Reducing hate

[Szkol]

I'm currently leveling my WHM in Valkurm Dunes so I'll have a solid sub for my RDM when I go to Qufim. I find myself drawing a good amount of hate and having some very close calls with death as a result. I'm not curing excessibley I don't think; I always try to keep the tank's HP b/w 40% and 80% full throughout the fight so I don't cure too much. All other PT members just get cures as needed, which is not nearly as much as the main tank. I don't cast offensive magic, or if I do it's only to deal a finishing blow to the mob, or to cast Paralyze at the beginning of the fight. Sometimes I find myself actually losing attention mid-fight because I do so little casting. Yet somehow, I continue to draw hate.

Is this the result of poor tanking, or is there something I'm doing wrong? I realize it's the dunes, so a lot of folks are still really new, especially to the PT scene. I don't blame tanks for being bad if they are, because they have to learn somewhere... I'm just wondering if I'm doing something incorrectly, so that I can change my style if I need to. If it's just the tanks not being able to keep hate, then I won't worry about it.

Thanks!

[Tirrock]

Re: Reducing hate

If you're using cure II often, that'd be the reason. It's very likely you got bad tanks though. Many people don't have a clue on how to tank at that level.

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: Reducing hate

I wouldn't go so far as to say bad tanks. The fact of the matter is that at that level, the tanks don't have all of thier Hate-Control tools. Really, the only thing available to most tanks in abundance is Provoke (and Cure/II from PLD - which they can only cast minally).

Ninjas later on get tools like thier enfeeb wheel, and PLDs get higher level cures, flash, and curaga.

Meanwhile, you don't have all of your hate mitigation tools, either. Haste on the tank, for example. Regen/II/III to cure without generating hate, as well as pieces of armor like Crow that become available at level 50ish. To top it off, if you healing is not capped, you aren't able to be as efficient with your MP.

One thing to remember is that not everyone has to be full at the end of every battle. In fact, ending a battle with everyone in the yellow allows for the use of a quick curaga (and divine seal every ten mintues - which in an XP party can add up quickly over time in terms of MP conservation).

If you are using +MP foods or +MND foods, try switching to Ginger (or Wizard if you can afford them) or even Imperial Coffee +1 if you prefer 3hr foods. If you have cooking high enough conser taking a stack of pinaples or two and some water crystals out into the field. If you can manage to arange things so that most of your large curing is done between battles, you might see some changes in hate control.

Hope that helps!

[DakAttack]

Re: Reducing hate

It's a combination of poor armor defense, lack of hate tools, and lack of healers. Most players aren't stacking up on defense, or aren't keeping their armor up to date, and they don't have a lot of ways to hold hate other than damage and Provoke. If you don't have a Red Mage or Summoner with you to help heal, you could look into that as well.

[Icemage]

Re: Reducing hate

Icemage's rules of surviving the Dunes as a healer:

Hint #1: Selbina is right there. Go visit the vendor near the docks in Selbina and buy several stacks of Selbina milk and hand them to your tanks and anyone else you expect to take damage. I'm dead serious here. The milk costs ~50-60 gil each depending on fame, and will greatly reduce downtime (as well as your accumulated hate since that's HP you won't have to heal).

Hint #2: Big cures are bad. Very bad. Don't use Cure II except in dire emergencies. At that level, it's both ruthlessly inefficient, and generates a hate spike all out of proportion to its level. Ditto for Curaga. If the monster isn't going to die within the next 10-15 seconds, spam Cure I for all it's worth if you must but avoid doing anything else.

Hint #3: -Enmity is your friend. The Halloween event headpiece, Pumpkin Head, has a visible Enmity -1 rating (ok, so it's not necessarily stylish, but it beats dying :D ). Failing that, mushroom foods are good for your survival rate. Roast mushrooms can be purchased in Kazham for something like 4000 gil for a stack of 12, and have a hidden Enmity -1 along with a visible +10mp, +3MND and +2mp recovered while healing. The optimal food, if you want to splurge, is mushroom stew, with a hefty +40mp, +4MND, -4 Enmity, and +4mp recovered while healing.

Hint #4: Don't heal yourself in battle. I cannot stress this enough. I don't know how many healers I've seen who panic and start casting Cure on themselves when they take damage. You're already getting hit because the monster is mad at you; casting Cure on yourself will only make it more annoyed and provoke it into attacking you even more. When you are attacked in a party at low levels do not panic, do not run, and do not cast Cures on yourself. The act of getting hit lowers your enmity rating, and the monster "should" lose interest and go back to hitting someone else.


Icemage

[kuu]

Re: Reducing hate

Icemage's rules of surviving the Dunes as a healer:

Hint #4: Don't heal yourself in battle. I cannot stress this enough. I don't know how many healers I've seen who panic and start casting Cure on themselves when they take damage. You're already getting hit because the monster is mad at you; casting Cure on yourself will only make it more annoyed and provoke it into attacking you even more. When you are attacked in a party at low levels do not panic, do not run, and do not cast Cures on yourself. The act of getting hit lowers your enmity rating, and the monster "should" lose interest and go back to hitting someone else.


Icemage

Should add, to point of stupidity sticker on that rule. AoE/2nd slap can still kill. Panic is one thing, but one has to remember a dead healer heals no members.

For dunes, always the best rule to loose enmity, is to make sure you can take the hit long enough for what you need to do.

Here's to whms wearing mining gears in dune, defense matters.

[PTT]

Re: Reducing hate

This won't help you immediately, but when you get around to level 25 in Qufim, you might think about questing about in Carpenter's Landing for the Mycophile Cuffs.

http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/7023

They're actually quite easy to get. You go to this one ??? point in Carpenter's Landing (Click the NM name on that page to see all the info you need), and you trade one each of Danceshroom, Woozyshroom, and Sleepshroom, which spawns the monster. Kill it, and boom.

The NM, according to this page is level 35, so bring some friends, or switch to a higher job if you can.

Negative 2 enmity, +2 MND, +1 INT, all very nice on a hand piece. Couple this with the Negative-Enmity Pumpkin Head, and you have -3 enmity at level 25, which is most nice!

[Aeni]

Re: Reducing hate

When I was WHM in Dunes, I didn't have problems with enmity. I think Ice Mage has some sound advice and Kuu is right, don't go naked just because you think all you're going to do is be on the backline. Where possible, gear up defensively.

I never used Cure II at all unless it's in extreme emergency situations. In fact, I spam Cure I mostly until about level 30sh, when the proportion of damage on the tank's HP goes up dramatically so that Cure II is more efficient than Cure I spam. Ditto for Cure III, you won't really use it until your 50s (Actually, you shouldn't be by this point since only tanks should be NINs and PLDs 99% of the time and good ones don't require Cure III spam)

You have to understand what you're doing as a healer and you have to watch both your mp pool, the fight itself and how much hate you're accumulating. At very low levels, you can accumulate a ton of hate very quickly.

Here's an example of the first two:

Cure I - 8 mp cost - heals for up to 33 HP (More with +cure potency)
Cure II - 24 mp cost - heals for up to 105 HP (More with +cure potency)

In the beginning, after you first obtain a new cure spell, your potency isn't very good. I believe it's like 50~60 hp for Cure II when you first get it. This means you are expending 8 more mp to save a few seconds and lose a potential of about 40 hp curing. That to me is terribly inefficient. Max HP of a tank at level 10 is between 200 and 300 hp. Each Cure I returns more than 10% of a tank's HP. A Cure II is overkill and you're bleeding mp.

This kind of thinking carries on all the way to end-game. MP conservation is a must for lengthy fights. I've been in PTs where the WHM gets lazy and tosses a Cure V that cures for 275 HP. You could easily do that much with a single Cure III if you're maxed on stats and good gear and possibly save oodles of MP in the process.