Take a stand for politeness!

[Ellipses]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

I see you conveniently left a BRD's role in the party out, but you can't trick me! BRDs can sing, so it's their responsability to entertain the party if if they have down time, it's also their responsbility to sing Jpop/Jrock songs since the game is Japanese.

If only they would stop being so cheap and carry some batteries they could use an electric harp or something...

Oh, like anybody invites Bards to parties anyway.

Just to stay mildly on-topic... I'll happily sneak/invis anyone at the aggro line, even when they don't need it (I'm endlessly amused by giving both sneak and invis to people who ask for them to get to the secret room in CN, then running along to it without either). But I've yet to have a single party where no one other than me brought oils/powders. Unless we've got three mages with sneak and invis, and we go with the buddy system, it's a little unfair to those who came prepared for me to stealth those who didn't. It's equivalent to being the one gimp ass in the party who doesn't use food.

Should you have to ask? Depends. It's kind of frustrating to start casting Sneak on someone and see them pop a Silent Oil at the same time (and it's just as frustrating when I'm the one using the oil if it turns out I didn't have to). We zone in, for all I know you've gone afk for the Loading Data screen and aren't back yet, or are having trouble finding oils in your inventory, or any number of things that mean you just haven't used your oil/powder yet. With any given party member, the odds of them being offended that I'd sneak them when they brought oils are about 50/50, as are the odds of them being offended that I'm not just automatically sneaking everyone and they have to ask.

If you want to make sure you get what you want, communicate. If someone gets huffy at you for doing so, further communication will usually either solve the problem or let you know you don't want them in your party anyway, which is kind of a handy thing to find out before you get to camp.

[Murphie]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

Oh, like anybody invites Bards to parties anyway.

Just to stay mildly on-topic... I'll happily sneak/invis anyone at the aggro line, even when they don't need it (I'm endlessly amused by giving both sneak and invis to people who ask for them to get to the secret room in CN, then running along to it without either). But I've yet to have a single party where no one other than me brought oils/powders. Unless we've got three mages with sneak and invis, and we go with the buddy system, it's a little unfair to those who came prepared for me to stealth those who didn't. It's equivalent to being the one gimp ass in the party who doesn't use food.

Should you have to ask? Depends. It's kind of frustrating to start casting Sneak on someone and see them pop a Silent Oil at the same time (and it's just as frustrating when I'm the one using the oil if it turns out I didn't have to). We zone in, for all I know you've gone afk for the Loading Data screen and aren't back yet, or are having trouble finding oils in your inventory, or any number of things that mean you just haven't used your oil/powder yet. With any given party member, the odds of them being offended that I'd sneak them when they brought oils are about 50/50, as are the odds of them being offended that I'm not just automatically sneaking everyone and they have to ask.

If you want to make sure you get what you want, communicate. If someone gets huffy at you for doing so, further communication will usually either solve the problem or let you know you don't want them in your party anyway, which is kind of a handy thing to find out before you get to camp.

Oh Ellipses, you and your crazy logic. You'll never get anywhere in this game with that kind of mentality.

[Nazo]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

I've never really given it much thought. It costs me nothing except a few mp to cast, if people bring their own oils / powders then great, if not I have no problem with them expecting me to cast it on them. I suppose I do see it as part of my job, the party starts for me once we've got a full complement of members and are ready to set out, from that point I'll do what I can to assist the party and make it smoother.

Sure it would be nice if people asked politely and were more appreciative, but I'm not going to bang my head against the wall trying to force everyone to do so because the only person that's going to suffer for that is me. Better to accept that just like in so many other situations in this game people aren't always going to behave the way you'd like them to, shrug and get on with it.

[Ellipses]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

And is it really a Black Mages job to pull? (That's actually a real question) I mean when would they get time to rest? o.o

Of course not, that was my point. Having a spell or ability in your menu doesn't automatically make it your responsibility. PLD can Cure, but they generally can't main heal a pick-up party effectively. WHM can sneak/invis, but they generally can't get an entire pick-up party safely across an entire zone effectively.

[Lilani]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

The smart and polite thing to do is provide yourself with your own sneak/invis things. However, there will always be the idiots who either "can't afford" them or "zomg forgot!" so you have to provide it for them. Being a red mage, I'm always the first one they look at. However lately I've been refusing, because 1. I dispense mage crack and melee crack, I don't give lazy idiot crack. And 2. There are two kinds of people you buff, the ones who will tell you when it is wearing and find a safe place, and the ones who will wait for it to wear and 5 mobs to be after them before they say "snk gone." -.-;

There will always be idiots in the world, no matter what level. I think the party I had last night takes the cake, at least in the other parties I've had. The setup was RDM (me), NIN, NIN, RNG, THF, BLU. It was a weapon skill/skillchain burn party, which was good concidering we were fighting colibri. I played as WHM, refreshing myself and the BLU when he needed it and hasting the 2 NINs and the THF. It was a bit harder than I thought, especially when the Taru RNG took hate.

Anyways, we get to the tower in Bahflau Thickets and one of the NINs says "I forgot my blink powders." I was thinking he meant his invis powders or something, so I said "well we're here now so you don't need them." He goes on saying he needs them, but we pull some stuff anyways.

While I'm main healing, I notice he's taking a lot of damage. After about 3-4 battles he says "I really need my blink powders." I finally ask him what the heck he's talking about and he says his shihei. The first thing I do is /linkshell ROFL. The second thing I say is /party well go get them. A level 63 NIN that shows up to a party with absolutely no shihei. As a 75NIN in my party said: "disgraceful." And on top of all that, he calls them "blink powders." If shihei were little sacks or something I would understand that, but they are little pieces of origami!

Anyways, as I said before, I'll snk/invis other people if I have no other choice, but I will make sure that they clearly understand that I'm not doing it for them again.

[Shanisasha]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

So if you get invited to a PT we should all ask you politely to teleport? If we dont no exp, if you dont invisi, no exp. Your a whm, get over it. Should a ninja be asked politely to cast Utsusemi, should you ask the blm to MB? Want me to ask the thf to pull every time a monster dies? I dont get why its such a problem, its not like your the only one keeping the party alive, if i have to ask you everytime I need sneak then you can ask me to engage every monster we fight ok?. Also ppl are assholes sometimes. Its just a game. Did posting a rant about how someone treated you on a game make your day just that bit better? Cause this post sure made mine.

If this is what you believe, then WHMs should also be politely asked for Cures, hastes, buffs, bar spells and regens. Please, also call for bene and flash and banish. Then maybe there'll be communication in parties.

Teleporting is usually convened on at the time you decide a camp. Still, I've had party members choose to OP to camp, while I teleported others. So no, it's not like s/i.

If you dont think you need to ask a WHM for sneak or invis because "it's our job" that's fine. Just don't get bitchy when it's assumed you have meds to make it through on your own. Because, so far, the only people that have not asked for sneak in my parties have been those with oils. As a whm, I'll do everything I can to help my party. From experience? Getting 5 people through an aggro zone when none of them have powders/oils is hell and will not work.

Tell you what. Level White mage and get a party through Ifrit's for ZM5. THEN we talk.

[Icemage]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

I'll happily S/I anyone at a zoneline, but once we're in the middle of the zone, party members are on their own to either:

(a) use silent oil/prism powder if their S/I wears
(b) ask me for S/I and make sure that they're in a safe location to cast

I don't consider it my responsibility to make sure other party members get S/I once I've given them the initial boost. Sure, sometimes people forget, and that's ok, but kindly make sure you're in a reasonably safe spot (i.e. not standing next to an elemental) when you ask me to S/I you.


Icemage

[Joon]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

When I'm helping my PT get to camp, I understand completely that it's my job to help S/I my members. I'm often one of the 1st people to zone into a dangerous area, so I can run ahead & S/I people when they get to me.

But when six people including the Redmage all line up at the entrance to an agro area and all stare at me expectantly, I'm prone to stare right back.

If they actually did a /stare emote at you, I see where you're coming from, as I think that shit's just plain insulting & condescending. If they didn't do the emote, then you just need to suck it up. From what you wrote (since that's all I have to go on), that RDM was a lazy ass. One of my pet peeves in a PT on the way to camp is mages who have the required spells and S/I themselves and leave me behind to S/I everybody else; that's just plain selfish. I believe everybody, including melees, have to do their part to get to camp as quickly and as efficiently as possible; I have respect for melees who take the time to come prepared with oils/powders at hand & I have respect for mages who help S/I the PT.

When I'm using a melee job, I always try to ease the mages' loads by bringing my own oils/powders just in case S/I wears off. I had an incident that cost the PT almost 2 hours in wasted time because somebody didn't come prepared when passing through Kuftal Tunnel. Granted, I forgot to cast reraise on myself when I entered the zone, but I just wish that every PT member would have the awareness to save their own ass by being prepared.

[Taruun]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

I don't mind S/I-ing people in my PT.. but once I do that don't run off while I still need to S/I myself. Some areas I don't have maps for and if you want me to S/I you, you better make sure I know where everyone's going or at least wait til I S/I and then target you so I can follow to camp.

[Rainechan]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

Ussually, I can handle a few people in the pt needing sneak and invis, but 6 people is to much. Frankly, each time someone uses a silent oil or powder, it's less stress on the whm. Plus people don't seem to get the concept of recast timer is 10 seconds. 7 with fast cast II

[seq]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

most i hate when i'm playing mage is when melee stops! and starts to stare at me for a sneak or invinsible without asking or even bothering to {Tab key} the most two common words "Sneak can i have it?".
S/Iing is something, but expecting me to automaticly do it while moving to the camp is really annoying,specially when there is 3-4 melee that needs it, i agree with you.
not like carrying Silent oils or Prism powder will leave a melee broke, that's why i always keep a stack of Silent/Prism with me ^^"
btw 1 silent oil is enough to travel through Kufrtal tunnel from the desert zone to the Cape Ter. but 1-3 spells is required to do so.

[Sevv]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

ok i have guided groups thru aggro places and had one person s/i them selves +4 ppl even tho they knew to get it... when it comes down to a mission its annoying hands down.

should whm cast w/o any knowldege nope i would and have just ran out across zone becuase i wasnt asked. now i see no problem in not bringing oils/powders if you ask a mage nicely they should/will if not they coming to raise you then sneak and invis u back across. lol

personally i will only carry oils for the fact i can dodge aggro at times i run out and forget to restock when i just get an invite i check food and go. And if you really dont wanna cast lvl up alchemy and supply ur pts with the oils and powder ur self, and this goes for any mages in sky... if you wont cast s/i in me coming up thru the game dun ever ask me for an oil so you dont die from magic aggro ^.~.

and saying about the just because i have it i should have to use it... i have voke why should i keep the mob off ya ^.~

[lasamas]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

So if you get invited to a PT we should all ask you politely to teleport? If we dont no exp, if you dont invisi, no exp. Your a whm, get over it. Should a ninja be asked politely to cast Utsusemi, should you ask the blm to MB? Want me to ask the thf to pull every time a monster dies? I dont get why its such a problem, its not like your the only one keeping the party alive, if i have to ask you everytime I need sneak then you can ask me to engage every monster we fight ok?. Also ppl are assholes sometimes. Its just a game. Did posting a rant about how someone treated you on a game make your day just that bit better? Cause this post sure made mine.

Have you partied as a WHM before?

[eticket109]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

I always make sure to carry oils/powders with me. I don't like imposing on the mages for something I can take care of myself. I typically find they last longer anyway.

[Herrisa]

Re: Take a stand for politeness!

/sarcasm on
Bah... gimp WHMs! You all know you should have the spell Mind Reading I at level 50.
/sarcasm off

Really, people, how hard is it to do "/tell WHMname {Sneak} {Please}" when you enter a zone? Believe it or not, we can't read your minds. We need input... communication... dialogue. Most WHM don't mind sending a sneak your way if you try communicating your need.

To take not only politeness further, but to also save your life, stay with the mage if you're dependent on their sneaks to get you through a zone. Running off immediately after the spell is on casted on you means, to the mage, that you are capable of taking care of yourself when sneak/invis wears off.

You would think this borders more on common sense than politness. Unless I'm the only whm out there that can't read minds. If I am... somebody please hook me up .