I need some help with WHM party mechanics

[Maeru]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Thank you guys so much! This has really solidified my decision to continue with WHM to 75 and possibly to make it my main.

Although this is still a ways off, what event shells should I be looking for to gear my white mage effectively? I'm currently only active in Dynamis and occasionally Einherjar, and I don't have much of an idea where to go next. I'm almost done with CoP and RoZ so I'll have sky and sea access soon if that helps any.

Basically, are there any OMGWTFAMAZING pieces I should be working towards? What's a good setup to get started at 75 on WHM and what are some longterm goals I should have?

[Aksannyi]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Really stick with a Noble's and Blessed and you'll be good for much of your WHM career. Salvage gear is not great for WHM, and Dynamis gear is wonderful but you're already doing that so you shouldn't have much difficulty getting it, with the exception of Cleric's Belt which is a bitch and hardly ever drops. (Be patient, you'll get it eventually.) AF2 Body, Legs, Hands and Feet are all useful. If you'd like, I could make a huge list of all of my sets for you so you can see what to work towards, most of my stuff is HQ but it should give you an idea of what to work on.

If you're going to do Limbus, I recommend HQing the AF1 hat and possibly hands or body. There was no competition for WHM upgrade items in my linkshell so I got 5/5 HQ AF1, but that's not necessary at all. Also, get a Loquacious earring. The fast cast isn't especially amazing, but it has 30 MP which is a significant chunk in one slot. From Einherjar, work toward getting a Morgana's Choker, it's 15k ampoules which you'll be able to get just by going into Einherjar. You can also work toward Aslan Cape, which has 5 MND and is also 15k ampoules. Choker is more important, though.

As far as abjurations go, you could work on some Zenith, but it's not necessary. I never touched Zenith on WHM, not even for a max MP set since I never bothered with one. I see a lot of WHMs wearing green but they're doing it wrong. If you want to work on a Medicine Ring latent set, though, you can't really beat using Zenith for that purpose. I wouldn't really bust ass over getting them though, so you can skip sky entirely if you want to.

When you get sea, you can work on a Korin obi, which is exceptionally useful on Lightday/Light Weather. I love what my cures look like in Temenos. An Anrin obi would also be great for your dark magic, so when you do pop off Aspirs in Dynamis, they'll get a bit of an extra punch.

Get a templar mace when you're able to equip it, and a shield with MND on it. It doesn't do much, but every little bit adds up. If you're going to plan to be a career WHM, strongly consider getting Tamas ring instead of Rajas when you finish CoP. I never once regretted my Tamas, even when everyone told me Rajas would be more useful to me. (ORLY, I have 4 mage jobs at 75 and 0 melee jobs lol)

I think that about covers it. Let me know if you have any further questions though, WHM was my favorite job and I busted my ass to make my WHM one of the best on my server, and I'm more than happy to answer questions about it from people who seem eager to enjoy it as much as I did.

[Armando]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Paladins will love you if you Flash as often as you can. The only time you shouldn't Flash with a PLD tank is if the PLD used Flash himself less than 13 seconds ago.

[Maeru]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

I'd love to see your gearsets when you get a chance ^-^ no rush though, I'm away from home for the next few days so I don't have access to ffxi

Just a general question / paranoid fear: Is making my main WHM with BRD leveled even feasible?

I've gotten the impression from other threads and my general experience in FFXI that there's a BRD4LIFE mentality given the fact that there arent a huge number of 75 BRDs and they are useful in pretty much every aspect of endgame events. I have a feeling if I put 75 BRD on my application that I'm going to come on BRD for the rest of my life XD

I love Bard a ton, but I also love WHM.... Is WHM an "in demand" job enough to get me off of BRD every once and a while? No matter what my main is, I dont want to play 1 job 100% of the time.

THanks for all your help

[Aylmer]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

I honestly used SMN sub as previously mentioned and Sigil/Sanction with the Refresh option. You get a bit more MP than /BLM plus you get a MND and INT boost somewhat. I just recently got past 60 on WHM and just used my MP where I saw it was needed. I kept my DDs Regened and Tank Regened, Cured, and cast Haste. I always make my Tank, if PLD, use cures to help keep hate and help with MP conservation. Your the healer and the party is nothing without you, so hold your ground and instruct them on how your going to handle things. I never had any complaints and the XP kept flowing. Good Luck.

[Aksannyi]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Okay, here it goes, I lifted these off of my Spellcast. Some of the sets may seem interesting but my Spellcast was set up to cast in some sets and switch at midcast, or to recognize certain conditions. There is a clause for my Medicine Ring if I'm in yellow HP, and also a clause for Anrin and Korin Obis so that when the proper day/weather effect is active, I equip them. Also saves me the trouble of having extra macros for those situations, but Spellcast isn't really a requirement.

I italicized actual gear changes within each set (as differing from idle) so that you can see what's actually swapped.

Idle:
Terra's Staff
Raptor leather strap +1
Hedgehog Bomb
Walahra Turban
Morgana's Choker
Roundel Earring
Loquacious Earring
Aristocrat's Coat
Healer's Mitts +1
Serket Ring
Tamas Ring
Errant Cape
Cleric's Belt
Blessed Trousers
Herald's Gaiters (Fuck running slow!)

Curing Set: (Used for Cure, Curaga, Cure II, Cure III, Cure V)
Templar Mace
Numinous Shield +1
Hedgehog Bomb
Healer's Cap +1
Morgana's Choker
Roundel Earring
Loquacious Earring (my spellcast swaps me into Geist Earring at midcast)
Aristocrat's Coat
Healer's Mitts +1 (Blessed Mitts are fine here, I like white boxes. If I'd gotten Blessed +1 they'd go here, as both Healer's Mitts +1 and Blessed Mitts have 7 MND.)
Aqua Ring
Tamas Ring
Aslan Cape
Cleric's Belt
Blessed Trousers
Cure Clogs (my spellcast swaps me into Cleric's Duckbills +1 at midcast)

Enmity Curing Set: (Used for Cure IV, Curaga II, Curaga III, Curaga IV, small hit in Cure Potency in favor of not pulling hate)
Templar Mace
Numinous Shield +1
Hedgehog Bomb
Nashira Turban
Morgana's Choker
Roundel Earring
Loquacious Earring
Aristocrat's Coat
Healer's Mitts +1
Aqua Ring
Tamas Ring
Errant Cape
Penitent's Rope
Blessed Trousers
Cure Clogs

Dark Magic Set:
Pluto's Staff
Raptor Leather Strap +1
Hedgehog Bomb
Nashira Turban
Dark Torque
Abyssal Earring (My reward choice from Divine Might, as I had planned to level DRK when I initially got it.)
Loquacious Earring
Nashira Manteel
Nashira Gages
Serket Ring
Tamas Ring
Merciful Cape
Cleric's Belt
Blessed Trousers
Blessed Pumps
===== Put haste in slots where you can't get Dark Magic Skill +, for recast purposes.

Barspell Set:
Terra's Staff
Raptor leather strap +1
Hedgehog Bomb
Walahra Turban
Morgana's Choker
Roundel Earring
Loquacious Earring
Blessed Briault
Healer's Mitts +1
Serket Ring
Tamas Ring
Errant Cape
Cleric's Belt
Cleric's Pantaloons +1
Cleric's Duckbills +1

Enfeebling (MND) Set:
Appropriate Elemental Staff
Raptor leather strap +1
Hedgehog Bomb
Healer's Cap +1
Enfeebling torque
Magnetic Earring
Loquacious Earring
Healer's Briault +1
Cleric's Mitts
Aqua Ring
Tamas Ring
Aslan Cape
Cleric's Belt
Nashira Seraweels
Cleric's Duckbills +1

Enfeebling (INT) Set: (It was rare that I'd need this, but sometimes ES Sleep or Bind was useful)
Appropriate Elemental Staff
Bugard strap +1
Hedgehog Bomb
Walahra Turban
Enfeebling torque
Magnetic Earring
Loquacious Earring
Healer's Briault +1
Cleric's Mitts
Snow Ring
Tamas Ring
Gleeman's Cape
Penitent's Rope
Nashira Seraweels
Healer's Duckbills +1

Stoneskin Set: (Stoneskin is easy to cap on WHM but I felt gimp not swapping at least a bit)
Neptune's Staff
Raptor leather strap +1
Hedgehog Bomb
Healer's Cap +1
Morgana's Choker
Roundel Earring
Loquacious Earring
Aristocrat's Coat
Healer's Mitts +1
Serket Ring
Tamas Ring
Errant Cape
Cleric's Belt
Blessed Trousers
Cleric's Duckbills +1

MP Resting Set:
Pluto's Staff
Raptor leather strap +1
Hedgehog Bomb
Healer's Cap +1 (Goliard does not exist.)
Phi Necklace
Magnetic Earring
Antivenom Earring
Healer's Briault +1 (Errant is fine here, obviously)
Healer's Mitts +1 (Have never gotten a hand piece for resting)
Serket Ring
Tamas Ring
Errant Cape (Could swap this, chose not to)
Cleric's Belt
Yigit Seraweels
Healer's Duckbills +1

Banish Set: (Not necessary, but fun.)
Apollo's Staff
Raptor leather strap +1
Hedgehog Bomb
Nashira Turban
Morgana's Choker
Novio Earring
Loquacious Earring
Royal Redingote (Augmented with Macc and MAB)
Cleric's Mitts
Aqua Ring
Tamas Ring
Errant Cape
Cleric's Belt
Healer's Pantaloons +1
Cleric's Duckbills +1

Divine Set: (Just in case of a rare yet pesky chance of resist on Repose)
Apollo's Staff
Raptor leather strap +1
Hedgehog Bomb
Nashira Turban
Morgana's Choker
Magnetic Earring
Loquacious Earring
Aristocrat's Coat
Blessed Mitts
Aqua Ring
Tamas Ring
Errant Cape
Cleric's Belt
Healer's Pantaloons +1
Cleric's Duckbills +1

Regen Set:
Terra's Staff
Raptor leather strap +1
Hedgehog Bomb
Walahra Turban
Morgana's Choker
Magnetic Earring
Loquacious Earring
Cleric's Briault +1
Healer's Mitts +1
Serket Ring
Tamas Ring
Errant Cape
Cleric's Belt
Blessed Trousers
Herald's Gaiters

Haste Set: (Swapped in while casting spells that have long recasts, like Erase and Esuna)
Seveneyes (Has Conserve MP)
Genbu's Shield
Hedgehog Bomb
Walahra Turban
Morgana's Choker
Magnetic Earring
Loquacious Earring
Aristocrat's Coat
Blessed Mitts
Serket Ring
Tamas Ring
Errant Cape
Cleric's Belt
Blessed Trousers
Blessed Pumps

Devotion Set: (Put this on, then would use a "raw" Cure V command, which would cast the spell without changing gear.)
Seveneyes
Patriarch Protector's Shield
Hedgehog Bomb
Walahra Turban
Phi Necklace (Does not have +HP, but it's a neck piece without -HP which is all I swap it for)
Roundel Earring
Loquacious Earring
Custom Vest (lolRSE, Goliard doesn't exist)
Healer's Mitts +1
Aqua Ring (Again, something that doesn't have -HP, I never did get to pop the Bomb Queen before I quit)
Tamas Ring
Gleeman's Cape
Gold Moogle Belt (There are better options, but this is HP +3% so it's not bad)
Yigit Seraweels
Marine F Boots

Part of the reason I swapped to Magnetic so much is the Conserve MP. It doesn't proc a lot but I'll take it when it does. I idle in Roundel because it's a showoff item. My gear is mostly complete for WHM, barring (fucking) Nyzul drops and HQ blessed, also some -1 pieces from Dynamis that I never upgraded because currency was too scarce lol.

Also, to answer your question, yes, WHM is definitely in demand enough even for you to play it over BRD. We have a GHorn bard who gets put on WHM fairly often, along with a Bravura WAR. Of course, we were always low on WHMs. It will depend on the shell, but there are not usually a lot of people who enjoy playing WHM so typically I've found WHM and BRD are probably the most needed jobs, so you should get to play it fairly regularly.

[Satori]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Thank you Aksannyi

I've enjoyed this topic so far after getting to 55 on bst I decided to try a mage job currently I'm on sch but I have learnt alot from this topic. Thats some nice gear you have too I'm only 26 on sch and I carry 3 sets of gear already, Int Mnd and Hmp. I've found it interesting seeing your setup's it gives me alot to look forward to. I bet your gobbiebag had to have a new strap every now and then it's alot of gear to carry lol

[Aksannyi]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Haha, it does indeed. Luckily for me, I have a lot of mage jobs which do share quite a bit of gear.

[Nuriko]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Granted that BRD is one of those jobs that people don't want to do without ... but in endgame context, so is WHM. More, WHM isn't something you tend to level for benefits, but because you want to be a WHM, so I'd expect there to be more BRDs about. Still, always being on ANY job can start to wear on you...

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Just a general question / paranoid fear: Is making my main WHM with BRD leveled even feasible?

It depends on the LS and who in the LS shows up for which events.

Lv.75 RDM, BRD, and PLD here, and I'm on RDM the most with PLD a close second. Constantly wondering when can I ever go as BRD to anything other than merit parties (which I don't need) ...

[Malacite]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

If you like BRD (I sure as hell don't anymore lol) I would definitely merit on BRD and also merit both jobs. If the people in your shell have even a shred of humanity, they'll let you play WHM more often than BRD, but BRD is an easy job to pimp out and even easier to play.

You're also leveling perhaps the two top jobs for getting into mission parties etc so that's good.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Quite late, but some thoughts on the OP:

PLD + DD x4 + WHM party is just problematic; no matter how good the PLD is, over time a PLD likely will require more cures than the PLD and WHM together can provide unless there's a lot down time to recharge MP.

The ideal would be to replace a DD with an MP recharge job which can backup cure, but even a BRD/NIN puller w/out any cure would help a lot. Heck, even some job which can't restore other people's MP but can help off-load curing would help.

Many ToAU camps allow pickup group setup of tank + DD x4 + WHM to work even pre-merit, but in my experiences they never work as well as I'd like.

What I do like is no down time, and plenty of MP in reserve for emergency cure dumping at all times, and that basically means always have a backup healer--preferably one with ability to restore MP to party members. Personally, I would gladly exchange firepower of one DD for the margin of safety a backup healer brings whenever I see a front line looking like tank + DD x4.

This kinda made me go "Wtf? o.o" because it seems ridiculous to turn down an already scarce party invite because it doesnt include a BRD or COR, not to mention the fact that I've arrived at the level where parties become 1 MAGE ONRY TP BURN DA BURDIEZ.

Um... RDM is OK, too; no need to insist on COR or BRD. RDM + WHM is not a bad combination.

Even if none of the three (RDM, COR, or BRD) is available, you're still better off getting some sort of co/backup healer than go at it alone. That's something which DNC, BLU, PUP, SMN/WHM, and even BLM/WHM can do, so quite a few choices. (However, iit's quite hard to get many NA/EU BLUs and BLMs to lend a hand with cures; probably should stick with DNCs and maybe PUPs whenever possible unless it's a JP BLU or BLM.)

My PLD tanks only use mp for flash or even banish, becoming an MP sponge that I have to cure constantly all fight.

I don't understand this one either, but it's quite common to get PLDs who don't cure.

My DD try to flaunt their epeen by using all their JA's at once and pumping out huge damage, becoming the tank for the rest of the fight.
[...]
I love WHM to death and I want to find a way to be self sufficient and effective without being forced to lean on a crutch by waiting for a party with refresh.

Those are the people who should go /THF (Lv.60+) to help tanks out with TA WS. Unfortunately, they are just as likely to SA WS instead and use up half of your MP in 20 seconds. Or, those DDs can go /NIN for Utsusemi, but then they'll whine about how /NIN does nothing for their damage output, even if Berserk+JA+WS kills MP to the point where chain #2 is difficult.

Anyway, the prevailing mentality is that of "Do damage--more the better." Until people get over that, all you can do is to insist on MP restore job and/or a backup healer--which really isn't a bad idea even with good tanks and smart melees up front.

* * *

The idea of a completely self-sufficient WHM exp parties is actually a bit disturbing to me--kind of like the completely self-sufficient RDM/WHM in merit parties.

[Firewind]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Quite late, but some thoughts on the OP:

PLD + DD x4 + WHM party is just problematic; no matter how good the PLD is, over time a PLD likely will require more cures than the PLD and WHM together can provide unless there's a lot down time to recharge MP.

The ideal would be to replace a DD with an MP recharge job which can backup cure, but even a BRD/NIN puller w/out any cure would help a lot. Heck, even some job which can't restore other people's MP but can help off-load curing would help.

Many ToAU camps allow pickup group setup of tank + DD x4 + WHM to work even pre-merit, but in my experiences they never work as well as I'd like.

What I do like is no down time, and plenty of MP in reserve for emergency cure dumping at all times, and that basically means always have a backup healer--preferably one with ability to restore MP to party members. Personally, I would gladly exchange firepower of one DD for the margin of safety a backup healer brings whenever I see a front line looking like tank + DD x4.

I've not had any problem main healing as a WHM/SCH in exp parties as the only support class. WHM/SCH does have the following:

WHM Main:
Noble's Tunic
Sanction
Stoneskin added to all cures strong enough to block about 3 hits when capped out. That is essentially a free Utsusemi: Ichi to ANY party member when capped
Flash
The ability to AoE Subtile Blow so less TP is fed to the mob
The strongest protect spells in the game
The strongest shell spells in the game
The strongest Barspells in the game plus the ability to add MDB to them
The ability to hit the haste cap on gear effortlessly
The best Regen spells in the game (so few WHMs only cast Regen III instead of using all 3 Regen spells for the situation it's depressing)

SCH sub:
Sublimation
Light Arts
Stratagems that halves the MP cost of your next spell
Dark Arts giving you a full strangth aspir
Conserve MP (Not that useful but it's nice)

I wouldn't say that WHM is completely MP self sufficient but i've easily been able to keep refreshless exp parties healed up without dropping below 50%. Honestly the PLD + 5DD + WHM group wroks very well if the DDs go /DNC. I've been able to put a group together like this and while the exp was slower than having a BRD or COR in the party we were making over 15k/hour which is not bad for something considered far from optimal.

Um... RDM is OK, too; no need to insist on COR or BRD. RDM + WHM is not a bad combination.

I love the WHM+RDM backline. It's extremely versitile and I've rarely seen any downtime at all. Actually once the WHM's Solace is fully charged the RDM will rarely have to do anything at all and is freed up to do things such as nuking and meleeing (I know a lot of RDMs who LOVE having WHMs in a party for that very reason ).

[Maeru]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

It's nice to know that I won't necessarily be BRD4LIFE if I'm leveling whm as well. I understand that a lot of people level jobs such as BRD for easy access to gear and endgame events but I assure you that that sort of thought wasn't in my mind at all XD While it's great to feel wanted and get an invite the second I put my flag up, I don't see the point of leveling a job just because it's "easy" or "wanted". I really love support role jobs and basically all mage jobs in general. I eventually would love to have BLM SCH WHM SMN RDM BRD all at 75, because I really love being in the backline. The fact that WHM and BRD will give me relatively easy access to gear and linkshells is just icing on the cake.

And Holy shit......that's a GIGANTIC list of gear Maybe one day I'll be as ubar as you :3

I'm beginning to see how a supporting healer or refresher will really make things easier, but honestly....how often have you seen a RDM + WHM party 54+ (exp or merit). There's a reason I didn't list RDM in that list, and that's because parties usually only want a Curebot, more than one mage in a party is considered overkill or diminishing efficiency. From the way I see things, WHM is 3rd or even 4th on the list of desired healers, which might account for the fact that at almost 56 I've never had a party abvove 50. I got kicked from a party on colibri for a SMN.....srsly? they have cure III but because they have auto refresh and a shitload of mp apparently they're better than me.

/rantoff

I just hope the situation is a little better at 75, because I don't want to level WHM only to be looked at as a subpar class. I've heard that Endgame =/= EXP, I hope that's true -.-

Should I try building my own parties or something? I usually seek for hours before I get a levelsync 43 invite or something like that. And I'm gonna stab the next person who invite me to E. Ronfaure (s)

[Firewind]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

I don't even want to know how many macro books it will take to store all of those lines of macros on XD

To be honest my gear is pretty standard for most WHMs since i'm not in an endgame shell. I've not found an endgame shell that suits me to be honest and most have been a waste of time. I've done the CoP Sacrinarium with two Dyna shells both of which wiped to the first skeleton we came accross even though we had a full fucking alliance. The latter's shellholder also throught it would be funny to MPK me with a slime because I didn't raise him before the only mage in the alliance. He even called me selfish and a gimp WHM because I wasn't willing to stick around to help him get his Swift belt after because i was the only healer in the alliance.

I do enjoy playing helpful jobs. I ultimately find tham much more satifying to play than more automatic jobs where you just hit the WS/Song/Nuke macro every few seconds. My main 3 (that I plan to have at 75) are WHM75, PLD65 and COR58. All are very appealing to anyone putting a party together and I usually don't have a problem finding a party if I list that I have those 3 jobs in the Search Comment. it means that I have to store gear for 3 jobs but I love those jobs so I don't really care.

The SMN was probably picked over you because of Elemental Syphon and Clear Mind V. Those abilities couples with Auto Refresh, Blood Pacts and SMN's already huge MP pool can make them last for ages. I never really understand why WHMs are still so low in the healer order. This is what we have to compete with:

Red Mages - Merit Parties and EXP parties at 48+
Scholars - Merit parties and EXP parties around the time /RDM becomes thier main subjob
Summoners - Mostly for exp parties
Bards - Japanese merit parties
Corsairs - Japanese merit parties
Blue Mages - Japanese merit parties
Black Mages - Japanese exp parties
Dancers - Lv15 and up for exp parties, Lots of DDs sub it as an alternative to /NIN in Japanese merit parties
Power Levellers - Just about any level

Some of them are really not suited to main healing but people will still pick them for a healer. I always find it a bit ridiculous really how WHMs are still rated far below RDMs and SCHs, especially when coupled with a BRD or COR (especially a COR, Healer's Roll) WHMs can easily keep up with a RDM. I mean a RDM can easily run out of MP without a BRD or COR around yet people still think that that can outlive everything.