E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

[Tickmeoff]

Re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

no real argument so you post that? alright fine, was not really wanting to start an argument anyway, I just like facts to be strait, and what I have stated about how those game fall in to their categories is indeed fact.


there is nothing "massive" about being in a lobby and forming parties to explore areas, from mission counters/points.

He doesn't really need to argue with such a failure of a post. "Massive" in MMORPG refers to the amount of people playing the game, not what you do within the game. Last I checked, FFXI has about 500k registered accounts. Guild Wars has over 5 million. Even if 80% of those accounts aren't actively played it would still be more than FFXI.

Either way, sitting in a town in Guild Wars looking for a group isn't any different from sitting in Jeuno or Whitegate seeking party. There's nothing "massive" about grinding with 5 other people in either game.

"Massive" events died with EverQuest. If you dared to wake up The Sleeper he'd wipe the hell out of your puny 100 man raid and proceed to walk to every other zone in the world and kill every single player. It wasn't until recently that he was killed on a single server by a raid of 300+ people.

[Malacite]

Re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

Call it what you want but guild wars was still a piece of shit.


Now then... what were we talking about b4 the de-rail?

[WishMaster3K]

Re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

Kerafyrm was a gigantic piece of shit. Props to the tanks.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

Anyway, if the people wanted to defend what are clearly P2P games as "MMOs," that's their losing argument. One type you host, the other type you can't. One kind restricts your parties to a limited number in an otherwise empty zone, the other can have hundreds of people at once. One is not worth paying for because there's never any content updates except for expansions and the other sees content updates every two or three months. One has a persistent world that continues even when you aren't playing, the other runs of your system's internal clock. These are the differences.

But hey, if playing PSU and Guild Wars makes you feel included in MMOs, good for you.

Getting back to FFXIV, if we could, I would like to see SE challenge themselves by adding faction and letting players be something other than a goodie-goodie. Just because there are good and evil or law/neutral/chaotic or any mixture of alignments doesn't exactly mean an MMO also has to include major PvP elements to reflect it. EQ and its subsequent versions didn't have PvP and they had such alignments.

Maybe the nations and the races of Eorzea don't have a stable alliance yet, maybe they have to learn to trust each other. Or maybe they hate each other's guts and just tolerate each other to get the job done.

I did like city raids. They were senseless and sometimes cruel, but at least guards dropped loot.

[Takelli]

Re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

Getting back to FFXIV, if we could, I would like to see SE challenge themselves by adding faction and letting players be something other than a goodie-goodie. Just because there are good and evil or law/neutral/chaotic or any mixture of alignments doesn't exactly mean an MMO also has to include major PvP elements to reflect it. EQ and its subsequent versions didn't have PvP and they had such alignments.

Maybe the nations and the races of Eorzea don't have a stable alliance yet, maybe they have to learn to trust each other. Or maybe they hate each other's guts and just tolerate each other to get the job done.

I did like city raids. They were senseless and sometimes cruel, but at least guards dropped loot.

I think the faction thing with FFXI was the Nations, just the way they had wanted it, probably didn't work out (Like the PvP that was Nation Vs Nation). If they had "true" faction though, then there might be other issues, but it would be so nice to see.


I would like to see some form of PvP in FFXIV, better than what FFXI had, but not have the game formed around it like what GW (Please don't start up another one page thing about MMOs. >.< ) has done. But being able to do PvP during down time, or not wanting to Farm/Grind/Quest/whatever, is a nice option to have, but it is not needed. (Although from what I have read, I think there might be PvP, and the way that some people think the "jobs" being set up might make for some interesting pvp)

[jenova_9]

Re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

player killing and WoW-like PVP would ruin final fantasy.

people play these games to be cooperative and stuff. not being hunted by malicious and terrible people.

give a person friendly fire and you get the disasters seen in games like Left 4 Dead.



even FFXI's conquest system was pushing it. any further and the community would crack.

[Takelli]

Re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

player killing and WoW-like PVP would ruin final fantasy.

people play these games to be cooperative and stuff. not being hunted by malicious and terrible people.

give a person friendly fire and you get the disasters seen in games like Left 4 Dead.



even FFXI's conquest system was pushing it. any further and the community would crack.

Well, I wouldn't suggest there to be WoW, or Pking PvP system. But a system like arenas. For people that want to pvp as something extra to do, but no pvp is allowed in any other zone, or outside of the arenas. Just a friendly PvP contest, thats it. No fighting over control of anything, no fighting over anything, just a 6 on 6 pvp type thing, just to test skills, and stuff like that.

I'm sure there are others that want to partake in PvP. I like the Ballista idea, but no one partakes. I would if others partake. I don't think there is anything wrong with PvP, as long as the game doesnt revolve around it. I like FFXI play, but I would also like to do other stuff than chat, farm/grind/missions, which gets repetitve after a bit, and I think that everyone will agree with that.

I liked the conquest system. It gave a strategic play to FFXI. If you needed something from some where you gotta work for it, you can't just go to the store, and buy it there, unless the nation owns that area. Although it is unfair on certain servers, but thats life.

[Ziero]

Re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

Multiquote walls of text incoming...I really should try to keep up better.

That said, FFXI was a culture shock for me coming from EQ but I don't regret it in the slightest. I love S-E's take on a fantasy universe but with their own refinements. There are so many classical fantasy MMOs out there currently that are so stale for me personally that I'm really pleased to be able to look forward once again to a new MMO release. I'd all but given up hope of anything decent releasing that would be fresh and not saturated with PvP.

That's one of the things I really like about FFXI, it has a "classical fantasy" feel without actually being classical fantasy. It's a truly unique and individualized world in every way, from it's history to it's races. I never could get into games featuring magical elves, miner dwarves, hobits and generic orcs.

actually I like it when my "character" is silent in the cutscenes, it really makes it feel like I'm the one they are talking to, not some scripted doll that just so happens to say something I didn't choose to say.

I personally hated the "Chrono Syndrome" my character suffers from during CS, I know they're talking to me...but if my character were really there they wouldn't get so much time to explain their evil deeds before having a giant axe lobbed at their heads. The worst so far was the CS's leading up to the Battle of Jeuno fight in WotG. When that surprise guest showed up my character would have had no problem screwing up the entire timeline. And when he sat watching the meeting in Jeuno, furniture would have been smashed when they reached their decisions. My "character" has a fairly short temper when it comes to certain things

same for stuff like crab meat and stuff. if you killed a crab, the crab meat is always there. it's not like we disintegrated the mob after defeating it. some drops should be more practical in drop rates.

I dunno, I've seen some mobs just *explode* after a massive nuke or a strong WS. It wouldn't surprise me if that mob I just hit with a fully buffed Steel Cyclone didn't burst into a billion pieces.

Some changes that I'd love to see however:A revamped medicine/food/drink system. The potions and ethers were a joke. Especially at there price. Even the status removal items didn't do justice for what they were worth. OP guards should do more, like aid you when in need. Are slaughter you if they feel encroached upon. A bounty system would be great within the nations, or let's say a person from Bastok does a lot to aid there country in conquest. It should make Windurst want to put a bounty on this persons head. With more bounty on you, you get more quests and also others will get more gil for your death. It would be a good PvP concept.Also, more emphasize on the nations and unity would be excellent. Someone shouldn't switch nations just because X has control of this OP this week. Give us pride, give us untiy, give us an all out War mode without the Ballista dicking around.The fame system was broken. Money should never buy fame. A cap should of been put on the bat wings and cornettes.The AH was great, but selling to the NPC was gimp. RMTs would have never excelled if there was a higher NPC unit value for items.

A few problems with these issues are 1) Meds are cheaper then ever nowadays. There's no excuse not to have a hi-pot tank, antidotes and echo drops, along with sn/in items. And spending that 300ish gil to stop the poison from killing me with 1 hp left is totally worth it. 2) The nations are not at war with each other, in fact they're currently in the state of a steady truce, where instead of direct bloody battle with each other they let sports like Ballista or systems like Conquest determine who has the most standing. If opposing nation OP guards started slaying people from other nations, it'd be the end of the of the Age of Adventurers and start a whole new war within the region, something people are just getting over. And as nameless Adventurers, our loyalties lie within our own perspectives and nothing else, so you can be as proud of your nation as possible or you could switch countries at a whim. 3) You got famous in the nation for constantly helping a citizen in need. It doesn't matter how you did it, you provided him with what he asked for and he responded by spreading your name through the streets. And finally 4) the reason so many NPC resale prices are so low is because RMT would abuse them. They'd find things that sell for cheap on the AH and sell them to NPCs for more money. Or would farm things that NPC'd for a high price and skip the wait times of selling on AH. Many of the RMT's biggest profits came from mass selling to NPCs as they do nothing more then blindly print money.

the hume city better not be some stony settlement in the middle of some rocky region again. the Flintstones we are not.
Bastok is really the galka hometown. Jeuno is really the humes town, but we technically own the galka town too. :p
why do elvaans and tarus get all the nice grassy vistas...

Actually, Bastok is the Hume's homeland. The first historically recorded signs of Humes were found in the Dangruf Wadi, not too far from Bastok. All Hume life, including Jeuno and even Aht Urgan, can be traced back to the Dangruf Wadi. Galka on the other hand come from the Altepa areas, as they were the ones who created the Quicksand Caves. The city of Bastok was created by both Humes and Galka working together, because at one time they saw each other as equals. While Jeuno was founded by Humes, those humes migrated there from Bastok originally.

Its impoosbile for casual players, but not nearly impossible for hard core endgame addicts.

No it's not. I'm as casual as they come, in a LS that can barely scrounge up more then 10-12 people for any event we do. Yet I can do the ENM weekly for the Hagun with absolutely minimal effort. Just one hour a week with people you trust and you'll get it in no time. That's how everyone in my LS who can use one has one, and those who will be able to use it soon will get one.

Either way, sitting in a town in Guild Wars looking for a group isn't any different from sitting in Jeuno or Whitegate seeking party. There's nothing "massive" about grinding with 5 other people in either game.

At any time in FFXI I can get up and explore the world. Travel to any zone, come across any mob, meet anyone at any corner of the globe. In GW, I'm stuck in cities till I get a group, in which case I then go to a closed version of a fairly linear dungeon and just farm the same things over and over again. That's the biggest difference, in GW and PSU, the worlds were 90% instanced, the zones were only there when you were there to do the mission. Otherwise they were closed off to everyone. In FFXI and WoW, the worlds are persistent, they're always there, always alive, with or without your presence.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

Personally I think Arenas and PvP in general in a predominantly PvE game is a terrible idea. Reason being, once jobs start competing against each other in PvP you start to get a ridiculous amount of whining about class balance and subsequent demands for buffs/nerfs. In the event the developers listen to all the QQ'ing you end up with an abortion of a game like WoW where every single aspect of the game is balanced and homogenized to the point the soul of the game withers away and you're left playing something that feels like it's had to go through a panel of accountants for approval.

[Feba]

Re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

There, that wasn't so hard now, was it?

But you over simplify things. Under your example, all a company would need to do to classify MMO status is host game servers instead of hosting them on clients-- which I am pretty sure most games on XBL/PSN/NWC do to some extent or another. Furthermore, what about games that are clearly MMOs (L2, WoW), but are run on private servers? It's still a user hosting the game, and not some central company. You could argue that it's not a user hosted game because it isn't being run in the same piece of software as the host, but I would imagine many PC games that allow users to host games simply launch the server program in the background. You could argue that because it's still centralized, it doesn't matter, but what if the software were modified in such a way so that people who leave the main cities are transferred to their own servers? The game is still fundamentally the same, just without other people wandering around. And plenty of private servers do offer updates, changes, modifications, events. All of the things you use to define MMOs.

For that matter, Animal Crossing has DLC. You can talk and visit with other players online. It is a persistent world which goes on, even while you do not play. Do you consider Animal Crossing an MMO, BBQ?

Your argument about 'people in an area' is also misguided. What about BCNMs and areas in FFXI that only allow a certain number of people to use them at a time? For that matter, what about Besieged? For quite a while, the area was so crowded that it was impossible to get in at times, until SE imposed an area limit on player count. Now sure, you can say "but feba, that's 700, not 7!", but where do you draw the line? In EVE, there are places where thousands of players might be involved in a fight. The server literally has to adjust where the hardware is used to allow for fights like these. Because those numbers are needed for EVE, are those the baselines we should use for other MMOs? What about we lower the number significantly-- to the best of my knowledge, nothing in FFXI needs more than 64 players. Dynamis zones are so limited, at least. Does that mean that those parts of FFXI are not MMOs? If FFXI were to put an area limit of 100 players, would it still be an MMO? 75? 50? 25? 18?

Even if only eighteen adventurers could enter an area at a time, as annoying as it would be, it would not change FFXI's fundamental nature of being an MMO.

[Malacite]

Re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

I still think they can have an arena-style PvP for 1 vs 1 and even alliances against each other. Just keep it to an officially sanctioned area(s) and for the love of god no PK.

Sanctioned PvP is just fine, it's being able to just PK at will that ruins people's fun.

[Takelli]

Re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

I still think they can have an arena-style PvP for 1 vs 1 and even alliances against each other. Just keep it to an officially sanctioned area(s) and for the love of god no PK.

Sanctioned PvP is just fine, it's being able to just PK at will that ruins people's fun.

Yea thats is the type of PvP that I was saying I hoped they have. Pking sucks, but its up to them if they put it in or not. But if they do, you can PK RMTs all you want.

[DakAttack]

Re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

I still think they can have an arena-style PvP for 1 vs 1 and even alliances against each other. Just keep it to an officially sanctioned area(s) and for the love of god no PK.

Sanctioned PvP is just fine, it's being able to just PK at will that ruins people's fun.

I hope they're looking at World of Arenacraft when considering PvP in FFXIV. L4D is also worth a mention, seeing as how they changed the entire game to make things more 'fair' during Versus, when other, more simpler, changes could have been made.

[Kailea]

Re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

Personally I think Arenas and PvP in general in a predominantly PvE game is a terrible idea. Reason being, once jobs start competing against each other in PvP you start to get a ridiculous amount of whining about class balance and subsequent demands for buffs/nerfs. In the event the developers listen to all the QQ'ing you end up with an abortion of a game like WoW where every single aspect of the game is balanced and homogenized to the point the soul of the game withers away and you're left playing something that feels like it's had to go through a panel of accountants for approval.

that can be fixed by allowing spells to have double meanings in PvP and PvE

perfect example a Paladin in WoW can now cast Exorcism on any mob, but not player characters, to keep the balance in both PvE and PvP

[Feba]

Re: E3 2009: FINAL FANTASY XIV Online Coming in 2010

I always liked how EVE handled PVP. Because there's no sharding, they don't have the luxury of "PVP servers". Each area has it's own safety rating, from 1.0 (most safe, major hubs and cities) to 0.0 (outlands, border areas, unregulated conflict and conquest.)

If you attack someone in 1.0, CONCORD (the intergalactic space police, basically) will warp to your location and blow you out of the sky. 0.0, you're on your own. If you work up a criminal rating, you'll find it hard to survive in safer space. Even 1.0 isn't totally safe-- it's possible to be killed there before the police can respond, but for the most part it's pretty safe, and not worth the risk to kill someone in 1.0, especially noobs. People that fly fancy ships or carry valuable cargo are at higher risk. It's a really great way to handle it, keeps PVP from being annoying if you don't want to do it, while keeping a bit of risk out there when you should be experienced enough to handle it.