Ok last stupid question.

[Antmf]

Hey all, I am about a week-2 week old player in FFXI and am tossed between a whm and rdm. I like both classes and due to the fact this is a group/party game I like supporting my party. Now, I know I will eventually lvl both but for right now I want to get one to atleast 30 before I start lvling a sub. So can anyone tell me the pros and cons of a whm and why a whm would be a better choice in a party over a rdm? And how is the whm surviveability as opposed to the rdm? Is a whm wanted more in a party?Is the whm enfeebling skills that bad as opposed to rdm? Can whm heal that much better too? I know whm get status cures which are nice ( real nice) they also get ports which is a big time saver but do they have the tools to survive hate from a mob or the surviveability in Ballista? I believe a rdm has a lot more versatility and surviveability but I am a noob so don't know what the end game is like for either of them hence the reason for my question above. I know this may be a redundant question but if anyone can help me so I can make a descision it would be more then greatly appreciated. Thanks for all who answer.

[Wise Donkey]

Re: Ok last stupid question.

I want to get one to atleast 30 before I start lvling a sub.

Bad idea. Get your SJ Quest done at 18. A good path to take would be WHM to 18, get SJ Quest done, then RDM/WHM to 30-ish.

[Antmf]

Re: Ok last stupid question.

So you mean take whm to lvl 18 then do subjob quest them lvl rdm to 30 and keep whm as a sub them lvl whm to 60?

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Ok last stupid question.

Hey all, I am about a week-2 week old player in FFXI and am tossed between a whm and rdm.

Start looking for answers here, first. Don't even read past this sentence without checking out that link.

Afterwards, if you want, you can find additional info on Red Mage, but I don't have one for White Mage specifically. Browse in the White Mage forums, and make good use of the FFXIclopedia.

don't know what the end game is like for either of them hence the reason for my question above.

Don't even worry about end game, yet. The Lv.32 spell Erase is 38k-45k Gil or so on my server--can you afford that? You would need this spell as WHM32, and likely as a RDM64/WHM32, too. Once you can say "45k is no problem", then you can worry about stuff above Lv.32. >_>;

I know this may be a redundant question but if anyone can help me so I can make a descision it would be more then greatly appreciated. Thanks for all who answer.

You're better off attempting to research more on your own first, so you can ask questions more specific to your circumstance and the jobs instead of the general "what is this like and what is that like?"

Try using the search function, and look through stickied posts in various parts of the Dreams in Vana'diel forums.

[Wise Donkey]

Re: Ok last stupid question.

So you mean take whm to lvl 18 then do subjob quest them lvl rdm to 30 and keep whm as a sub them lvl whm to 60?

What you do past 30 is up to you. Heck what you do after your SJ Quest is up to you, I just HIGHLY recommend you get your SJ Quest done as soon as it is available to you. The reason is that you will have an incredibly hard time getting into a Exp Party outside of Valkurm Dunes if you do not have a SJ.

Whatever job you do choose, get your SJ Quest done at 18 and always have a properly leveled SJ.

[Antmf]

Re: Ok last stupid question.

Wow very nice link. Helps a lot. Think betwen port spells and being able to solo for the port scrolls I will go whm to 18 then sub blm or rdm. Although rdm I hear is very exp but I will see what happens. I like the fact whm are very mobile which I didnt think of before until I read that guide under the link above. Thanks again very nice response...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Ok last stupid question.

Subjobs are what adds flexibility to you main job and part of what makes RDM so versitle is the fact they and combine more subjobs to thier main jobs than most jobs would. Some of them are for EXP purposes, some solo, some endgame and some for PvP.

RDM:

• /WHM is, at heart, the best way to back up RDM's curative abilites
• /BLM grants Magic attack bonus for nukes, extra enfeebles and Drain and Aspir. Also handy to have BLM's escape spell to get your PT out of a jam.
• /NIN allows RDM to dual wield sword and use Ninjutsu magic, this is mostly for solo, some BCNMs, not really smiled up in EXP, though. Good for PvP
• /DRK is pretty straight forward, this is sub for the Stun ability DRK gets at 37, RDM will use their two hour ability, Chainspell, with Stun to repeatedly stall or stop very deadly mob attacks or abilities. Also nice for PvP as DRK can grant other abilities, though the attack boosts pale to what /WAR would offer.
• /BLU - another solo sub, Defense Boost from Cocoon is nice and quite signifigant, it also grats a few variant Stun and Dispel spells, which are a bit weaker than Stun, but still nice if unresisted. In EXP PT, not much it can offer over /WHM or existing RDM spells.
• /WAR - This one is mostly PvP. It grants Double Attack, boosts to attack and defense, and even larger offensive and defensive abilities, through Berserk, Warcry and Defender. It can be used to tank in a PT that takes on weaker mobs, but difficult to reccomend on harder ones. This isn't a role RDM is expected to fill.
• /BRD is another fringe subjob, mostly for the benefit of using BRD's Ballad as a means to add more MP recovery in parties that are heavy on MP users. There are those that claim Finale and Elegy are effective, but I've only seen this to be the case on weaker EXP mobs.
• /SMN is for maxing out your MP potential, which may or may not be of benefit to RDM's HP/MP Convert ability. Its commonly used for tanking PTs at endgame, as Garuda and Titan provide AoE Blink and Stoneskin.

So to tap RDM's fullest potential throughout the game, there's a lot of subjobs to level and possibly a few I missed. In general for EXP and Endgame, /WHM, /BLM and /DRK are expected of a RDM. /NIN and /DRK, again, best for solo. Others are entirely optional.

While some or these subjobs clearly favor RDM's melee aspect, RDM is generally considered a backline character like WHM, so use melee subjobs with caution and consider what would be better for the PT. Some PTs might be OK with a RDM meleeing in PT, most others would not. And at higher levels, RDM gets great benefit from useing staves for enfeebles and nukes, which is problematic for RDMs interested in swordplay.

WHM:

• /BLM is for Aspir to regain MP and a small boost to MP, and like RDM, it grants Escape for critical situations. Nuking ability isn't WHMs forte, so /BLM nukes feel weaker than from main job. RDM's nukes are a bit stronger since they gain them from thier main job
• /SMN is one of the most desirable subs for WHM, granting them much more MP to Cure, do status removal and use Avatars for their support abilities. Pretty much the best form of WHM is WHM/SMN. Also used for endgame tank PTs.
• /BRD is pretty much for MP recovery when no RDM, BRD or COR can be found.
• /THF is for specialized PTs against skeletons, which are rare, but fun. WHM finally gets to melee here.
• /NIN - see THF, also nice for soloing. Gives WHM another opportunity for fun.

/BLM and /SMN are really the only subjobs expected of WHM. But since WHMs aren't usually welcome on the frontlines in PTs, its nice to have one the last two so you can have some melee enjoyment elsewhere. WHM soloing doesn't really become as viable as RDMs until later on, though.

[Lasareth]

Re: Ok last stupid question.

I wouldn't say that aspir is any part of the reason for choosing a blm sub. Since we have no native dark skill, our aspirs are horrible (if they are unresisted, they still drain a pitiful amount of mp).

The biggest reason for choosing blm sub is conserve MP, a job trait that effectively increases our MP pool. Aspir is just a bonus if we can get it to stick unresisted.

Elemental seal + sleep/sleepga is also really helpful if the party is in a tight situation and needs a moment to recuperate.

At low levels, smn is probably on par with blm. What makes smn unique is the auto refresh ability and Garuda's blinkra and Titan's Stoneskinra spells at higher levels. I'd say, though, that until you have access to those, blm is a better choice.

Someone in my linkshell went WHM/THF once to a caedarva pt, and used SA+Spirit taker to keep mp constant while doing a decent amount of damage. I thought it was a pretty unique approach to a nonstandard subjob, and it seemed to work OK.

[Amele]

Re: Ok last stupid question.

Titan's Stoneskin effect (Earthen Ward) is not available to whm/smn (above cap) the only real buff used by whm/smn is aerial armor in a paladin tank or blackmage party.
quick rundown (ignoring abilities that are immaterial in party situations)

Summoner

• Max mp approximately 39 mp more than /blm (+5-20 more if you magician's earring over one of your other mp earrings)
• Auto-refresh of 20mp/min (more on this in a bit)
• Aerial Armor
• Pet for pulling in unusual situations.

Blackmage

• Tractor
• Escape
• Elemental Seal
• Sleep / Sleepga
• Conserve MP (more on this in a minute)

comparing the lists, they look pretty comparable: slightly more mp and slightly stronger, if fewer, abilities in whm/smn - balanced by better crowd control and mobility (you'll learn to appreciate mobility) in whm/blm.
The big deal with whitemage though, is mp efficiency. auto-refresh wins hands down here right? I'll run the numbers.
(there should be a good thread on this somewhere in the FFXIO blackmage forums, I'm not going to track it down since I'm currently being filtered whenever I post a link anyway.. despite having joined in 2004 o.o) summarized: the activation rate on conserve mp works out to save 7% of your gross mp usage long term.
this means that for auto-refresh and conserve mp to have equal function (restoring the same amount of mp) you must spend enough mp in one minute for 7% to equal 20mp.
this happens to be 286mp/min.
this is alot at lower levels (in fact, at 50 when you first get auto-refresh, we're probably talking about 1/3 of your entire mp pool) but let's look at in spells:
it is: 6.2 Cure III's (1 every 9 seconds)
it is: 7.15 Hastes
it is: 3.25 Cure IV's
it is: 4.4 Regen III's
etc. now. in a typical merit, I'll cast two hastes, two regen III's, a regen II, a Flash, two Dia II's and at least one Cure III every minute. this is approximately 375mp/minute minimum long term conserve mp will save an average of: 26.25 mp/minute minimum in this situation. which means I will overtake the mp pool bonus of whm/smn after 6 minutes and 15 seconds of casting.
and dynamis, limbus, hnm, are even more demanding on your mp pool than this. (that said, in dynamis, limbus, and hnm, you'll often need to sub smn anyway for aerial armor)
basically: have both ready, but don't sub /smn just for mp efficiency unless you know you will be casting rarely (questing, skillup, and some farming camps come to mind)