WHM merit points: Where should they go?

[Irisjir Callard]

Actually, where should I put mine would be the most appropriate question.

Current merits:
Two levels of Max MP+
One each of Devotion, Prot5, and Shel5

Current plans:
Most likely I will cap out Max MP, and Spell Interruption. Currently those are the only two categories I have made a solid decision about.
I am not tampering with my enimity in either direction. Thought about it, turned the idea over very carefully in my head, and decided this was something I didn't want to muck with.

Of my twelve slots for combat skills, I plan to merit evasion first, then club, and possibly sheild after that.


The Questions:

Of my eight possible slots, how should I fit my magic skill merits together? I am looking at enfeebling magic very thoughtfully for this one.
Is cure skill merits worth the work to put into them, or would it only be two or three HP per cure 4 per merit?
Also, is there any practical application for raising my Enhancing Magic skill farther?
*Will raising Enhancing magic have a discernible effect on spells such as Haste, Regen, Prot/Shel, Sneak, Invis, Stoneskin, Reraise?*

*note* My enhancing magic skill is already capped. It is my only natural magical skill that has capped so far, even though I have never made any attempt to skill it up. I skill up curing magic whenever I have idle time on my hands, yet I have only recently gotten past 240 with it. You can look at this information two ways, either say "Omg gimp" and put no further thought into your response...in which case don't even bother posting your knee-jerk reaction...or you can think for a moment and realize that I just explained exactly what type of WHM I am and what spells I have use for, and what spells I tend not to need. Not to say I refuse to use the Cure family at all...just that...I rarely have the need to.


Of my ten slots for WHM-specific merits, should I even bother using any for barspell effectiveness?
I know many WHM's out there have maxed out cure casting time, how useful is this overall?
*I understand that cure casting time does not actually shorten the time spent casting, just alters the 'effect point' of the spell...so even though a 10 second cast takes effect at 7 seconds, I cannot cast something else for another 3 seconds, is this true? If this is true, is there a genuine benefit to meriting this ability, ESPECIALLY for a whitemage who resorts to cures only when forced to by heavy and rapid damage received?*

And yes, I plan to merit first and foremost of this category regen potency. The final question here;

As a whitemage who relies extraordinarily heavily on the regen trio, should I even bother meriting anything else?



Also, are there any categories I am overlooking? For example, of my attributes, mind is the only one that seems whm-slanted. On the other hand, of how much actual worth are mind+ merits with so much mind+ gear available? Perhaps +vit might be better, to reduce damage taken from AOE attacks in say, dynamsis? Or +agi for evasion boost? (yeah my evasion capped itself about 5 minutes after I hit 75... )


And lastly, yes, I adore soloing and meleeing, on the other hand, I am very proud of my effectiveness in the traditional back-line role, and extremely proud of the lack of deaths my PT's experience in dynamis (Currently the only endgame activity I regularly participate in...) While I am MORE than open to suggestions as to merit arrangements that will increase my soloing/meleeing power, I would rather not sacrifice party effectiveness to do so. My preferential setup is one that benefits both roles equally.

[Feenicks]

Re: WHM merit points: Where should they go?

If you don't want to tinker with Enmity merits, it sounds to me like you're planning on levelling another job to 75 - quite possibly a tanking job?

In which case it's best not to merit too much for WHM. Really, outside of WHM-specific merits there's not that much that is worth meriting that'll benefit WHM as much as it might benefit other jobs. Lets break this down:

HP/MP: For WHM, MP all the way. Yes, more HP will give you better survivability and a better Devotion/Martyr but +80MP is not to be snuffed at. In my honest opinion, all mage jobs should merit MP, everyone else should merit HP.

Attributes: The only one which really affects WHM is MND, and it doesn't do much apart from giving you a Cure V which is only just barely noticable. I would save meriting attributes for another job that can really use it such as BLM or the melee of your choice.

Combat Skills: WHM will not benefit from combat skills at all unless you really desperately want to solo a lot (in which case it's generally better to level a melee job). WHM has crappy evasion to begin with and +8 Evasion isn't going to make much difference when you're fighting anything which hits hard enough to worry about getting hit. Again, it's best if you save these for another job if you're planning to level something else to 75.

Magic Skills: If WHM is the only mage job you're going to level to 75, then it might be worth meriting Enfeebling Magic to help you land Slow and Paralyze if there's no RDM around. Other than that, meriting Healing Magic and Divine Magic are wasting good merit points. An extra +16 into Enhancing Magic will up your Bar-element spells from base 86 to base 89 and, assuming a character with MND=90, raise your Stoneskin absorb rate from 310 to 326. Again, this improvement is not worth it compared to the improvements +16 Enfeebling will mean to RDM, or +16 Elemental to a BLM.

Others: Enmity decrease will help you immensely as a WHM. However, as stated, if you want to level a tank job then this can be problematic. Spell Interruption isn't really worth doing that much since the only spell you really don't want to get interrupted is a Cure spell and you have a high enough Healing Magic ability to generally not get interrupted. And even if you're still paranoid about it, it's better to macro in a Hermit's Wand for 25% Interruption Rate rather than spend nine merit points on a total of only 8%.

Job Specific: The usage varies but the common consensus is that it's worth maxing Shellra V and Barspells if you're going to fight HNMs or anything which uses nasty -ga spells which can't be blinked. Divine Seal recast and Banish potency are of very little use. Cure casting speed is worth meriting too since faster Cures can situlationally help you a lot. Regen potency has only limited use for HNMs since Regen doesn't heal HP fast enough in most cases, however personally, since I don't do HNMs that much I put four merits into Regen potency for the sake of MP efficiency.

[Irisjir Callard]

Re: WHM merit points: Where should they go?

Even in dynamis, I find a constant cycle of regen helps out a lot more than cure spamming. In melee pt's, the damage they recieve is mostly AOEs, and the fact that it takes them a few minutes to come out of yellow is no big deal. In tanking pts, regen helps out PLD MP a great deal, usually runs to full effect, and gives no hate-pulling problems at all ever. The only time I ever seem to need the single-target cure batallion is when I'm in pulling pt's.

Most of the reason I decided not to tamper with enimity is because I don't really need enimity down, and, yes you got it, I may decide to level pld to 75, on the absolute opposite end of the hate spectrum.

Other than that, your information about the use of MND, cure skill, divine seal recast (Which I hadn't even thought about) merits is most useful, since at the moment I am more looking for information about what I shouldn't waste merit points on than what I mostly should.

[CalamityKate]

Re: WHM merit points: Where should they go?

I'm only level 69 so I'm not talking from experience in merits, but in parties I've been in, there has been quite a number of times when someone died while a Cure III (or V) was on the way. Even if I'm reacting as fast as is humanly possible, there's still the unavoidable delay of the spellcasting time.
A few weeks ago, I managed to buy a pair of Cure Clogs for a reasonable price, and the difference has been very noticeable. -15% is just great.

All the whm group 2 merits sound nice, but Cure spellcasting time is a no-brainer. Fully merit Cure spellcasting time, no questions. It may not be useful to you everyday - and I wish it won't ! - but when the going gets rough, when your party's in a dire situation, this single stat can totally mean the difference between a full wipe and a completed KS99.

After which, Regen potency or Barspells... I guess it's a question of style. I'm a huge aficionado of Regen, but enhanced Barspells with added MDB sound great too - and preventing damage is always better than soaking it up. I think I'd still max Regen potency because it's useful in almost every situation whereas Barspells are more situational ; but it's a tough call.

[Malacite]

Re: WHM merit points: Where should they go?

Too bad SE didn't allow WHM to merit cure potency....

Even @ 1-2% per merit that would just be awesome =/

[pounce321]

Re: WHM merit points: Where should they go?

I finally made WHM to 75 and i am wondering when i should open Protect V. Should i wait until my enhancing skill is capped or does that not matter with enhancing magic? Right now i can benefit from using my merits in other categories for other jobs, and i would hate to make another job suffer because i used my merits in a category which i won't receive maximum effect from (the Protect V).

[Olorin401]

Re: WHM merit points: Where should they go?

I finally made WHM to 75 and i am wondering when i should open Protect V. Should i wait until my enhancing skill is capped or does that not matter with enhancing magic? Right now i can benefit from using my merits in other categories for other jobs, and i would hate to make another job suffer because i used my merits in a category which i won't receive maximum effect from (the Protect V).

Protectra V is the last thing you should consider meriting in the 2nd Group. It's just not that good, and the minimal increase in defense can be found elsewhere (equipment, other merits, food). You would get more mileage from opening Devotion and Shellra V and tossing a couple merits into each.

[Icemage]

Re: WHM merit points: Where should they go?

Dynamis... Regen? You must be joking. People take damage way too fast in Dynamis to do anything resembling a reguler Regen cycle. 120+ seconds is an eternity when enemies are hitting for 150++++ damage.

As far as WHM merits themselves:

Shellra V is great. Does a very good job at stopping additional magic damage. Extra points should be considered.

Devotion is fantastic. Definitely consider pushing this all the way to level 3 if you're a full time WHM.

Martyr is so-so. Square-Enix really needs to make this ability stronger. It's barely usable at level 1, and not more so at higher levels, since the enmity rating is so high (akin to Cure IV), and only heals 1/2 of your current HP worth of damage while damaging you for 1/4 of current HP.

Protectra V is a complete waste of time IMO. 5 extra points of defense don't mean anything at level 75, for anyone.

If you seriously like soloing on WHM, go level RDM instead. Seriously. I though soloing on WHM was fun until my RDM hit 75. Way way better. My RDM 75 can sleepwalk through most fights that my WHM can't even survive.


Icemage

[Olorin401]

Re: WHM merit points: Where should they go?

Dynamis... Regen? You must be joking. People take damage way too fast in Dynamis to do anything resembling a reguler Regen cycle. 120+ seconds is an eternity when enemies are hitting for 150++++ damage.

Hey.. every little bit helps right? Toss the tank a Regen 3 between fights, and it does its job.

As far as the 150dmg thing.. well unless it's a MNK mob it shouldn't make much difference.. with Para/Slow 2 & Carnage Elegy keeping the attacks down so much that the Regen actually keeps up.

[Irisjir Callard]

Re: WHM merit points: Where should they go?

Dynamis... Regen? You must be joking. People take damage way too fast in Dynamis to do anything resembling a reguler Regen cycle. 120+ seconds is an eternity when enemies are hitting for 150++++ damage.
As far as WHM merits themselves:
Shellra V is great. Does a very good job at stopping additional magic damage. Extra points should be considered.
Devotion is fantastic. Definitely consider pushing this all the way to level 3 if you're a full time WHM.
Martyr is so-so. Square-Enix really needs to make this ability stronger. It's barely usable at level 1, and not more so at higher levels, since the enmity rating is so high (akin to Cure IV), and only heals 1/2 of your current HP worth of damage while damaging you for 1/4 of current HP.
Protectra V is a complete waste of time IMO. 5 extra points of defense don't mean anything at level 75, for anyone.
If you seriously like soloing on WHM, go level RDM instead. Seriously. I though soloing on WHM was fun until my RDM hit 75. Way way better. My RDM 75 can sleepwalk through most fights that my WHM can't even survive.
Icemage

I was actually fishing for exactly your response, since of all the users here you seem to know the most about general stuff without mincing words or spreading BS.

Regen in dynamis? Indeedy my dear, and my battle cry since doing regular dynamises has been "I wish I got regenga!"

Perhaps it's just my LS'es strategy, but so far I have been in every job pt (we stratify our jobs INTENSELY) and found that nearly the same technique works beautifully.

Melee PT: Mnk sam drk etc : The only incoming damage is AOE's and stray hits. No-body keeps hate for more than one smack, and even if it IS a sound hard smack to the head, the mob's moved on. I didn't used to bank on this effect, but I've learned that I can, and do. Regen means less time on my butt and less MP spent, so I usually give all 4 other members haste, a thing I can't do in normal parties because of the MP expense. Everyone hasted means faster kills, less stray AOEs, less damage incoming, less MP outgoing, everything just runs BETTER.

Tanking PT: pld and the RARE nin : Nin seems to be a DD job in my LS, not a tank job. We usually feild about eight pld's per dynamis run, four in a pt with a rdm and a whm, one such pt in each alliance, and their job is to run all over heavens and earth kiting whatever we're not fighting at the moment. If I drop a curenuke on them, I steal their hate, and boom, I die. Not in my best interests. Let the pld cure themselves, I stick on a regen to help their MP and the RDM does the rest with refresh. When the RDM gets bummed out having to refresh 5 people (4 plds and himself, I don't need it and usually tell a busy rdm to drop me out of the cycle) I toss him a devotion. Everyone has HP and MP, and I don't eat dirt every 5 minutes.

Puller/main assist : Both individual jobs. Usually not in the same party. I've been with both, and find that curing the puller is a REALLY fast ticket to deathville. So I don't even TOUCH my cure macros with a puller in my PT until all hate has been RESOUNDINGLY diverted onto my kiting pld's and main assist. Main assist, being a nin (like the puller) really only needs a good regen once in a while and a VERY good haste at all times. I don't let haste drop on either one, ever, I will interrupt a raise or a resting cycle to recast haste. Usually I don't have a redmage if I'm with either of those, instead, I have several auxilliary ninjas for backup pulling/deathpulling/magic assist for the BLM batallion/ backup main assist incase the primary eats dirt (Only once!) Kind of fun, I get to feel important because of course both the puller and MA are very important people, but I have to say, this is also the most BORING group I can get stuck in...rather be in the pld party keeping track of everything and it's MP bar so I have something to occupy myself.

BLM batallion : blm, smn : Five heavy magical DD in pt with a bard singing ballads and lullabies. They don't need a whm, they don't get a whm, I have no idea what I would do in this pt but I imagine it would be crying from boredom.


So the bottom rundown is, the only cases where I need cures at ALL in dynamis:
1. Covering one of my plds while their MP refreshes back.
2. Dropping emergency cures on another pt whose whm ran out of mp
3. In the unlikely case the puller is about to pull again and all his HP hasn't regened and it's a long huge pull that his utsuemi and crazy off the hook evasion won't quite completely cover.






As far as your merit thoughts:

I agree, protectra isn't worth the merit points in any real way. At the same time, I have it, and here is the irony: I have it so I don't "look gimp", when I would most likely be much more pt-effective had I put the merits into almost anything else of the unsung invisible tweaks available. Protectra V is the fashion on Midgard, and maybe the lumbering masses will wake up, but for now, any whm75 who doesn't have protectra V is targeted for worse ridicule than one who say, only has 237 healing skill.

Shellra V I haven't been overly thrilled by, on the other hand, I haven't exactly been studying it, so I can't say that I care one way or the other. I'm sure if I sat down and did a sidebyside comparison, I'd have more of an opinion. Right now it's on it's first tier, just enough I can cast the spell and nobody needs to know it's at the lol stage.

Devotion turned me from a whitemage into a little god. If I could devotion myself, I would become a greater god. Alas, I think I understand why the devs say it would overpower the class. But I dream, oh I dream.

Martyr I know nothing about except that everyone says it sucks.




And lastly...RDM is one of the two jobs in the game I have sworn not to touch. I live with a career rdm-blu, on the same server, and I have discovered that even sharing a LS opens up too many avenues for us to get into serious off-the-game fights. Sharing a job, ESPECIALLY one of the two jobs he is passionate about to the point of "no honey I'm not in the mood right now I'm watching videos about a blu on blu ballista" would be more stress than the relationship could handle.

Besides, I don't solo on WHM to be good at it. I do it because I'm not SUPPOSED to be good at it, yet, I can be. Much like how some people write graffiti when they could be doing still lifes with an easel and artist brushes. Killing the fourth ulg<tabkey> range buffalo in a row without stopping to rest is my graffiti. Tis an art and nothing more nor less.

[UnnamedGalka]

Re: WHM merit points: Where should they go?

For what it's worth, this is what I did with my WHM...everything I list has been capped:


Group 1:

Decrease Cure Casting Time
Increase Bar Spell Potency


Group 2:

Shellra V
Devotion


Miscellaneous: (stuff that I didn't merit strictly for WHM, but still has a major effect on it)

Increase Base MP
Increase Base Enfeebling Magic Skill


I have to say, I am very pleased with the results.

[silentsteel]

Re: WHM merit points: Where should they go?

Besides, I don't solo on WHM to be good at it. I do it because I'm not SUPPOSED to be good at it, yet, I can be. Much like how some people write graffiti when they could be doing still lifes with an easel and artist brushes. Killing the fourth ulg<tabkey> range buffalo in a row without stopping to rest is my graffiti. Tis an art and nothing more nor less.

Lol, Exactly why I want to be a whm DD ;p It is possible, just takes time lol

[Irisjir Callard]

Re: WHM merit points: Where should they go?

For what it's worth, this is what I did with my WHM...everything I list has been capped:
Group 1:
Decrease Cure Casting Time
Increase Bar Spell Potency
Group 2:
Shellra V
Devotion
Miscellaneous: (stuff that I didn't merit strictly for WHM, but still has a major effect on it)
Increase Base MP
Increase Base Enfeebling Magic Skill
I have to say, I am very pleased with the results.

I need to merit my enfeebling magic....it's being hell to skill up, but I want capped enfeebling and then some for those emergency sleep-bind-silence situations.

[Kyrial Arthian]

Re: WHM merit points: Where should they go?

A little tip for capping your enfeebling (and divine, and healing) is to spam spells on mobs in Besieged. Just make sure you don't pick a mob with a yellow name. ;P For Enfeebling, I'd spam Dia and Dia II, for divine, Banish, Banish II, and Flash, and for healing, Cure and sometimes Cure II (obviously only on undead). This is how I got all my non-enhancing skills capped (since I didn't have Sea yet at the time to use Hpemdes), and it worked wonderfully. I averaged 5-10 levels per Besieged, which is pretty awesome.

Anyway, as for merits, I'd say go with 5 barspell, 5 regen, 3 Devotion, 3 Shellra V, and full MP eventually. Barspells are very underrated in my opinion. With AF2 legs and capped enhancing, they are already quite potent. Add in barspell potency merits, and they become awesome. You just have to know how to use them. Fighting something that likes to AoE paralyze? Throw up a Barblizzara. Fighting flies? Put up Barwatera to reduce Cursed Sphere damage. Fighting NINs in Dynamis? Put up Barfira. I've noticed huge differences doing this, and they've saved many PTs from wipes.

As for magic skills, that's really up to you. I was gonna merit divine skill just cuz I liked throwing out Banish IIIs or Holys from time to times if I had MP to burn and nothing to spend it on. Then BLU came out, I fell in love with it, and I abandoned that idea in favor of full Blue Magic skill merits. With the recent patch I can of course do more, but considering how rarely I play WHM anymore (mostly only for Limbus now), I'm just gonna leave those open for in case I decide to level another job that I could use them on.

[Amele]

Re: WHM merit points: Where should they go?

for group I there's basically three ways to go (assuming you go 5/5 rather than something strange like 4/3/3) if you're an hnm whitemage, there's basically two ways to go (1 and 2)

1. barspells + curespeed (this is me)
2. barspells + regen
3. regen + curespeed (non hnm)

banish is a joke :/ although it might be a little better now that there's einherjar, the fact is that there's not enough stuff involving undead with resistances to use it on. ditto divine seal except it's even worse situationally (if DS was a 5 minute timer that could go down 12 seconds per merit, it might be worth it).

category II is more complicated: if you're in an HNM, shellra V gets 3 merits. period.
then devotion should get at least one point, the other two can be spent however.

if you're not in an hnm, at least one point in shell V is still a good idea, and you should probably put at least one point in devotion too. the other four points can be spent however.

in both cases, I personally wouldn't put any points into Protect V, but I could see spending one just to unlock the spell and shut people who don't understand defense curves up lol.