Take a stand for politeness!

[Celeal]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

I think it is situational, it depends on how long the sneak + invisible is needed. For example, level 45 party is going to Quicksand Cave via Teleport. In this case, it is more cost efficient to cast sneak at the Teleport Crystal, because you only need sneak for about 10 seconds to avoid aggro from the ants while exiting that Teleport Crystal. However, in the place like Kuftal Tunnel, it is safer and more efficient to use slient oil because it may take 3 to 4 minutes to reach the camp or running across the zone.

In the case stated from OP (Party in Kuftal Tunnel), it is reasonable for party members to bring their own silent oil and powder.

[Vaigrant]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

I can honestly say I have never seen, experianced or heard of this before. Ive heard of people viciously asking for Teleports as if it was a Whms sole purpose to exist in-game, or get mad when they refuse a PL(Which I wont even bring up my stance on that).

But to say the Whm has to S/I is kinda BS if you ask me, there are no givens, and you have to learn to be able to fend for yourself. If you always have to havea Whm glued to your ass to walk through a zone because your too cheap to buy either the Spells themselves or the Meds for it your not gonna get far.

Why not say that since a Thf Steals the Party gets to lot on the item as well? I mean it was Earned while in the Party was it not, so it should be the Thfs job to steal items for them as well right, or how about Mug, he should have to give that to the PT since its his ability produced it, it must be part of his job.

Dont mistake perks with givens, and honestly asking isnt that hard and gripping about how its "Their Job" to do it like a machine is rediculous.

[dejey]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

Hold on, it's the WHM's (or anyone subbing WHM) job to help Sneak/Invis the party to the camp. It's not an extra task that we fancy on people, it's expected of us. Asking people in your party to ask for Sneak/Invis is like asking them to ask politely for a teleport to the nearest telepoint when the party is first formed. It should be a natural reaction - when you arrive at a zone with aggro, you start Sneak/Invising the people who can't do it by themselves in the same manner that you start tossing Cures at a fellow PT member when their HP goes down. There's no real call for 100% politeness and formailty because it's expected of you.
I do however agree that party members should tell people when Sneak/Invis starts to wear off because it's annoying as hell to clean up the mess that can result sometimes.
I'm sorry, but if you think that these are extras and don't come with the job description then you haven't quite grasped the complete role of WHM in this game. It's like saying that melee only have to beat the crap out of the enemy and that WS's and skillchains are only executed under certain circumstances for certain people.
We definitely are not the doormats of the world, but asking people to suck up to you in order to get vital transportation requirements is just arrogant. Perhaps BRD should start complaining that the puller who accidentally linked the mob didn't ask nicely for the link to be slept? Or holding great big thank you parades for NINs who use ninjutsu other than Utsusemi?

you are right that we shoudl sneak/invis people but you cant tell me you have nto seen over 10000 people in pts with you that as you hit the zone "OMG SNEAK IS GOING OFF SAVE ME" they get lost die w/e because they cant buy oils/powders i find it sad that more then 50% the time ill have oils and others who cant sneak themself dont. i dont get mad if i am right there but i wont even cast sneak onymself once i am inside the zone its just not safe. oils/powders> spells.

i been killed to many times becuase of people not haveing oils or w/e. when i go to sky if i forget oils i buy them at 4.5k a pop from the person ya it sucks but it can save a lot of time exp and not get people pissed at you.

if you dont have oils BUY SOME!

[BurningPanther]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

Ok.
I gave myself a good 36 hours to calm down after the latest infringement on my personal moral standards as pertains to Sneak and Invis.
But at this point, what used to be a small damp spot of irritation on the floor of my mind has become a widespread, roiling flood of enraged fury.
For the love of all that is holy, whitemages are not sneak-invisible dispensers for the worlds assholes.
I have no problem S/I'ing party members, so long as they ask nicely. I don't take vicarious pleasure from it, but it's not unpleasant.
But when six people including the Redmage all line up at the entrance to an agro area and all stare at me expectantly, I'm prone to stare right back.
You expect sneak and invis.
I expect to hear you ask me for them if you need them. I expect to be treated like a human being, not a trained dog.
If you don't want to ask, there is an Auction House full of magic oil and powder to save you from the "indignity" of saying the words "Can I get a sneak, please?"
I have had this policy ever since Kuftal Tunnel, because parties aggravated me so badly there, expecting me to run back and forth across the zone trying to keep them all sneaked with minimal assistance (IE them not telling me sneak was wearing until they had agro).
This is an incredibly huge pet peeve of mine, and yet it keeps being aggravated. I had a party a few nights ago tell me I ought to be automatically sneaking melees, and they didn't need a whitemage who had to be told minute by minute how to do her job. The only reason I can think of for people to continue to expect the whitemage to S/I as automatically as curing is because other whitemages DO it.
I honestly don't beleive its in the job description, kind of like I don't beleive curing everyone who runs past me with low HP is in my job description, or instantly teleporting everyone literate enough to communicate that they would like a teleport to an unnamed telepoint from an unnamed location.
I believe the job description is to hand out sufficent Cures to keep the party from dying. Everything else I do (haste, buffs, regen, etc etc...) I do from pride in my work.
But I take no pride from being treated like a slave unworthy of two words (both of which are in the auto-translate.)
Bottom line:
I believe it's time for whitemages to take a stand on this issue, and start letting people know we aren't their doormats.

Right on, dude. Right on.

I play RDM(with a WHM sub-and thus main healer-when I have no choice), and run into this issue alot. First, I'm perplexed why any Red Mage should come to you for S/I, and think he should be ashamed of himself for such. A RDM can do that himself, no need for a WHM to save him. I'd just flat out refuse the RDM or WHM that comes begging for S/I if they should already have it at their level, but that's just my opinion.

As for the rest... nothing to say that hasn't already been said.

However, you could just tell them that you never bought those spells. Think I'm joking? I did it once. The lolMelees wised up and went back to Kazham and got themselves Oils and Powders.

Just an idea.

[Mini Neruto]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

Like in {Kazham} when they die and blame it on you because they didnt tell you it was about to wear off?

/shrug.

Ill take a stand. That guy is still bitching at me every time he see's me. (and btw he was a melee character >.>

[Cherryneko]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

For the love of all that is holy, whitemages are not sneak-invisible dispensers for the worlds assholes.

I completely agree with the OP, and in fact, this is a pet peeve of mine. Back when my WHM was in Crawler's Nest, some random melee needed sneak/invis through the Exoray area to get to the secret room. I gave them sneak, then they ran off, as usual. After I sneak/invis myself, their sneak was out and they were standing close to scorpions. They begged for another cast. I ran up to them, cast sneak.. and right after the spell landed on them, I got 3 shotted by a Water Elemental and died. No remorse from the party whatsoever.

Ever since that day, I've refused to babysit melee through zones. I'll give a courtesy spell at the beginning of a zone, then after that, they're on their own. I also reminded melee to bring oils and powders, especially if we were going to sky, or Ro'Maeve, or anywhere with potential magic aggro.

Even as a mage, I always carry a stack of each and use them when needed. God, I hate, HATE, HATE lazy people. Take care of yourselves. Stop being pests.

[Mini Neruto]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

God, I hate, HATE, HATE lazy people. Take care of yourselves. Stop being pests.

Quote of the...year?