New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

[Firewind]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

No no.

Accuracy Bonus I and II and Enlight.

Just to piss RDMs off.

Well WHMs (and PLDs to prevent arguements) having an Enlight spell would make more sense lore-wise than RDMs having exclusive access to such a spell. Especially considering that all of the WHM AF quests are to do with battling the undead.

[Sabaron]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

Might I propose an objective rather than subjective comparison based on several easily quantifiable characteristics?

For our purposes we will consider a Naked (no gear at all), Meritless, 75th level Hume WHM/SCH and a Naked Meritless 75th level Hume SCH/RDM as our two participants.

Answer the following questions:

Healing Over Time
On one bar of MP:

What is the total curing potential of the healer?

How much enmity is generated by delivering said cures?

Spike Healing

In a single cast, how much damage can either healer repair?

How much enmity is generated by this spike cure?

If you go into buffing then you are discussing a support role rather than a healing role.

Comparing different buffs (e.g. Haste vs Enthundaga) is difficult at best.

There also was a question of which is the better debuff mitigator. WHM can use Divine Veil once every 10 minutes, while SCH can use Accession once every minute. However, if a party is being debuffed frequently enough to require Accession curing every minute, then SCH couldn't use any other Accession buffs.

The question becomes:

Is it more efficient for SCH to use Accession to buff the party or is it more efficient to use Accession to remove debuffs? I believe that depends on what debuff you need to dispel and how much the -na spell costs.

Anyway, I have to go back to work...

Perhaps you'll consider some additional objective metrics rather than subjective ones for the remainder of the discussion as subjective metrics have obviously failed to produce anything besides conflicting opinions which are not particularly valuable.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

why is 201 dmg migrate so much better then Whm aggro less general healing.

Because 201 to 250 damage mitigated means it will help a tank hold hate better. If someone else takes hate and has SS/Phalanx on them, they'll take less damage and probably have a chance to reapply Utsusemi.

And Devotion ROCKS. Where is the "devotion" love around here?

Yeah, yeah. Its nice. But the game has changed a bit since it was added. If a PLD or other frontline MP user really needs it, we have Aspir Samba and Pianissimo Ballad, too. PLDs have Chivalry. Vermy Cloaks, Signet/Sigi. Auto-Refresh.

These days, unless the people around them suck, there are lots of ways to get MP back now and Devotion is just a merit ability.

[Omniblast]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

level 70+ sch = 1 minute divine seal for sch's to use AOE status removal.
level 70+ whm = 10 minute divine seal for whm to use AEO status removal.

Wait should the comparison be between sch & smn instead?
AoE enspells?
AoE Cures?
AoE Blink?
AoE Stoneskin?

[Malacite]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

Is it more efficient for SCH to use Accession to buff the party or is it more efficient to use Accession to remove debuffs? I believe that depends on what debuff you need to dispel and how much the -na spell costs.

Only time I can think of that really justifies this are Breakga in dynamis and that AoE Bio that flayers do (that crap hurts)

Maybe when Byakko roars. maybe. but as BBQ as said before Accession + na spells are generally a waste of a charge. (Yagrush you can have this =3 lol)

[Yellow Mage]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

level 70+ sch = 1 minute divine seal for sch's to use AOE status removal.

Except they can do far cooler stuff than that with that charge.

[Sabaron]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

level 70+ sch = 1 minute divine seal for sch's to use AOE status removal.
level 70+ whm = 10 minute divine seal for whm to use AEO status removal.

Wait should the comparison be between sch & smn instead?
AoE enspells?
AoE Cures?
AoE Blink?
AoE Stoneskin?

I made the comparison earlier, but no one bit on it except for Ospeff who just said "lolSMN" and then never responded to my request for elaboration instead choosing to complain about Ameroth instead (side-stepping the issue).

[Firewind]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

Is it more efficient for SCH to use Accession to buff the party or is it more efficient to use Accession to remove debuffs? I believe that depends on what debuff you need to dispel and how much the -na spell costs.

Technically it's more efficient for SCH to use the charge on an AoE buff or something since the recast timers on -na spells are short enough for you to spam them.

The reason why we WHMs complain about SCH being able to AoE -na spells is that SCHs can technically do it every minute while WHMs are stuck with a 10 min JA. What makes it more painful if if you are stunned, paralyzed or interupted or otherwise prevented from doing a DS + -na spell while casting, WHMs will lose the Divine Seal effect and will have to wait another 10 mins to be able to do it again while SCHs can technically do it 3 more times in a row before waiting for the next charge.

People can argue all they like about how efficient a use of a strategem that is but the fact is that while it is a fairly useless way of using a strat SCHs still have the capability of casing an AoE -na spell every minute while WHMs are stuck with a 10 minute JA. Sure it's a completely inefficient use of strats but as it stands SCH pretty much has exclusive access to AoE -na spells and AoE Erase while WHMs, the specialist healing class has to either use a JA with a 10 minute recast or spend millions and millions of gil and hours and hours of time spent dungron crawling, NM huting and assault missions to get a club that will probably never see practical use outside of -na spell and Erase macros.

To be honest the only status curing spells I can see being useful with Acession are Paralyna, Stona and Erase and even though I'd probably only use it for Erase. I actually don't think I use DS to AoE anything but those three spells. The rest, particularly Cursna, Blindna and Poisona seem situational at best. That being said as a WHM main I would kill to be able to AoE Poisona every minute just to stop the frontlines from freaking out over a 1HP/tick Poison effect

[LilithAngel]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

That being said as a WHM main I would kill to be able to AoE Poisona every minute just to stop the frontlines from freaking out over a 1HP/tick Poison effect

Hell no, I like my 1HP/tic Poison. It keeps the Sleepgas WHMs seem to refuse to cure away.

[Firewind]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

Remember kids if you are stuck with sleepga on and your WHM is just sitting there in the background cackling it's probably in your best interest to stop bugging the hell out of them to cure your poison

[Celeal]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

I think if the party tactic involves focusing on healing one party member at a time (usually the tank), that is the condition which WHM works well. (but I am not saying that is the only way that WHM operates)

Remember the old days, the traditional party structure usually is: a tank, a Skillchain opener, a Skillchain closer, and the back-line can overlap between Nuker/MB-er, healing, and support. Under that party structure, WHM works well. You see, in the old days, Bulk/AoE status removal wasn't an issue when the party structure used to contain more than one mage with /whm anyway; Instead of extreme melee damage in TP burn, there was a mix of melee + nuking; Instead of DD/NIN, it was DD/WAR or DD/THF and heavily rely on Tank.

As nowadays general party tactic evolved, I think SCH is designed to cover area which the older generation healers are lacking. It is a different tweaking.

[Malacite]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

While messing around in campaign yesterday I noticed something for the 1st time; Erase is broken, and not in the good way.


I had -DEX, -CHR, Bind and Bio 2 on me (placed upon me in that order) and Erase was removing them in the order cast. Now, am I the only one who thinks this is just plain silly? Given that I was down to only 212 HP, I could have cared less about CHR and DEX and would have much preferred the damn thing to remove that Bio spell ASAP.

I don't know if it would be too much work for SE but maybe they could re-code the spell to give priority to more debilitating/life threatening debuffs first?

[L boogie]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

With the release of SCH, i think the MP management on WHM/SCH is phenominal and i couldnt be anymore happier with my WHM. I think certain jobs, in this case RDM, SCH, and WHM, bring different things to the table in the sense it all comes down to "what are we fighting", and "what are we trying to accomplish?"

Personally SCH is truly an incredible job, from their enfeebling capabilities, elemental capabilities, to Stoneskinga, to Blinkga, to Phalanxga, all the way down to Light Arts and Dark Arts and so much more. Defines the phrase [Support role job][Yes, please] lol.

But as a fellow 75WHM, nothing beats those nice spells that a SCH cant do for me like Regen III, Reraise III, Protectra V, Shellra V, the all powerful Devotion and much much more. I believe SCH and WHM, superior on their own playstyles don't wanna overpower one or the other but support each other.

I had a phenominal XP party the other day, me (75WHM/SCH) and a buddy (75SCH/RDM). It was flawless.

[Celeal]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

It is not broken, I think... same rule is apply for Healing Waltz (DNC), which is first-in-first-out... I think the reverse is applied for Dispel too (player dispels mob or mob dispels player), which is last-in-first-out. (but I could be wrong)

I learned the same lesson in campaign too: Since the Healing Waltz (Erase) /recast timer take some time, no matter how non-dangerous the debuff is, take high priority to remove it as soon as possible.

[Solymir]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

Are you ready for some brilliant insight? Are you ready for the answer to almost every question you can ask about FFXI?

Nearly everything is situational. In other words, ask me a specific question and I will give you a specific answer.

We could sit here and nail down every possible situation we might find ourselves in, but that would take far too long.

I personally love both jobs. I thought about listing pros and cons, but decided against it since I have only leveled Sch to 37. Perhaps someone who has done both would be willing to give us their personal experience on the pros and cons of each.

Someone may have already asked, but why was Rdm left off of this Poll?