I need some help with WHM party mechanics

[Mog]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

First: use Flash. Tanks actually love it when you do so. Mob not hitting anybody means people can put up shadows, and generally would allow you to breathe and assess the situation. The only time to not Flash a mob is if the Paladin had just Flashed it already, in which case you should wait for their Flash to wear, and then use Flash yourself.

Whoa whoa whoa, I just had to come into this thread to comment on this. Don't use flash on whm. I'm sorry, but the only reason you should ever use this is when you have a ninja tank who's struggling putting shadows up and there's nobody else to voke off him or stun for him. For all other situations, you shouldn't need it and it generates a shitton of unnecessary hate.

[Aksannyi]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Macro books ... psh. Hell with the FFXI macro system, it is utter shit for all I need to do in a regular day.

[Malacite]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Whoa whoa whoa, I just had to come into this thread to comment on this. Don't use flash on whm. I'm sorry, but the only reason you should ever use this is when you have a ninja tank who's struggling putting shadows up and there's nobody else to voke off him or stun for him. For all other situations, you shouldn't need it and it generates a shitton of unnecessary hate.

This is pure BS. One Flash is not going to get you killed and can potentially save you a lot of MP from not having to cure. Besides with the right gear ( Crow) you can spam Flash/Cure IV with little care. At least I managed to anyway

---------- Post added at 10:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 AM ----------

I've done the CoP Sacrinarium with two Dyna shells both of which wiped to the first skeleton we came accross even though we had a full fucking alliance.

That's actually not entirely unreasonable. More ppl within blood saber range = very, very bad.

[Maeru]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

I have full crow that I macro in for Cures atm,

I rarely pull hate if I have a good tank. Havent experimented much with flash though so I can't comment on that. Might also have to do with the fact that I rarely actually cure to begin with, at least not during a fight

[Aksannyi]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

At endgame my uses for Flash were limited, basically because I'd rather let the PLDs keep hate and with two PLDs (as we'd usually have) they're better trading Flashes. I'd use it on MNK mobs in Dynamis after Hundred Fists so whoever's got hate can survive longer. That's about it. Also, I'm so busy most of the time Flash is the last thing from my mind.

It depends on the party, as well, if the MP just isn't flowing, Flash might be some MP a WHM isn't willing to waste. Crow is excellent to macro for Flash, for many levels. For your cures? Not so much. At 55 it's fine - especially for Cure IV, since it's a hateful little bitch - but try to throw on some MND for your cures. With Cure III's and the occasional Cure IV you really shouldn't pull hate enough to warrant wearing full enmity down gear. As you level, too, plenty of that gear will have enmity down stats, as well. I really never pulled hate on WHM that much, even with Cure IV. I pull hate more on SCH leveling because I forget that I can't just Curaga II in the middle of a fight on a 67 (or lower, if synced) job the way I can on WHM.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Whoa whoa whoa, I just had to come into this thread to comment on this. Don't use flash on whm. I'm sorry, but the only reason you should ever use this is when you have a ninja tank who's struggling putting shadows up and there's nobody else to voke off him or stun for him. For all other situations, you shouldn't need it and it generates a shitton of unnecessary hate.

Um . . . dude? Not my idea:

Paladins will love you if you Flash as often as you can. The only time you shouldn't Flash with a PLD tank is if the PLD used Flash himself less than 13 seconds ago.

Take it up with him.

[Maeru]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

I was under the impression that MND did very little for cures outside of Cure V, is this incorrect?

[Mog]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

I guess I'm talking from an endgame perspective. I suppose it wouldn't really matter much for short fights with -enmity. For longer certain NM fights, you'd want to use it sparingly, if at all. (At least from my experience)

I was under the impression that MND did very little for cures outside of Cure V, is this incorrect?

It affects all cure spells, but it goes into the formula for Cure V.

[Aksannyi]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Furen's FFXI Cure Calculator

That will show you how MND actually affects your spells. It's true that MND does less for lesser cures but it still has an effect. You definitely want Cure Potency as well.

Have to agree with Mog here. It depends on the fight with Flash. In exp parties, yeah, use it. Dynamis, Einherjar, and Limbus are places Flash can be useful for WHM as well. But on things like HNMs, definitely not.

[Armando]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Whoa whoa whoa, I just had to come into this thread to comment on this. Don't use flash on whm.

Die.

Flash generates less hate and costs less MP than curing 3 attack rounds' worth of damage in EXP. The only possible exception to that rule is Cure V. Cure won't help you avoid a Sickle Slash or Pecking Flurry, either.

It depends on the party, as well, if the MP just isn't flowing, Flash might be some MP a WHM isn't willing to waste.

On the contrary, if your tank is a PLD and the MP isn't flowing, that's when you need Flash the most. As stated above, Flash saves MP if the mob is attacking someone that actually takes hits (e.g. not a blink tank.)

WHMs that make no effort to Flash in EXP irk me. I can understand not Flashing every time the timer is up if you're in the middle of something else, or you don't want to interrupt a /heal session, or the tank Flashed recently. But not Flashing at all irritates me.

The main exception is of course Greater Lolibri, but mobs that cast magic back at you tend to be exceptions to a lot of rules.

[Malacite]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

idk how many times I've tried to recast shadows but couldn't because the mob was swinging too fast and the idiot WHM wouldn't take notice of this and flash.

I'm with Armando on this matter.

[Aksannyi]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

I don't know, I'm not casting Flash on Tiamat or Khimaira, unless I'm claiming it. XD There are times when I'll toss one out during the course of an HNM fight but I do not throw it out there every time it's up. I want to keep my hate down over the course of a long fight like that.

There are certainly times and places to use Flash and I'd advocate using it often in many of those places, but when it comes to supporting two PLDs tanking an NM, I'll leave that spell to them.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

I've not had any problem main healing as a WHM/SCH in exp parties as the only support class. WHM/SCH does have the following:

<snip>

The original post was about the situation around Lv.55, no? Obviously things change much at Lv.75. (No Sublimation from /SCH before Lv.70, RDM/WHM has the stronger Bar-element spells for most levels, and Subtle Blow probably doesn't matter all that much in exp/merit settings.)

Honestly the PLD + 5DD + WHM group wroks very well if the DDs go /DNC. I've been able to put a group together like this and while the exp was slower than having a BRD or COR in the party we were making over 15k/hour which is not bad for something considered far from optimal.

Hey, /DNC means backup healer, though probably better to just get a DNC (or PUP). And, PLD + 5DD + WHM = 7 people.

I am curious what PLD + DDx4 + WHM in Caedarva Mire mixing Spongilla Fly and Heraldic Imp with DD/DNC's would be like, though. (Not that I'd want to be in that party.)

I love the WHM+RDM backline. It's extremely versitile and I've rarely seen any downtime at all. Actually once the WHM's Solace is fully charged the RDM will rarely have to do anything at all and is freed up to do things such as nuking and meleeing (I know a lot of RDMs who LOVE having WHMs in a party for that very reason ).

Er, at Lv.55 on Lesser Colibri with RDM+WHM, RDM should be enfeebling plenty (Dia II, Slow, Paralyze, and Blind perfectly fine for those birds), and casting Refresh. May offload a Haste or two from the WHM if no one other than RDM and WHM need Refresh. Then, there's that backup curing thing, and holding down the fort when the WHM needs a few ticks of hMP.

Plenty to do for a backline RDM at that level in most RDM+WHM parties, and stays that way for many levels.

Probably the first camp at which RDM+WHM may mean a RDM not having enough to do would be the Bhaflau Thickets' Colibri (Lv.71-73; used by Lv.61-65 parties). Even then, I'd rather play puller on RDM/NIN rather than to melee the birds.


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Healer used to be important enough to be consider an important category on its own, but now it's downgraded to just one of many functions performed by "support class".

It's a bit sad.

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Edit:

Yes, use Flash in exp parties. If it pulls the critter off of the tank after the second Provoke, either the tank was in trouble, or the tank is the trouble.

Don't use flash when fighting high level NMs in party/alliance unless you are the PLD. It won't last long and the monsters as likely as not will hit its target anyway--which may just be that WHM who used Flash.