Endgame exp / merit parties for WHM

[Lanih]

At first I want to warn you, that this will probably turn out to be a huge rant. Right now I'm pretty much exhausted from exp grinding and I probably should go to sleep instead of writing this, but I need to get this thing out of my head. Forgive me for the possible errors and such in advance.

I'm currently about halfway through lv70, and I kind of have mixed emotions about the future of my WHM career. I could use a little pep-talk. Since ToAU came out, TP-burn parties seem to have become a huge trend, and there lies the reason why I'm so irked right now. The thing is, as you probably know, that there isn't much space for WHM:s [and certain other jobs] in those parties. Sure, invites might come, but those are exceptions only.

Burn-parties can get numbers like ~17k per hour on a constant basis, whereas the traditional pt-setups have to settle for less. And yes, even jobs like BRD:s and WAR:s can end up in a traditional setup, but I'm thinking in their case it's the exception <.<

And to the point. I like WHM. I don't hate any aspect of the job, though I like some things more than others. I don't want to level some job I don't even like, just to get merits.

How is this fair? Some jobs take three times the amount of work and sweating to get to the same point than other jobs, when it comes to meriting.

You could argue, that maybe I don't love WHM enough to spend three times more energy to get even with my NIN/BRD/whathaveyou friends, but it's not that... I'm ready to spend more time and energy, because I know it will benefit my LS, but is it fair? No, it's just not fair.

This is why I'm saying there's something broken. And WHM:s sure aren't the only job who's feeling it.

Not everyone has the time or interest to level a totally different/non-attractive job just to merit, even though a lot of people seem to do that. Some of my friends have done that too, and that's good for them. I just don't have that kind of time, and I'd really like to have fun while playing the job I love. Sometimes it's just a bit hard to have faith.

This was brought up by two friends of mine [NIN & BRD], who stormed to 70 in less than two months by staticking together, and are now complaining about 'sucky exp' in their first bad party in two months. 90% of the parties I've been in have had slow to average exp, the 10k+ parties aren't constant at all, so their comments just got me a bit down. I'm already thinking that I'd start leveling some other job after I hit 75, to get a little breather. But on the other hand, my WHM is needed in the HNM-scene in two months or so, and I'd like to have some merits in my pocket by then.

Nights like these just get me thinking if it's really worth it to grind merits like a maniac while others do it the speedy way. If it wasn't for the fact that my endgame-LS was started by my IRL-friends, I probably wouldn't bother. All that meriting, just to become a slave to some LS with people who can't even remember your name unless you've been active for half a year? Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.

I'd appreciate it if you'd give this some thought before you reply with something like 'go level BRD'. Thank you in advance, for not being an arse. ^^

[Sevv]

Re: Endgame exp / merit parties for WHM

If it makes you feel better I generally fail at typing/spelling/grammar because I dont ever recheck it. But onto your post...

Im not going to lie, I have Ninja and Warrior @ 75 for two reasons. One reason being my LS was short on both jobs, and the other was for merits. I consider my self first and foremost a Dragoon (not that I ever get to use it.). Burn PTs are HUGE right now there is no denying this, I dont know how Caitsith Rdm population is but full out burn party or a more "standard" party, Rdms tend to get alot more invites. Rdm + Brd combo is just amazing to shorten down time (not getting into the whole rdm v whm convo). Whm are still a high demand job for exp, I personally have seen them in a great deal of burn parties. Keep your head up and do your best people will remeber your name. When you make a good name for yourself people do a /sea all Shisui rather then a /sea all Rdm.

[Raydeus]

Re: Endgame exp / merit parties for WHM

You gotta consider many DD jobs (lolDRG) spend or used to spend waaay more time looking for party than any WHM ever will, so it's subjective.

Also, I dunno if this will make you feel better or not but the best burns do include WHMs. Sadly (like I've said many times before) that only seems to be the case with japanese players.

So my advice would be trying to make some JP friends if you can. <.<

[Sevv]

Re: Endgame exp / merit parties for WHM

You gotta consider many DD jobs (lolDRG) spend or used to spend waaay more time looking for party than any WHM ever will, so it's subjective.

Most people who arnt in the "loldrg" grouping but are drgs solo while lfp >.>

[Necropolis]

Re: Endgame exp / merit parties for WHM

White mage is my first job to 75, and is my only one at the moment. And I enjoy it a lot. I may not get the fastest invites, but I don't seem to seek long even as a whm. And I think it's foolish to say that whm can't fit into a TP burn party.

I've been in TP burns from bibiki bay all the way to Bhaflu Thickets off and on in my leveling career for white mage, and I've not noticed a poor exp/hr ratio. Most merit parties I'm in will hit at least 10k/hr and my best has been nearly 27k/hr. But they require a lot of work from a mage aspect IMO. Have to know how to maintain your MP, use your regens, barspells, and the like, and pay a little more attention than a mnk or war might have to.

Perhaps it's a server variance that TP parties on your servers don't think a whm can party well, or that there are enough bards and rdms for everyone that no one "settles" for a whm. Perhaps you could try setting up a few parties with various jobs that will work better for a whm. Personally I like Brd, Whm, war,war,war,nin. But brd, brd, whm, drk/sam, war, nin has yield a good 15k/hr party in the newer bhaflu areas (greater colbri and those buggard things).

Personally I enjoy leveling other jobs, and intend to have multiple 75 before the end of this year, but some people enjoy thier job and don't want to level other jobs like your self. I don't think that should be a problem either. People will need healers and you can provide that for them, and it's just a matter of getting into a few good parties that people will remember you and want to invite again and again.

Try making a party, or merit with your LS or friends. Exp doesn't always have to be a chore. My LS frequently merits with an alliance, and have a blast doing it. We even bring a leech or two along just to get exp for harder to level jobs, and we still do okay exp (rarly more than 10k/hr unless we are just pushing hard). I find meriting with friends and players you know that know thier job is much greater than pick up merit parties. It's fun to experiment new job combos, new camps and things like that.

I hope your outlook for merits improves, and that at least one thing I've mentioned helped in some way. Good luck!

P.S. Level bard >.>;; (sorry, had to say it )

[Sevv]

Re: Endgame exp / merit parties for WHM

Most merit parties I'm in will hit at least 10k/hr and my best has been nearly 27k/hr. But they require a lot of work from a mage aspect IMO. Have to know how to maintain your MP, use your regens, barspells, and the like, and pay a little more attention than a mnk or war might have to.

I give alot of credit to burn party mages they really make it happen.

[Amele]

Re: Endgame exp / merit parties for WHM

whm can be dropped into pretty much any slot that would be 'rdm' for 90% of the popular merit camps (perhaps whm/rdm for dispel) what you will need to do is pay very careful attention to your mp, rest when you can, and maximize your: refresh, conserve mp, and heal mp+ stats. look into investing in some +enfeebling gear to be able to stick those dispels and silences through Shell III/IV if the mobs you fight use it.

you should 'expect' 10k-13k/hr from even a mediocre tp burn, going much beyond this has more to do with the puller and camp availability than with the healer, since you will be able to manage your mp to never run out. consider trying to avoid pt's that are setup with both brd or cor, rdm and you, they'll tend to be a little less efficient than bard / cor + whm + 4 melee (or bard / cor x2 + whm + 3 melee etc).

the two most important spells are haste and dia II.

[Omniblast]

Re: Endgame exp / merit parties for WHM

I was in the past 5 burn parties as whm.

You need to have Nyzul Isle staging point unlocked. Head to Alzadaal Undersea Ruins. Once there you need to go to Bhaflau Thickets to fight Greater Colibri. These things get chomped so easily by 4 nin, 1 rdm with dia 3, and 1 whm.

WHM just cast haste, and cure. It's too easy.

[Raydeus]

Re: Endgame exp / merit parties for WHM

consider trying to avoid pt's that are setup with both brd or cor, rdm and you, they'll tend to be a little less efficient than bard / cor + whm + 4 melee (or bard / cor x2 + whm + 3 melee etc).

I'm interested in this part, mainly because the best Merits I get are in fact with a BRD+RDM+WHM+NIN+2DD party (have never tried this kinda setup with a PLD tank sadly).

The lowest xp/hr I get with that setup is 18k and up to 25k+ an hour without really pushing ourselves or having to struggle with casting times and stuff (don't know the exact amounts of xp but I usually get 3 merits before the second Protect wears off).

The only limiter here is that sometimes we simply run out of mobs even in a big area.


So my question would be:

What's the amount of xp you get from in a 4DD setup and where do you xp? I wanna know because if there's a way I can get merits even faster then (I'm interested.)

[Hankthetank]

Re: Endgame exp / merit parties for WHM

I prefer a 3 mage 3 melee setup and my best XP parties where all setup this way.

My ideal party is Whm/Brd/Rdm 3x DDs. I've had some rediculous chains with this setup. 3 competant melee can kill anything fast enough to maintain a chain, and having a whm to handle hastes and cures means the Rdm can help pull and sleep.

The RDM helping the bard pull/sleep means the Bard will have an easier time keeping songs up on your melee at all times. Between the two there will always be a mob at camp and chains are practiclly never ending. Never mind the added bonus of peace of mind that comes with a WHM. A full mage line up makes a party practically invincible and MP becomes pratically non issue.

I've seen an amazing Rdm & Brd team that kept 2-3 ,mobs slept at the camp at all times. The melee never pu their weapons away. Having a WHM to handle cures and haste is what allowed the Rdm & Brd to focus on keeping the melee "fed" without having to worry about keeping the melee alive.

The best parties are going to be made of friends and LS members, stick with it, you'll eventually find a good core of competant people to xp/merit with. Until then XP/merit parties are really a crap shoot depend on the quality of the members you pick up. Remeber the good ones and invite them the next time you XP, eventually you'll never have to seek or even look to see who is seeking, you'll just check your friend list and go from there.

Don't let anyone convince you that it's having a WHM that is slowing your XP party down. If anything is slowing you down it's needing four melee to do the job of three.

Sincerely,
Hankthetank

*Edit*

The lowest xp/hr I get with that setup is 18k and up to 25k+ an hour without really pushing ourselves or having to struggle with casting times and stuff (don't know the exact amounts of xp but I usually get 3 merits before the second Protect wears off).

You posted as I was typing my post, so I am editing my post to respond. Truthfully if you are already hitting that XP mark, 4 melee is not going to increase your XP/Hour. If anything it might hamper you.

1. Buffs are generally down more often due to the increased workload on the two remaining mages
2. Difficulty in keeping a mob at camp at all times. Bard songs are long and mobs can go from full to dead in 15 seconds if all the melee happen to have TP at the same time. In this case eithr the buffs drop or the pull is delayed.
3. Even if none of the above happen and every is rolling perfectly, then you will probably end up killing mobs faster than they can repop even in a large zone, a problem you seem to already be having with just 3 melee.

In my experiance the only time a 4 melee setup will net better XP than a 3 melee setup is when your exsisting three melee cannot kill the mobs fast enough to mantain the chain.

[Raydeus]

Re: Endgame exp / merit parties for WHM

Yep, that's pretty much what I think about it.

But if there's a chance I could make more xp/hr with a 4DD setup it would be worth listening to it.

[Alshandra]

Re: Endgame exp / merit parties for WHM

My favourite merit set up is WHM (me) BRD RDM NIN NIN WAR fighting Mamool Ja and Puks outside Mamool Ja Staging Point. I love the flexibility different camps offer, but I find this combination to be the most fun and effective for myself.

I hate colibri, I get so bored. After you haste everyone and throw out the odd cure or regen, I hate not being able to throw a Banish at the mob.

I can't say in my whole WHM career, have I ever had difficulty finding a party. Generally, I don't join pick up parties, I either merit with my LS or form my own party with the job combinations I prefer. I don't really agree with the statement that WHMs are not popular for exp/merit parties. This is only from my experience though.

I can see how you would be frustrated though with having difficulty finding parties, I'm having problems on BLM at the moment, currently Lv.47... No one likes BLMs any more now that everyone prefers to rape Colibri from Lv.55 onwards.

I've tried soloing but I find it a bit boring unless my friend duo's his RDM with me. The last few levels I have actually gotten through the capped Promyvion ENMs the last couple weeks. I really hate LFG... I spent two and a half hours crafting while seeking last week on BLM.. It was good for my Clothcraft but not so good for my BLM.

/sigh.

Not sure I you think any of this relates to your original post, but it was just a few thoughts I had after reading your entry.

Hang in there, WHM is a really great job and is a lot of fun, and I find it very rewarding personally. Good luck!

[Fliegar]

Re: Endgame exp / merit parties for WHM

Before I read any further, what exactly is a TP party? I never got high enough to know what a manaburn party was, and I doubt I'll get into a TP party as a Dragoon. Could anyone fill me in?

[Alshandra]

Re: Endgame exp / merit parties for WHM

Generally a TP party is DD heavy, and everyone fires off their Weapon Skills when ever they can, and don't really Skillchain at all. That's my understanding of it. Although I'm just a WHM, so not sure if I know if thats 100% correct.

Manaburn parties, on the other hand, consist of a Refresher and a handful of BLMs. They nuke it til its dead, before anyone can take any serious damage. I've never been in one, but that is my understanding of it.

Hope this helps ^^

[Necropolis]

Re: Endgame exp / merit parties for WHM

Every party for me is different, and I go to learn and hone my skills. I've been in parties that were 5 DD and me (WHM), 4DD 2 mages, 3DD and 3 Mages. I've gotten decent to great exp in all of them and enjoy them all.

Personnaly I love a brd/cor, rdm, whm setup in my party. With Nobles, sanction, ballad/evoker's roll and refresh I'm getting back 8+mp/tick and don't have to rest a great deal. I can most times handle a full haste cycle and do 99% of the curing/statis removal. This lets the rdm go /blm and nuke/enfeeble more. I love having a merited sam along as well. One party in particular the sam would give TP to the bard to skill chain, rdm MB it, and the bard go back to pulling. Was fun and a change from the norm.

I think it's all a matter of "do you get lucky with who you pick". I personally find a lot of wars, rdm, brds that only level jobs for merits don't put a lot into it. This isn't to say all or even most are that way, but I find too many of them don't care. Once you get to meriting a lot of parties slack a little, hate bounces around, and people don't focus like they do when leveling a job. That doesn't bother me, save your brain power for gods, dyna and other events. But if you are devoting time to leveling/meriting, at least try to play your role decently.

As for leveling up to 75 from where you are now, I'd say if you find yourself in a traditional party, and only making average exp, try some of the older exp areas. Ulegraud Range (sp?), Moon, Ro Moeve (sp?) and a lot of those type zone are empty. And If I find myself in a non-TP burn, I urge them to forgoe the exp bonus of sanction, and grab signet. It's a nice change of pace from killing the same mobs over and over again. And those older zones really love a skillchain+MB combo, making it worth wild to invite that BLM that's been seeking for 3 weeks without an invite.

My most enjoyable parties on the road to 75 were the ones where we didn't kill the same exact mob over and over for 5 hours straight. But the ones where we are constantly trying to get Doom off of us, or trying to stun a nasty AoE move. And I believe it made me a better whm for it. I'm by no means the best, but compared to some I've partied with on other jobs, I'd have to pat myself on the back and say I'm a hair bit better than them.

My favorite aspect of this game is it's flexability. Despite how people try to fit everything into nice neat roles, don't be afraid to think outside thier little box and have fun doing it.