Are status cures ever unsuccessful?

[Nazo]

When casting a -na spell the message says Nazo successfully removes (target's) (malstatus) or Erase's variant. Is there ever a situation where the spell is unsuccessful? I seem to recall seeing this with the effect that causes the death timer (doom is it? I can't remember the name but it needs holy water to remove and cursna sometimes works) but not with regular status effects.
Shouldn't the success rate be related to the healer's healing skill vs. the offensive caster's magic skill? It would make sense to me that a lvl 37 /whm might be unsuccessful removing an effect cast by a lvl 75 mob due to the imbalance of skills involved.

[Icemage]

Re: Are status cures ever unsuccessful?

Cursna is the only status removal spell that can normally fail to take effect, and only when used on a Doomed player (50% chance of success).


Icemage

[Nazo]

Re: Are status cures ever unsuccessful?

That's what I thought.

So how would people think about my suggestion of making success related to healing skill? It seems a fairly useless stat at the moment and I don't see why a blm / whm or rdm / whm should be as effective at healing as a whm. Rdm would still be reasonably effective as they have a natural ability but jobs such as smn and blm would be pretty much limited to curing only making 'pure' whm stand out a bit more.
I was going to post this in the ask SE questions forum but as the format for that seems to be mostly suggestion followed by reasons why the suggestion is rubbish I'd gather some info and thoughts first.

[Olorin401]

Re: Are status cures ever unsuccessful?

Cursna is the only status removal spell that can normally fail to take effect, and only when used on a Doomed player (50% chance of success).
Icemage

That's the only -na spell that I've seen fail to work. Erase has failed for me when trying to remove Amnesia many times, but I imagine that only means it has to wear off naturally.

[Icemage]

Re: Are status cures ever unsuccessful?

That's the only -na spell that I've seen fail to work. Erase has failed for me when trying to remove Amnesia many times, but I imagine that only means it has to wear off naturally.

There's a few cases where spells simply can't remove some effects.

No spell can remove Amnesia (Job abilities locked) or Terror (stun on steroids).

In addition, Quiescence (a WS used by Promathia) is a Silence effect that cannot be removed with Silena (or echo drops, or any other effect, for that matter).


Icemage

[Irisjir Callard]

Re: Are status cures ever unsuccessful?

Quiescence (a WS used by Promathia) is a Silence effect that cannot be removed with Silena (or echo drops, or any other effect, for that matter).


Icemage

I am very very afraid now


I've had Poisona and Parylana go splat a time or two, but that was due to overzealous macroing. I'd fire off the -na as the monster used the weaponskill (not necessarily after it hit). Very frustrating to bang out parylana and the next thing you see is paralysis hitting. On the other hand, not the game's fault and I wouldn't suggest changing anything to remove that aspect of human error.

But I do agree, it seems a little peculiar that the same level 10ish whitemage who poisonas herself after crawler battles can peel off heinous poison II cast by a level 80+ ghost NM in fei-yin.

At least with Poison and Poison II, there ought to be a chance for Poisona not to take effect across a very wide level gap.

On the other hand, though, if they muddle up parylana or silena, imagien what's going to happen in Labrynth of Onzozo. Whether it effects EXP play or not, people are going to be scared to party there, and it'll be a pity because LoO was one of my all-time favorite party locations.

[klvino]

Re: Are status cures ever unsuccessful?

Seen Poisona fail when going /whm and trying to remove a strong poison effect from a mobs TP move.

Don't you receive skillups on Healing skill when using status cures? If it's yes, then it's already tied to the healing skill trait. How a player's healing skill affects it may still be undetermined.

[Olorin401]

Re: Are status cures ever unsuccessful?

I am very very afraid now

Yer tellin me brother! {/panic}

[Icemage]

Re: Are status cures ever unsuccessful?

Seen Poisona fail when going /whm and trying to remove a strong poison effect from a mobs TP move.

I've never had that happen on any job (WHM, RDM/WHM, BRD/WHM, BLM/WHM).

Don't you receive skillups on Healing skill when using status cures? If it's yes, then it's already tied to the healing skill trait. How a player's healing skill affects it may still be undetermined.

Status cures are indeed considered Healing Magic, and they do have a chance to raise your skill if you successfully remove an effect with one. As far as potency, aside from Cursna vs. Doom, all status cures always work in the cases they're supposed to.


Icemage

[Aralays]

Re: Are status cures ever unsuccessful?

I'm pretty sure one time my Poisona didn't work when the Delver in Promyvion-Mea used Promyvion Brume on me.

[Icemage]

Re: Are status cures ever unsuccessful?

I'm pretty sure one time my Poisona didn't work when the Delver in Promyvion-Mea used Promyvion Brume on me.

I've done that fight several times, as well as the similar enemies in Promyvion-Vahzl as well as in the Pulling The Plug ENM. Poisona has never failed. Maybe someone else used Poisona on you first before your spell landed.


Icemage

[Taskmage]

Re: Are status cures ever unsuccessful?

I'm fairly certain I've had Paralyna fail once. It was in a party that was hunting Coeurl in Onzozo waaay earlier than they should have, as rdm/whm with Healing Magic skill many levels behind. Mob hit the tank with Blaster, I cast Paralyna, and it didn't stick. A second cast took care of it. I suppose it's possible that I started casting too early and the status hadn't officially landed when my spell did; I don't remember the timing that clearly.

At any rate, even if you believe that a -na spell failing isn't impossible, it is at least incredibly improbable, as I've only ever had it happen once and Icemage has never seen it happen after 200+ levels of bringing -nas to parties.

[Icemage]

Re: Are status cures ever unsuccessful?

I'm fairly certain I've had Paralyna fail once. It was in a party that was hunting Coeurl in Onzozo waaay earlier than they should have, as rdm/whm with Healing Magic skill many levels behind. Mob hit the tank with Blaster, I cast Paralyna, and it didn't stick. A second cast took care of it. I suppose it's possible that I started casting too early and the status hadn't officially landed when my spell did; I don't remember the timing that clearly.

At any rate, even if you believe that a -na spell failing isn't impossible, it is at least incredibly improbable, as I've only ever had it happen once and Icemage has never seen it happen after 200+ levels of bringing -nas to parties.

RDM/WHM in Onzozo has 3 Fast Cast traits (2 natural + AF hat), added to the already-fast Paralyna. If you pulled the trigger really early on the spell you may have finished casting before the Paralyze effect from the Coeurl's Blaster WS took effect.

Bear in mind that the battle log is not totally chronological, so you might even see

"The Torama uses Blaster."
"So-and-so is paralyzed."
"Your Paralyna has no effect."

...in your chat log, even though you actually finished casting first.


Icemage

[Shanisasha]

Re: Are status cures ever unsuccessful?

I'll second the "if your -na didn't work, you cast too fast" theory. Had it happen in LoO a few times.

I do think it's not necessarily that -na spells fail to take effect, but that there are some status effects that cannot be removed by -na spells easily. Doom being one of them, in which I usually can cast 2 cursnas (which has a v. long recast) and usually players in my party will have spammed 3-4 holy waters in that time. Against Doom, I'm an advocate of holy water spam.

Amnesia and terror are just things to learn to live with. No -na, no erase on them. Relatively short duration though.

As for Promethia....well, you'd expect he'd have a few nasties up his sleeve, right?

[klvino]

Re: Are status cures ever unsuccessful?

I've never had that happen on any job (WHM, RDM/WHM, BRD/WHM, BLM/WHM).
Icemage

Then pat yourself on the back. It happens. And no, it wasn't because I cast Poisona too early. And no, it wasn't because someone else cured me of Poisona first. Once the Poisona fails to cure the high lvl poison, I just use an antidote to save the mp to cure myself back the hp I lost from the degen.