Some Preliminary Testing of the new spells/abilities

[Karinya]

Re: Some Preliminary Testing of the new spells/abilities

Oh yah 1 thing about Esuna I just remembered that I saw in the BG thread;

Without Misery it won't remove Spider AoE Slow but it will with it.

According to wiki, the same goes for all Eraseable effects.

[Solymir]

Re: Some Preliminary Testing of the new spells/abilities

I like the idea of spending less mp using cura to wake up my party, the problem is it's a self target spell, which means I have to go within AoE range of the mob to wake my people up. That's not a good trade off in most situations.

[Armando]

Re: Some Preliminary Testing of the new spells/abilities

What are the odds of getting two AoEs in a row, when the whole party is asleep and not feeding the mob TP? Not very good if you ask me.

That aside, Kaeko reports that the hate from Cura is divided in tiers according to the HP healed, and besides that, the hate from Cura is independent from the number of people it hits. It could be, in the enmity aspect, the Cure V of the Curaga line.

EDIT: To quote Kaeko in the Enmity Testing thread in BG:

1) It is an AoE but the number of players it hits doesn't change the enmity values (the only move I know that would do this). This means if your Cura hits you or hits 6 people, it won't change the enmity values.

2) The enmity generated is not based on the cure formula.

3) The enmity generated is not based static either. It is TIERED. A basic 0 HP stored Misery (or no Misery active) will result in a 50CE/100VE Cura (~34 HP cured). We tried with 26 damage taken resulting in a 54 HP cure Cura and it gave back 100CE/200VE. We then tried with a 10 damage taken resulting in 44 HP cure Cura and it gave back 50CE/100VE. Again, TIERED system.

If you do the math, a 44 HP Cura can restore a total of 176 HP if it hits 4 targets (say, 1 tank and 3 DDs), for a mere 50 CE and 100 VE, which is quite a trivial amount of hate. Recovering that much HP with a "normal" Cure or Curaga would accrue 201 CE and 1206 VE at Level 40, or 128 CE/768 VE at 75.

I assume that this hate difference only gets wider as Cura's HP recovered goes up, and if you happen to be healing 6 people and not just 4, then the hate difference is even more significant.

EDIT2: Running the numbers again with 54 HP Cura on 4 people.
Total recovery: 216 HP
Enmity with Cura: 100CE/200VE
Enmity with normal Cures at Lv.40: 246CE/1481VE
Enmity with normal Cures at Lv.75: 157CE/942VE

[Aksannyi]

Re: Some Preliminary Testing of the new spells/abilities

I just don't like how slow it is to cast.

[lionx]

Re: Some Preliminary Testing of the new spells/abilities

Thanks for the verification Armando, i pretty much assumed that it was not going to be calculated the same hate-wise for Cura. You just confirmed it

I also think its plenty fast in casting...oh well...

[Aksannyi]

Re: Some Preliminary Testing of the new spells/abilities

Seems to take longer than Curaga, and while it's less MP, if I need to wake people quickly I'm going to rely on Curaga instead of Cura.

[Armando]

Re: Some Preliminary Testing of the new spells/abilities

Wiki says Cura is 5 secs while Curaga is 4.5...but if waking people up ASAP is priority then I can see why you'd spend an extra 30 MP just to not run over there and back.

Something else that's interesting about the update: with Solace triplicating Holy's damage at max power (~1.3k of healing), /BLM suddenly becomes appealing again if you have Refresh available, since MABII will boost Holy's power further by another 24%. I saw a screenshot at BG of a 1k Holy against a Ronfaure rabbit with /BLM, max Solace bonus and +32 MAB in gear. Naturally due to a smaller MND gap the number would be reduced somewhat against an EXP mob, but for a mere 100 MP that is a sick amount of damage, especially if you MB it for an extra 33% damage.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Some Preliminary Testing of the new spells/abilities

I think there's the possibility that my spellcast isn't putting me into full Haste gear for Cura yet, so I might have to look at that and see what's going on. It felt very slow to me, though. And you're right, rarely am I going to be in range to fire off a Cura. I was trying to be in range in Einherjar so I'd get hit with shit that needs to be Esuna'ed, but I was irritating the shit out of my Bard in the process.

/sigh. Needs moar Yagrush.

[Somnar]

Re: Some Preliminary Testing of the new spells/abilities

I don't think the times on FFXIclopedia are correct for a lot of the new spells. I personally tested cast times (with a stopwatch) and was seeing about 3.5 seconds cast time for Cura (with no fast cast or haste gear on).

[Truece]

Re: Some Preliminary Testing of the new spells/abilities

I don't think the times on FFXIclopedia are correct for a lot of the new spells. I personally tested cast times (with a stopwatch) and was seeing about 3.5 seconds cast time for Cura (with no fast cast or haste gear on).

Something tells me your method for capturing spell cast times just might be prone to human error.

I think there's the possibility that my spellcast isn't putting me into full Haste gear for Cura yet, so I might have to look at that and see what's going on. It felt very slow to me, though

Why would you expect your spells to cast faster with your full haste gear? Haste effects recast times, not casting times, unless you also equip all of your 'fast cast' gear in you haste set?

[Aksannyi]

Re: Some Preliminary Testing of the new spells/abilities

Yeah, fast cast/haste is the same set.

[Somnar]

Re: Some Preliminary Testing of the new spells/abilities

Something tells me your method for capturing spell cast times just might be prone to human error.

It probably is, though I did cast several times and look at an average. However, I have seen no information on how Cura cast times on FFXIclopedia were determined. If you look in the revision history for Cura, the "5 second" cast time was added just barely after the servers came up and not in the correct format. I suspect someone was just eyeballing.

I'll take another look tonight but I'm pretty sure about the 3.5 sec cast.

Edit: Tried again, 40 cap (so no Cure merits), no gear, BLM sub. Still getting about 3.5 sec. If you know a better way to determine cast times (getting it from the DAT files hasn't worked for a while now), please let me know.

[Armando]

Re: Some Preliminary Testing of the new spells/abilities

I always assumed people used video recording to get accurate times. This is how Haste testing was generally conducted, and also how Fast Cast testing was done in the old days.

[Armando]

Re: Some Preliminary Testing of the new spells/abilities

I take back what I said about Holy making /BLM appealing. I totally forgot that with /SCH you could get half-MP Holys, and that's even more absurd.

[Karinya]

Re: Some Preliminary Testing of the new spells/abilities

Maybe, maybe not. It takes a while to charge up Solace - when your rate of fire is that limited by other circumstances, a more powerful Holy may be more effective than a cheaper one. It's only 50 MP difference assuming no conserve MP. (Or is it 55? I forget how the half MP stratagems interact with Arts discounts. Either way, it's not a lot, if you assume it takes several minutes to build up your Solace charge for the next one.)

With a lot of other spells, half MP = you can cast twice as many, but that's not really true in this case. Other limiting factors apply.