Counting Shadows. Whose responsibility is it?

[Feba]

Re: Counting Shadows. Whose responsibility is it?

1- You're fighting mandies. That is NOT A GOOD TIME FOR A BLINK TANK. Those things suck enough for a NIN with Ni and amazing evasion and haste stuffs. You're around lv30, YOUR NIN DOES NOT HAVE THOSE THINGS. You should've told the WAR to switch to /MNK or something and meat shield it up.

That is the most important thing here. The other thing is ONLY for situations where a blink tank is a valid choice (READ: NOT THERE)

2- If you're dual tanking, you need to watch the other person's shadows. Constantly hitting a macro to say "shadows down" is absolutely retarded. By the time you hit that macro, the other person should have ALREADY hit their voke macro. That WAR/NIN should not need help; a WAR/NIN doesn't have that much to keep track of, counting shadows is not a problem.

3- The NIN is an idiot. The main point of blink tanking is that you DO NOT GET HIT. If you DO get hit, it should not be happening often enough that it's a problem. You cure people when they're bloody, not when their shadows fall.

4- It is the NIN's responsibility to track their own shadows so they can recast. If you can't do that, you're SOL when you get to :Ni and you HAVE to keep shadows up.



Really, the problem here isn't a matter of "who's responsibility is it". That's just like trying to figure out why your perpetual motion machine has stopped turning. What you need is to do it properly in the first place.

[Lunaryn]

Re: Counting Shadows. Whose responsibility is it?

Not sure what to add, particularly as the OP confuses me. Where in the jungles are you fighting Mandragora at level 37+ (when NIN gets Utsusemi: Ni)? NIN isn't a particularly great tank against mandies anyway, a properly geared WAR will do better there. When I took NIN through 25-30 levels I geared it similarly to my WAR, a bit more evasion but still fairly heavy on def. (Obviously no switch to Kampf gear at 29, though :p )

If the healers are practically co-tanking, "not healing enough" is definitely not the issue. If the healers are doing anything wrong there it'd be overhealing, or not using Regens effectively enough, but it sounds like the tanks either weren't managing hate well, or had too little def, or both. You can't stick with a pure blink-tanking mentality in that kind of situation, you need to be prepared to at least partially blood-tank. WAR/NIN can be pretty effective here, but you have to go in knowing your shadows won't protect you, only shave off a bit of damage. Gear for def, eat def food. NIN/WAR can be expected to balance a bit more between def and eva, but needs to expect to be caught with shadows down. I'd consider the WAR to be main tank and NIN to be backup tank in this scenario.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Counting Shadows. Whose responsibility is it?

Luna, the OP never said that they were in a 37+ pt, fyi.

Some people are lazy. Those people may be fortunate enough early in their careers to fall to Darwinism and get totally turned off from a job and save us a headache.

You don't need shadows in the jungle, especially not on mandies who only hit for 20-30 damage a punch, and don't resist enfeebles.

[Lunaryn]

Re: Counting Shadows. Whose responsibility is it?

Luna, the OP never said that they were in a 37+ pt, fyi.

The OP specifically referenced the rate at which said mobs ate through Utsusemi: Ni. Utsusemi: Ni is a level 37 spell.

[Feba]

Re: Counting Shadows. Whose responsibility is it?

Lunaryn, personally I chucked that up to the OP not really knowing what Ni is.


I mean, when you consider that they were FIGHTING MANDIES WITH A BLINK TANK, it's not exactly a huge stretch of the imagination.

[Omni]

Re: Counting Shadows. Whose responsibility is it?

tanking mandies with shadows isnt the best idea (b/c its more troublesome than effective) but at lvls 25-32, those things hit so soft that just about any melee job can tank them.

[Feba]

Re: Counting Shadows. Whose responsibility is it?

but at lvls 25-32, those things hit so soft that any job can tank them.

Fixed.

I've tanked mandies as a WHM. In a party that was made up of three or four WHMs.

They're that weak.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Counting Shadows. Whose responsibility is it?

The OP specifically referenced the rate at which said mobs ate through Utsusemi: Ni. Utsusemi: Ni is a level 37 spell.

Wow, you're actually right. >_> My apologies.

/humble

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Counting Shadows. Whose responsibility is it?

2- If you're dual tanking, you need to watch the other person's shadows. Constantly hitting a macro to say "shadows down" is absolutely retarded.

Leave it to Feba to say exactly what I'm thinking. LOL

[Kailea]

Re: Counting Shadows. Whose responsibility is it?

Leave it to Feba to say exactly what I'm thinking. LOL

agreed

if your dual tanking both tanks need to watch each others shadows, that dual tanking 101 -.-


sounds like these tanks failed that class ;p

[Nuriko]

Re: Counting Shadows. Whose responsibility is it?

If I'm dual-tanking, I tend to let the other tank take a hit at times, since it's entirely possible for mobs to miss ... it depends on how fast they're going through shadows. Of course, I should probably adjust my healer-specific chat settings, since as things stand, I only see my own shadows dropping...

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Counting Shadows. Whose responsibility is it?

Fixed.

I've tanked mandies as a WHM. In a party that was made up of three or four WHMs.

They're that weak.

Wait, wait, wait. Wait.

Wouldn't that mean Ninjas wouldn't need shadows to tank mandies, then?

[Feba]

Re: Counting Shadows. Whose responsibility is it?

Well, in theory, but that Ninja was obviously a pussy. Pussies can't tank.

Also, you have to consider the fact that I am pretty damn kickass.

[Armando]

Re: Counting Shadows. Whose responsibility is it?

I disagree on the bit about a message macro being retarded. Sometimes hate shifts around and shadow counts get messy. It's also a nice heads-up for the healer. Just toss it out moments before you lose the shadow to account for human reaction time.

But yes. The cotank should be counting. Any message, if there is one, is just a safety measure.

[Feba]

Re: Counting Shadows. Whose responsibility is it?

If your hate is shifting around and getting shadow counts muddled up often enough to need a macro, YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG.

That macro is no more needed than "<WHM> Oh shit I have hate help me out". First off, it should NOT COME UP OFTEN ENOUGH TO NEED IT IN EASY REACH. Secondly, WHEN IT DOES HAPPEN, PEOPLE SHOULD NOT NEED TO HAVE A CHAT LINE TO LET THEM KNOW.