Newbie Whm questions

[EternalMalachi]

Re: Newbie Whm questions

The problem with Flash is that its a hate spike, a mini provoke, on par with Animated Flourish. Pld are more understanding of a whm Flash because they generally have a stronger hold on the mob than a ninja. From what I've come across, Nin tanks can BARELY hold hate. A lot of the ones I've seen are geared for evasion, so their dmg is mediocre, meaning they rely on not getting hit and the elemental wheel to hold hate. I HATE to pt as my drk with a nin tank because that means I end up tanking half the time.

If your blink tank is taking dmg, toss a flash. If they piss and moan, let 'em die next time, or boot 'em and find a better tank.

If your tank loses hate to a Drk, toss a Flash. You'll garner less hate with a flash than the cure you'd have to throw the drk after the hits. Plus, Drk def is usually garbage, so that Flash may be enough to keep them from being 1 shotted. ^.^` Keep an eye, though. If the drk is /sam he should toss up 3rd eye, weapon bash, and stun. If the tank STILL hasn't pulled hate back, throw the flash and hope the mob dies before it wears off. ^.^'

If the mob turns to Rng, toss a Flash. Again, odds are your Flash won't pull hate off the rng who just turned the mob.

If the mob turns to you, FLASH and throw up a Stoneskin if you don't have it up already. You are squishy and the PT relies on you for heal/raise.

Also make sure your pld tank is utilizing cover when he DOES lose hate. If whoever pulled hate is getting creamed, throw a Flash to buy them time to get behind pld, or if pld does cover and it wears off w/ the hate stealer still #1 on the Hit list.

Flash is situational. My whm tosses flash all the time in order to build her skills and because I never lose hate. ^.^ You may not be able to use it so freely all the time, but it can make the difference between life and death for a player or a party.

Haste is also situational. Nin tanks NEED haste for their shadow recasts. Pld and any other tank can use it for spell/ability recasts, as well as hitting more often for hate. You can use haste for spell recasts, as well. One plus of casting on yourself first is that you'll see when it drops, so you'll know when to restart the haste cycle, making sure that your charges are never w/out haste for very long, if at all.

I love regen for shadow tanks because it pulls less hate than a cure, and they shouldn't be getting hit much, anyways. Pullers should get regen, and anyone who takes a couple stray hits.

I DO NOT like regen on my pld, though. Curing myself is one way I build hate, so I am quick to remind any healer not to heal me to full. If I tend to drop in the yellow, then I'll let them know to toss me a regen just to keep me on the safe side.

[Armando]

Re: Newbie Whm questions

In an ideal world WHM would/should flash 24/7 whenever its timer is up. Unfortunately like TGM said most tanks are flippin' idiots and that deters most WHMs from Flashing by default.

[Firewind]

Re: Newbie Whm questions

The problem with Flash is that its a hate spike, a mini provoke, on par with Animated Flourish. Pld are more understanding of a whm Flash because they generally have a stronger hold on the mob than a ninja. From what I've come across, Nin tanks can BARELY hold hate. A lot of the ones I've seen are geared for evasion, so their dmg is mediocre, meaning they rely on not getting hit and the elemental wheel to hold hate. I HATE to pt as my drk with a nin tank because that means I end up tanking half the time.

If your blink tank is taking dmg, toss a flash. If they piss and moan, let 'em die next time, or boot 'em and find a better tank.

If your tank loses hate to a Drk, toss a Flash. You'll garner less hate with a flash than the cure you'd have to throw the drk after the hits. Plus, Drk def is usually garbage, so that Flash may be enough to keep them from being 1 shotted. ^.^` Keep an eye, though. If the drk is /sam he should toss up 3rd eye, weapon bash, and stun. If the tank STILL hasn't pulled hate back, throw the flash and hope the mob dies before it wears off. ^.^'

If the mob turns to Rng, toss a Flash. Again, odds are your Flash won't pull hate off the rng who just turned the mob.

If the mob turns to you, FLASH and throw up a Stoneskin if you don't have it up already. You are squishy and the PT relies on you for heal/raise.

All of this is very, very good advice and should be followed. Though the last comment worries me. You don't have S.Skin+Blink+Aquaveil up all the time on WHM? They are all extremely cheap buffs that change you from just another a squishy mage to one of the more survivable jobs in the game.

EDIT: I missed out the "if you don't have it up already" part but my comment still stands. If you're stupid enough to put the entire party at risk by pulling hate without those buffs up then you'd better have RR up because I'm just going to leave you there.

I DO NOT like regen on my pld, though. Curing myself is one way I build hate, so I am quick to remind any healer not to heal me to full. If I tend to drop in the yellow, then I'll let them know to toss me a regen just to keep me on the safe side.

Actually Regen III is enough to keep any decently equipped Paladin going for a long, long time at later levels especially when the PLD is utilising thier full range of JA's and damage mitigating gear. It saves a lot of MP and the PLD can save thier MP for hate between pulls by simply letting Regen cure them and going back to self-healing when the fight starts.

A fully merited Regen III is also very close to a free Cure 1 every tick so I'm pretty sure that no tank will complain about that especially considering that most things you usually exp on at those levels die so fast the tank rearely takes enough damage to warrant curing them, especially a Paladin.

I don't think I've met a Paladin that has lost hate from me keeping them fully healed. I know my hate threshold for the average PLD tank (so high I can usually cast what without worry) as well as the average WAR tank (Not high enough) or NIN tank (nowhere near high enough).

Seriously I WILL keep Regen III up on every Paladin and Flash when the party bloody well needs it. I don't care if the tank complains. Those spell plus the refresh from the RDM/BRD/COR are in the long term saving you a ton of MP you can save for hate generation. If you don't like it you can find another healer or better yet another party.

In an ideal world WHM would/should flash 24/7 whenever its timer is up. Unfortunately like TGM said most tanks are flippin' idiots and that deters most WHMs from Flashing by default.

In an ideal world parties would know that WHMs have spells other than "Haste", "Regen III" and "Cure III" but they seem to forget our spellbok contents until they need a 1HP/tick poison cured.

[Susurrus]

Re: Newbie Whm questions

If you are a WHM level 33+ and you don't have Reraise up in a hostile area, you are wrong.

[Solymir]

Re: Newbie Whm questions

In an ideal world parties would know that WHMs have spells other than "Haste", "Regen III" and "Cure III" but they seem to forget our spellbok contents until they need a 1HP/tick poison cured.

This may a good thread to mention something that bugs me as a whm, especially after Firewind mentioned this. If you are in a party/alliance with a whm or /whm, and you happen to get poisoned do not demand an immediate poisona. My priorities are to keep everyone alive, and achieve the goal(s) we are there to achieve. I am not there to minimize every single tick of hp damage you may be affected by. I do like it when they tell me they have a debuff in party chat, just in case I missed it in the chat log or the animation. Just don't spam it or "yell" at me. I will get to it when I reach you on the priority list. Sometimes if it is a mob that can sleep them and the poison is tier I-II I will leave it on them so I won't have worry about "ZOMG ZZZZZZZZZ" in party chat. which by the way, I don't mind you telling me you're zzz, just once again don't spam it or "yell".

So this doesn't sound like just another pet peeve reply, here comes the Whm job advice part.

If someone in your party/alliance gets poisoned/dia'd/bio'd you should do your best to remove these debuffs from them however you need to prioritize when to remove them. I'm horrible at lists, but I'll try one here to illustrate what I mean.

Your Priorities
1. Heal the member who currently has hate
2. Repose any links other members were not able to sleep
3. Heal the tank(s) sometimes you will be in an alliance and have multiple tanks
4. Heal other members with low hp. Depending on how low hp is you can use Cures or Regens.
5. Cure debuffs on members
6. Flash appropriately
7. Cast debuffs on the mob(s)


If I missed anything on the list please feel free to add. As I said, I suck at them.

Edit: I forgot to add two comments. If someone has poison/dia/bio and are in red hp, make sure you get that DoT off of them. Lastly, it is your job to keep people alive, it is not your job to keep them at 100% hp. However, as with anything in this game, that statement is situational. If you are in the tank party at a Kirin fight (I am speaking from experience in nonzerg fights) do your best to keep the tanks at 100%, especially at the time of his 2hr summon. I assume the same can be said for HNM battles, but I have only ever done King Behemoth, and that was a very long time ago.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Newbie Whm questions

The problem with Flash is that its a hate spike, a mini provoke, on par with Animated Flourish.

Yes, I know all of this. I don't spam Flash, I use it only when necessary. I've just had more than my fair share of bad tanks I guess because I've only gotten negative feedback about it. One pt had all 5 other members in a huge conversation about why whm should have never gotten flash in the first place, talk about making me feel like an ass. ><

Sometimes if it is a mob that can sleep them and the poison is tier I-II I will leave it on them so I won't have worry about "ZOMG ZZZZZZZZZ" in party chat. which by the way, I don't mind you telling me you're zzz, just once again don't spam it or "yell".

Speaking of zzzz, if the mob does a Sleepga spell and I'm standing there doing nothing....IT'S BECAUSE I'M ASLEEP TOO. You can spam zzz all you want but that Curaga isn't going to come any faster buddy.

[lionx]

Re: Newbie Whm questions

I apologize if this was answered in another thread but i have a few specific questions regarding whm gameplay that I desire some answers to:
1. what should I sub? (My plan right now is to do whm>18 blm>37 sch>37 and whm>75) I figured that blm would last me until sch was ready and that I would make sch my main sub. please correct me if this is a bad choice. (was planning on leveling smn for a sub eventually as well. just dont know what order I should level subs in)
2. How should I cap divine magic skill? I'm relatively new to the game and as such I dont really know how to go about capping skills that I rarely use in a party. I understand that at higher levels divine is used for Repose and that I should try to keep it leveled, but I'm not really sure how to go about leveling it.
3. How should I use Regen effectively? I'm hearing amazing things about regen, but who exactly do I cast it on? O.o
4. Who do I haste? This is a while down the road but I'd like to be prepared ahead of time I was wondering who I should haste and in what priority they should get it.

I think that is it as far as my questions go. Many thanks in advance to any constructive answers. Also, if any of you know of a solid whm guide I could look over it would be greatly appreciated. I read the whm hints and tips thread and got some use out of it but I'm always interested in learning more

Maeru
Tarutaru White Mage

1.) I would sub BLM for most purposes until you can use Penury and able to activate your Arts for SCH sub. Then afterwards, most of the time i believe its better than every other sj out there.

Situational stuff is subs like SMN...but i honestly have not needed to use that one ever yet. Its stuck at 29 once SCH was out.

Most people forget that SCH also gets a Conserve MP Trait (although you get it later at lvl 50 if subbed) when you sub it. This nullifies BLM's trait essentially after a certain level. Combine it with Light Arts and you got one efficient subjob. I would use SCH for everything including exp, assaults/nyzul, and even COP after a certain point. BLM has been regulated to be a traveling subjob for me now.

Only bad things i can say is you dont get Tractor and Escape if you sub SCH instead of BLM. Other than that theres no reason to sub BLM outside of travel.

2.) Flash, spam it as much as you can. If the BLM and DRK can use Stun(which i think has the same hate spike) then you should be able to use this too. I have very little fear of using Flash in most of my EXP parties. Though when you first get it, it might be some problem, but thats what Crow Gear is for.

The benefits of Flash is monumental if you do it right. Can give PLD pseudo god evasion, and help a NIN get his Ichi up once you see him get smacked. Dont hesitate. The MP you save from avoiding a hit is alot more than actually casting the Cure spell. Coordinate it, and it can prolong not only someone's HP, but also your MP pool.

3.) I would always use Regen over Cures if given the chance. They are a hands free and almost hate free spell and it can save you MP like crazy. I usually cast Regen right after Haste, during my Haste cycles among the Tank or any badly hurt Melee and alternate them if they arent in immediate danger. People underestimate how strong Regen is, if someone is in Yellow or early Orange (and of course isnt a retard), then a Regen II or III can easily buff out their HP without me having to Cure them at all. This can save so much MP. I like to avoid Curing unless theres potential for One-shotting, or they are really deep on orange/red so save MP.

Total HP healed without Merits:

Regen 1 - 125 HP.
Regen 2 - 240 HP
Regen 3 - 400 HP

People underestimate Regen's potential imo.

4.) Every single damn body thats a melee that cant haste him or herself. Tank first, then its your discretion.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Newbie Whm questions

4.) Every single damn body thats a melee that cant haste him or herself. Tank first, then its your discretion.

I disagree. Haste is a 40 mp spell. Hasting an assload of people can be detrimental to the party, in some instances. I always haste the tank, period. When it comes to other people in the party I wait and see for a few pulls. Do I have a drk in the party thats decided to stack all of their abilities and get massive hate? Ya, his ass isn't getting haste. Do I have a rng in the party? Yep, they don't need haste. Do I have a thf in the party and do I have the spare mp or do I need to rest a lot? I have spare mp, then I haste the thf. I don't have spare mp, the thf gets no haste.

First the tank gets haste, then 2 handed weapon users that don't have their heads up their asses get haste, and after that its a crap shoot. As for hasting myself, I did it in the lower levels but I don't do it all the time now.

[lionx]

Re: Newbie Whm questions

Personally i never had any problems with MP when hasting unless the party sucks in general with them getting hit too often outside of the tank.

I also of course mean dont haste the RNG or COR...thats stupid xD But for every melee that can, i usually do it especially in a merit PT. Outside of special situations, theres no reason not to, and 40 MP(without Light Arts) dont seem that much after a couple levels to me anyway. If it ends fights faster, i save more MP.

EDIT: Ok maybe it can be a drain when you first get the spell. But i do remember after a certain point even subbing BLM i was able to Haste all melees in a competent pt.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Newbie Whm questions

Other than that theres no reason to sub BLM outside of travel.

Disagreed. Granted, I'm going to break one of the cardinal rules here and talk about use of the job at endgame, but, in endgame, I use BLM sub a lot more than I thought I would. Cerberus and Khimaira need ES + Slowed, and a lot of times we have no more than 10 people fighting, sometimes only one party of 6. WHM/BLM is important for these situations, so I wouldn't say it's just a travel sub for me, but I do have to understand when it's better to use it.

[EternalMalachi]

Re: Newbie Whm questions

I am not there to minimize every single tick of hp damage you may be affected by.

Two things to say:

1) I'm a Galka pld. I'm fine w/ poison in battle, but I NEED to heal between pulls because my mana pool is pitiful. I won't yell, but I do expect to get poisona fairly quick. I actually like having poison on in PT if the mob has AoE sleep.

2) Slow/Bio are murder for my drk and pld. Slow is never an issue if I have haste on, but as my drk, bio makes me less useful, and as my turtle pld, bio makes a poor thing worse. There is no cause for yelling about it, since I'm such a nice guy anyways, but those are things I do ask about.

^.^'

[Aksannyi]

Re: Newbie Whm questions

PLDs are one thing, random DDs are another. If a random DD bugs me about a silly 1hp/tick poison in the middle of Dynamis when I've got others to actually cure from the depths of extremely low HP, they can eat a dick.

I have a lot of whiny melees around me at times, who think they should always be my number one priority. They're not always. As the WHM, I make the decision who/what gets cured first. If I'm in a DD party and I have a whiner in my party, I'll be sure he's first on my haste/cure/poisona/paralyna/etc. list. If I have two, I'll pick the whinier of the two.

BUT

If you're the whiner but random other DD who doesn't bother me needs a Cure 5, guess who's getting taken care of first? You have poison, Mr. Whiner? Suck it up bitch, Quiet Dude needs a cure.