New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

[Sabaron]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

White Mage has Raise III. White Mage's Cure V is more MP efficient than any other cure in terms of both HP/MP and Enmity. White Mage with SCH sub has 2/tick refresh at the cost of 1hp/tick (net) which when combined with the semi-ubiquitous Noble's Tunic gives essentially the same mp refresh as a RDM (without vermy) or a SCH (with mortarboard).

Therefore, MP refresh is no longer a problem for the WHM.

SCH provides some interesting defensive options in Stoneskinga and Phalanxga both of which are significantly better than SMN's pacts that have the same effect. SCH also gives Enspellga to enhance damage--this mitigates the loss of Haste a bit. [Removed error].

When it comes right down to it, at whatever level you're at, the best healer is the one who has his flag up. It's more about who's interested than who do I pick among "n" players. Support is a low-population role (most people are playing DD), so it's not like you'll be able to pick between seas of prospects.

I feel that in terms of raw healing, nothing beats a WHM, ever, period. [Removed error]. WHM also has Bar spells that (with appropriate gear and/or merits) provide Magic Defense Bonus generically as well as the standard element-specific defense. Add to that Protect V and Shell V off merit, Raise III, Cure V, and Regen III, Flash and that lovely Devotion ability that PLDs drop to their knees for.

You can't beat a WHM at healing. Don't try.

I have never heard anyone noteworthy ever suggest that WHM is a "gimp" job. All high-end content includes WHM in virtually every group. If a group is looking for a healer, and you have all the basic healing jobs available, you'll almost always be asked to come as WHM unless you need to Refresh someone in which case RDM is the choice.

Now as for SCH, it 's not a primary healing job though it serves the role competently with the only major complaint being that it lacks Haste (which is appropriate since it gets so many other things). SCH serves as a competent Magic DD in addition to being able to heal.

[Ameroth]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

It's obvious I am more experience than Ameroth, he thinks having stona/viruna/cursna/etc earlier matters when no one ever fights mobs that use those moves. I think it's because his only 75 is a PLD and he imagines that people go to other camps besides the ones he did on his only 75, or perhaps he thinks people still level up in pre-toau camps? Again, lack of experience.

So far every post you have made here consists of you trying to show how much better you are than everyone else. But it's not working and you're just annoying.

I understand that grinding yourself stupid on exp all day, everyday makes you feel happy and secure. However, lots of people play FFXI and enjoy their time regardless of how many hours they can or cannot devote to grind. What's really foolish is that you seem to assume spells, abilities, etc are worthless if they don't have a practical use in exp/merit parties. It's sad that you base how great of a player you are off how much exp you can stand to sit through. Because there are a lot, a lot, of other players who, guaranteed, are better at their jobs than you are, and with half (or less) as many omfgLevel75z as you.

You really need to step down from the soapbox. Like down into the basement with the shoddy lighting and no staplers.

[Phanex]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

What? No one brought up how awsome smn main heal is yet?? LOL J/K don't hate please. lol

But kidding aside, I think WHM is best at healing, and SCH is more towards support. I mean i'm sure SCH spend more time supporting the party with SS and Phalnex, vs. whm spending more time casting curing magics.

So when one asks about "Healing" it's always gonna be WHM imo, compaired to SCH.

Not saying SCH are not awsome in their own right, but SE is always trying to Make WHM the Pure Healer. I wouldn't be surprised if they came out with bar-amesia, and an amnesia-na spell for the whms in the next update.

[Rothy]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

It's obvious I am more experience than Ameroth

Anyone see something wrong with this?

Edit: Why is it whenever ospeff starts posting, these threads turn into giant flames of win?

[ospeff]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

Remember that when you say that SCH is better at -na spells that in order for SCH to use -na spells, they have to abandon the powerful /RDM sub in favor of the less popular /WHM. This causes loss of Fast Cast, Phalanxga, Enspellga, and Gravityga--you can't have it both ways.

What are you talking about? SCH gets -na spells natively, it doesn't need the WHM sub at all.

And SCH get Stona too actually, they get *every* -na spell natively, do some research.


---------- Post added at 06:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:47 AM ----------

I understand that grinding yourself stupid on exp all day, everyday makes you feel happy and secure. However, lots of people play FFXI and enjoy their time regardless of how many hours they can or cannot devote to grind.

What are you trying to say? I spend more time than you in Dynamis, Limbus, Nyzul, HNMs, etc. my experience over you stretches far beyond simply leveling, you are an amateur.

[Nuriko]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

There is at least one rather good camp that requires Stona, in Onzozo. It's not a frequently-used camp, but it's great if you know what you're doing.

Also, I think there are two things being debated here, XPing and endgame. I'd have to say that WHM has it as the endgame healer (unless it's something like covering a whole ally for cures, where the ability of Accession to -ga over a different PT comes to the fore), while SCH may well be stronger in XP if you can live without haste.

Also:

What are you trying to say? I spend more time than you in Dynamis, Limbus, Nyzul, HNMs, etc. my experience over you stretches far beyond simply leveling, you are an amateur.

Put it back in your pants, we're not interested.

[Dim Mahk]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

Well seeing how I truely HATE to level any part of WHM, I honor all WHM's who love play the true medical Dr's. of this land. I really would prefer WHM behind me also, And when I eat dirt, I want WHM to pick me up. I didnt know how to answer that poll question so I read all the above responses. And alot of them had great points. But based on the wording of the poll question I went with WHM, they are the better healer.

Good discussion guys

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

. Remember that when you say that SCH is better at -na spells that in order for SCH to use -na spells, they have to abandon the powerful /RDM sub in favor of the less popular /WHM.

No, they don't.

Addendum: White grants SCH access to -na spells, regardless of subjob. Addendum: White is accessible from level 10 onward. All /WHM does is prevent me from having to access Addendum: White for most -na spells, but if I need Stona, I still need Addendum: White.

[Sabaron]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

What are you talking about? SCH gets -na spells natively, it doesn't need the WHM sub at all.

And SCH get Stona too actually, they get *every* -na spell natively, do some research.

I did do research, but it was on the rest of the items in the post. I simply overlooked the native -na spells while looking at the SCH spell list (which I had open)--It's just one of my temporary idiocy things. You'll notice that there were only two impeachable sentences in my post, both of which have now been excised.

No, they don't.

Addendum: White grants SCH access to -na spells, regardless of subjob. Addendum: White is accessible from level 10 onward.

Also, you seem to have forgotten SCH gets every last status cure WHM does through Addendum: White, Stona included.

MB I forgot about that.

The rest of my post is still true though, and Ospeff is still an ass. He seems to have become awfully uppity about this...

---------- Post added at 10:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 AM ----------

What? No one brought up how awsome smn main heal is yet?? LOL J/K don't hate please. lol

It's not really kidding.... SMN has some formidable stuff going on especially with /SCH:

3/tick refresh naturally (Auto-refresh + Sublimation), plus Elemental Siphon. SMN has the second best MP pool next to RDM who is the #1 MP generator in the game.

Hastega: 3 minute 15% AoE Haste for 129mp, buffs 3 people for just 9mp more than regular haste and buffs 4 or more people for the same price, very efficient.

Noctoshield: 3 minute 13 point Phalanx effect, Area of Effect of course.

Earthen Ward: Stoneskinga (Avatar Level x 2) + 50 HP (up to 200 points).

Shining Ruby: 3 minute defensive Protect/Shell combo buff (10% bonus).

Ecliptic Howl: 3 minute +26 total moon phase based Accuracy (full)/Evasion (new) buff.

Ecliptic Growl: 3 minute +8 STR/DEX/VIT (full) or AGI/INT/MND/CHR (new).

Aerial Armor: Blinkga

Rolling Thunder, Frost Armor, Lightning Armor: Not the greatest buffs, but Rolling Thunder (especially with /SCH) is on par with the similar SCH buff. The shorter durations on these spells make them less palatable for a SMN with their 48-60 second recast timer, but they are still an interesting comparison.

The most enmity-efficient -ga cures in the game:
Spring Water: AoE -na ga that occasionally removed Slow plus (Level x 3) + 47 HP + TP Bonus for 99mp.

Healing Ruby II: AoE cure for (28 + (Level x 4))+ TP Bonus for 124mp.

Whispering Wind, Healing Ruby: Not particularly efficent spells: WW for it's bad MP/HP ratio and HR for it's single-targetness (why would you ever waste a Ward pact by using HR instead of Cure III?).

Summoner is a good support job as well on par with SCH. Summoner doesn't have erase without /WHM sub, but its buff pacts (up to 3 of which can be active at once), more than make up for that. Lack of Cure IV is a possible concern, but the mitigation provided by Earthen Ward counters that a bit.

[ospeff]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

LOL @ SMN being on par with SCH.

[Sabaron]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

LOL @ SMN being on par with SCH.

Is that an unsupported LOL claim? Explain why or GTFO.

[Andrinor]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

I think the next job Ospeff out to level to 75 is Tact. He'll have to unlock it first. Seriously man, you have a good argument, why hamper it by being an ass about it? It doesn't impress anyone here.

Personally I could care less whether I'm being main-healed by a SCH, WHM, RDM or SMN. I've seen crappy players on all of them who have no clue at all, and I've seen excellent players on all of them who make what tools they have work their best. If you're doing your best at any of these healing jobs, chances are the party will be just fine and we're just bickering about nuances.

[wrongfeifong]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

Why no one even talk about how Cure V is so useful on not getting yourself kill from 61+ on ward? The reason your 60+ group wipe is due to your healer being KILLED a.k.a RDM+SCH overcast Cure IV then wipe.

SCH's stratgem isn't "unlimited" you still have to regen it. So you got stoneskin + phalanx, it might hit you migrate 2-3 hits, but now you need to wait for your next 2 strategram.

Personally, i don't use curega IV a lot but whenever i am in a pitch, It save my group. (as long you don't DS it) Curega IV doesn't pull as much aggro as curega III (at least its how i feel).

Not to mention, cure power of a whm is stronger then SCH because noble tunic (+10), power of Regen III is stronger then SCH (WHM AF) and effectiveness of Barspell are so much better then SCH (AF armor + merit)

The speed of cast cure rate beats SCH, pro V shell V is still better period and doesn't EAT 2 strategem.

WHM 2 hour pwn SCH 2hr

What else you want? WHM >>> SCH in healing for sure.

[Vyuru]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

What else you want? WHM >>> SCH in healing for sure.

I sorta disagree.

As said earlier, Whm/Sch = Sch/Whm, or Sch/Rdm in exp parties for different reasons. Whm does it through curing, Sch does it through party buffs. Both get the job done with the same amount of relative ease.

So yes, in a very black and white sense you might be able to say that Whm/Sch can outheal a fullblown Sch, since Sch focuses more on damage avoidance/reduction than actual healing. But it HAS to be Whm/Sch or else the Sch will be the better healer.

IMO you're not fully appreciating just how much stacked Phalanx and Stoneskin reduce damage.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: New Age Healer Question. Whm Vs Sch?

Why no one even talk about how Cure V is so useful on not getting yourself kill from 61+ on ward? The reason your 60+ group wipe is due to your healer being KILLED a.k.a RDM+SCH overcast Cure IV then wipe.

Who casts Cure IV all the time? I can't think if one person in any job that does it. SCH can do Rapture > Cure III to get closer to Cure IV without as drastic an enmity spike and less MP spent

SCH's stratgem isn't "unlimited" you still have to regen it. So you got stoneskin + phalanx, it might hit you migrate 2-3 hits, but now you need to wait for your next 2 strategram.

Ever notice how lots of people sub /NIN? Put Stoneskin under and Phalanx on top that SS lasts a bit, especially if you have a PLD or Haste NIN tank. PLD with Stoneskin + Phalanx on can take several hits before SS will actually wear off. Stoneskin for a NIN tank is going to let him recast shadows even more safely than before he had it.

A SCH will have plenty of time to get thier Stratagems back, if you apply your Accessions wisely. Most of the time in burn PTs, my other melees don't even lose HP because they're got extra protection beneath shadows and Phalanx to preserve Stoneskin a bit longer.

Not to mention, cure power of a whm is stronger then SCH because noble tunic (+10), power of Regen III is stronger then SCH (WHM AF) and effectiveness of Barspell are so much better then SCH (AF armor + merit)

This is like saying Elvaan are better WHMs than Tarus because Elvaan have higher MND. It doesn't matter how much you can cure for if you can't keep up the MP to cure with. SCH and WHM/SCH seem quite capable in this regard.

SCH doesn't need potency gear, they have Rapture.

The speed of cast cure rate beats SCH.

SCH gets 10% reduced casting time by default on Light Arts and then they can sub RDM. No special gear or merits needed.

WHM 2 hour pwn SCH 2hr

I dunno unlimited access to more damage mitigation in a pinch at lower MP costs, cheaper cures, higher nuke damage at half the cost OR almost refilling everyone's HP to full for which you're certain to die.

I'm partial to Tabula Rasa there.

---------- Post added at 01:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:13 PM ----------

Is that an unsupported LOL claim? Explain why or GTFO.

I'll save you time, the reason is that he has more 75s than you do.