between melee and magic for solo. But when I rest, I just have a Hmp, armor for when I want to cut down down time.

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            • Re: The *ahem* OFFICIAL "FINAL FANTASY XIV Online" Thread of Ultimate Anticipation!

              Originally posted by Takelli View Post
              No one can move for 30 seconds after gear swapping? XD

              That would piss me off as well lol. I swap out gear for resting and such, but if I get aggro and that system is in place, I couldnt run and I'd die XD

              Edit: My Rdm set is made to be a balance between melee and magic for solo. But when I rest, I just have a Hmp, armor for when I want to cut down down time.

              that's the point, it would make it to where you can gear swap, but who would really want to unless they where not in battle ;p
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              Kain (FFIV): I am aware of my actions, but can do nothing about them.

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              • Re: The *ahem* OFFICIAL "FINAL FANTASY XIV Online" Thread of Ultimate Anticipation!

                Hmm, the materia system...I don't think I would like it in an online setting, unless all the materia were reduced down to stats and effects instead of job like abilites and spells. But if you do it that way you are just then renaming Armando's idea.

                One thing I hope that isn't transfered over to FFXIV is the weapons link to class types. I really do not like the idea of a class can equip this. I agree with certian weapon skills being job specific and the increase of skills being faster for certian classes with a weapon but to out right they can't use it and it is not job specific? I think they should limit weapons by skills not by class. A person that uses a sword and cast alot of spells most likely is not going to want to just pick up a spear randomly but they should be able to. This is why I like FFXII lincense system. I did not like you having to buy access to weapons, but I did like that you could make a class combonation out of it. Like with Freya I had here excel in bows and spears. Now that system also allows a person to have everything with in enough time. So maybe a skill limit and in your mog house (Or what ever it will be called) You can save trees you have followed and then things you unlock in those can be used to equip to a new tree. So it would be alot like lvling to 30 then switching jobs. This idea came out alot more fuzzy then I intended but I am done typing for today.

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                • Re: The *ahem* OFFICIAL "FINAL FANTASY XIV Online" Thread of Ultimate Anticipation!

                  Originally posted by Sekighara View Post
                  Hmm, the materia system...I don't think I would like it in an online setting, unless all the materia were reduced down to stats and effects instead of job like abilites and spells. But if you do it that way you are just then renaming Armando's idea.

                  One thing I hope that isn't transfered over to FFXIV is the weapons link to class types. I really do not like the idea of a class can equip this. I agree with certian weapon skills being job specific and the increase of skills being faster for certian classes with a weapon but to out right they can't use it and it is not job specific? I think they should limit weapons by skills not by class. A person that uses a sword and cast alot of spells most likely is not going to want to just pick up a spear randomly but they should be able to. This is why I like FFXII lincense system. I did not like you having to buy access to weapons, but I did like that you could make a class combonation out of it. Like with Freya I had here excel in bows and spears. Now that system also allows a person to have everything with in enough time. So maybe a skill limit and in your mog house (Or what ever it will be called) You can save trees you have followed and then things you unlock in those can be used to equip to a new tree. So it would be alot like lvling to 30 then switching jobs. This idea came out alot more fuzzy then I intended but I am done typing for today.
                  its that way with alot... if not almost all games, a job class has their weapon they use. and by the deves talking about the "importance of the weapons" I can bet its going to be similar
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                  • Re: The *ahem* OFFICIAL "FINAL FANTASY XIV Online" Thread of Ultimate Anticipation!

                    Originally posted by Yellow Mage View Post
                    The problem with this is we wind up right back at square one: you swap or be gimped.

                    I shouldn't be punished just because the effort I put in to crafting a well-balanced armor set apparently doesn't count as "effort," in contrast to the guy who just hops on the bandwagon of having different gear for each individual action because it was deemed as more effective.
                    That's like saying a Rdm who is trying to do everything shouldn't be penalized when compared to someone who's focusing on a single task. It takes a lot less "effort" to craft a single "well-balanced" armor set then it does to craft multiple sets to enhance your job's every role. So why should taking the easier path produce similar or better results then the one that's more difficult? Why should the Jack of all, master of none be better then the specialized set-up?

                    Originally posted by Kaziel0 View Post
                    Referencing the HQ staves brings up a related point to gear swapping that I have: Lack of progression in gear. By looking at specific roles of certain gear instead of a more balanced approach, you find gear being used much longer than it might otherwise be. HQ staves are a stellar example of this... As a caster RDM, when you hit 51 and upgrade to the Elemental Staves, you've pretty much just gotten your last weapon upgrade, except for upgrading to HQ Elemental Staves. That's 24 levels with nothing better. The Peacock Charm is even worse. Assuming you are going for ACC in your neck (not unreasonable with a whopping +10 ACC), you can first equip the PCC at level 33, and there's not an upgrade to it for a stunning 41 levels, until you can get the Ancient Torque (assuming you can get/afford it).

                    There's something to be said to gaining access to new better gear as you gain more levels, and it's kinda depressing when you reach about 2/3rds to max level and suddenly you have the or one of the best in slot item(s) for either a given role or in the HQ staves case, for every spell one would cast.
                    And what about all the examples of clear and present gear progression? Elemental Staves are a terrible blight on this game because they're so good so early with no way to beat them, but every other job has clear and visible gear progression as they level. Yes there are a few key pieces which can last you 20, 30, 70 levels, but there's still plenty of things you can replace as you go.

                    Originally posted by Feba View Post
                    On preparedness, not liking gear swapping doesn't mean you're opposed to it in the least. I would imagine the vast majority of people who are opposed to gear swapping as a mechanic still use it. ...*snip*...
                    The possibilities are huge. Gear swapping is a lazy system at best, absurd in practice, and an enemy of proper game balance at worst.
                    That's the issue though, no one has suggested to keep gear swapping as it is now, and it's generally agreed upon that the entire mechanic of it is broken. People have suggested alternate methods of gear based stat manipulation, but at this point the discussion seems more about whether being able to min/max on the fly at all should be in the game or not. Hell, there have been ideas suggested that don't even use visible gear as a stat based system, but as something you choose just for looks. So while there are plenty of options to gear swapping, the dilemma that has arisen now is whether or not we should be able to change our stats at all during combat.

                    Which personally, I would prefer it greatly if we could.
                    "I have a forebrain, my ability to abstract thoughts allow for all kinds of things" - Red Mage 8-Bit theater

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                    • Re: The *ahem* OFFICIAL "FINAL FANTASY XIV Online" Thread of Ultimate Anticipation!

                      I just have to say I completely agree with Armando here.

                      Personally, I don't think gear swapping really adds anything to the game. In FFXI it's, in my opinion, a necessary evil you have to do simply because you can. I don't think manipulating your stats on the fly is suitable for a universal game feature, but should rather be contained in abilities. Warriors in FFXI have Defender because the class was originally designed to be able to shift to a defensive role on the fly. A DRK/BLM or whatever gimp combo you can come up with, was not and does therefore not have a defensive ability.

                      The game should be more about maximizing the potential of the actions of your character by simply playing damn well rather than constantly min/maxing your stats for every second of the encounter. Combat in FFXI is disappointingly lacking in interaction with every ability having long cooldowns and TP being used almost exclusively to pump out as much damage as possible. Only mages have some options, really, but they are even more plagued by the need to gear swap because they need to carry entire sets for individual spells.

                      The way I see it, gear swapping does bring one positive thing, which was already mentioned by Ziero; the need to pursue more different pieces of gear. However, even with no in-combat gear swaps, sidegrades and specialized pieces can very well have their place in the game. You simply bring the right gear for the right encounter rather than the right gear for the right moment within an encounter. This cuts a lot of inventory management and greatly streamlines the game.

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                      • Re: The *ahem* OFFICIAL "FINAL FANTASY XIV Online" Thread of Ultimate Anticipation!

                        Originally posted by Kailea View Post
                        its that way with alot... if not almost all games, a job class has their weapon they use. and by the deves talking about the "importance of the weapons" I can bet its going to be similar
                        True it used in almost every game and I really think that is limiting customization. Which Because of FF one character can do everything with a job switch I was hoping for more benefits in weapon and armor depending on how you played. I also too the weapon imprtance as in used unlock or use certian abilities of a class. For instance a rod or a wand to cast higher level spells, or a shield to activate rampart or cover. It might just because of how elder scrolls is that I want it like this.

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                        • Re: The *ahem* OFFICIAL "FINAL FANTASY XIV Online" Thread of Ultimate Anticipation!

                          Originally posted by Sekighara View Post
                          True it used in almost every game and I really think that is limiting customization. Which Because of FF one character can do everything with a job switch I was hoping for more benefits in weapon and armor depending on how you played. I also too the weapon imprtance as in used unlock or use certian abilities of a class. For instance a rod or a wand to cast higher level spells, or a shield to activate rampart or cover. It might just because of how elder scrolls is that I want it like this.
                          If they did make the FFXIV leveling system like Elder Scrolls... That would be great, but I doubt they'd take a leveling system like that. There are way to many weapons that you will need to level up to keep a well rounded character. Even the armor thing will be hard as you NEED to be HIT to level up your armor in elder scrolls.

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                          • Re: The *ahem* OFFICIAL "FINAL FANTASY XIV Online" Thread of Ultimate Anticipation!

                            The hitch is that FFXIV needs to retain, at least in some form or another, the ability to do everything on one character. That's on of the biggest things that made FFXI so unique, you could be any and every job. They some how need to carry over the "anything at any time" aspects of FFXI's job system into FFXIV's new "no Exp" style system. Maybe they could do something like a sphere grid system where you can branch out all over however you wish, or a tree style growth system where you can save and change between multiple different paths you've taken. But either way, FFXIV needs to maintain the flexible job system that made FFXI one of a kind.
                            "I have a forebrain, my ability to abstract thoughts allow for all kinds of things" - Red Mage 8-Bit theater

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                            • Re: The *ahem* OFFICIAL "FINAL FANTASY XIV Online" Thread of Ultimate Anticipation!

                              I'm going RDM again or whatever job is closest to it, unless they add SeeD. In which case I'd have two #1 jobs.
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                              • Re: The *ahem* OFFICIAL "FINAL FANTASY XIV Online" Thread of Ultimate Anticipation!

                                Originally posted by Ziero View Post
                                And what about all the examples of clear and present gear progression? Elemental Staves are a terrible blight on this game because they're so good so early with no way to beat them, but every other job has clear and visible gear progression as they level. Yes there are a few key pieces which can last you 20, 30, 70 levels, but there's still plenty of things you can replace as you go.
                                And those are fine. I know there are plenty of examples just like you listed of gear being replaced frequently. I just think that the fact that there are pieces of gear that do last that long without any replacement is a horrible game design decision in the first place, and something I hope they eliminate in FFXIV. I'm certainly not calling FFXI a lost cause because of things like the HQ Staves, nor saying we should all abandon ship.

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