Do I suck? was I wrong?

[Satori]

Hi everyone Just thought I would have a little rant while I'm here.
Right I'm a lvl12 Whm and decided it was time to got to the dunes and party, I got all my spells and some decent equipment and also got my stats fairly high for my level.
Anyway I play this game for fun and my own enjoyment and allthough I want to get as far as I can, Allthough I'm sensing the end of FFXI is nigh my main goal is to enjoy myself on remora.
Back to my issue well after I got to the dunes I waited ages for a party and eventually got an offer. the party already had a Whm at a higher level than me. I was the only person with a map of the dunes too, I told the leader I hadnt partied before and he said it was cool and he seemed really understanding. so I asked the group what the strategy was so i had an idea of who was doing what.

anyway "sorry for this"

the team all had a right go at me and I was still not sure of who was to be where and what ever. The thing that got me most annoyed was the other Whm. nobody had informed me if i was main healer or not.
So
the battles started and the other whm did nothing i had cast protect on everyone and aquaveil on myself so had used some mp already. during the battle only i was curing EVERYONE! dragging hate to me and getting myself clattered. I finally ran out of mp and realised the otrher whm was still doing nothing. so i said in party chat "no mp left "name of other whm" please take over I'm resting.

So I begin to rest and the party members are shouting at me to get up. as far as I know a whm job is to keep everyone alive and without mp I cant do it, the other whm had done nothing ALL battle so just before people died i used benediction wich got me killed. I made my way back to where we were and the fight was still going on and allthough i wasnt in the party anymore I felt obliged to stand at the side and heal them all till it was over. then I realised nobody was telling the other whm off he hadnt contributed at all to the battle no buffs cuz i did it beforehand no cures no banish or para! so they invited me again but I declined,
I said I'm sorry but I'm not going to party with you "other whm" is doing bugger all and i dont think i should help him leech exp from our hard work. then i said allthough I'm a newbie I worked my ass off for you guys and you were rude so i will leave you and tell "whm" that WHM is a JOB and with a job you do WORK! then I left

I always thought it was a game and thought some people take this game way too serious, but after that experience I now realise even as a casual player why people get so frustrated!

sorry for the BIG rant congrats if you got this far, I just needed to vent my anger because my bf doesnt understand what im on about lol.

and so to the main point of the thread

Was I wrong in what i was doing? Was I doing my job wrong? Was i wrong not to go back with them? why did they pick on me and not the lazy WHM with full mp and health?

thanks in advance for any advice you give

Love and hugs Galen from Remora xxx

[Jei]

Re: Do I suck? was I wrong?

Hey don't judge your performance based on experiance in the dunes ^^ The party's ability to perform well is always based on the team as a whole not you alone. And I ensure you it's hard to find a good team there. In your case I'd even say the PT you got was... well... lame at best. I don't quite understand why you weren't in the PT after you died. You got kicked? Or you left? If you got kicked, it's not your bussiness at all to go back to cure them. They did't appreciate your effort and kick you from PT after they killed you, literally. There's no need to be nice to them in that case.

a whm job is to keep everyone alive and without mp I cant do it

You can be the best Whm in the world but without MP there's really nothing else you could do. So it's totally not your fault. Why the other whm wasn't doing anything but remained in the PT was beyond me. But any level of stupidity is possible in the dunes so can't be too surprised : /

Anyway, with 2 Whm at early level, the most effective strategy imo is to take turns. 1 whm cures 1 whm rest and cycle between the 2. This of course means the other Whm will have to at least try to communicate with you.

Later on you probably won't be PTing with 2 whm that often. But if you do, it's good to plan ahead who you are going to haste/regen. It helps keeping the whole team hasting a lot easier and haste =

[qaitakalnin]

Re: Do I suck? was I wrong?

Jei is right, dont let this sour you, you did the right thing. Heck with 2 whms in the pt that pt should have been flying...and you shouldnt have had to use benni >< that other whm was.......well i dont know but you did all you could, standing to the side and healing them was very kind, but you did nothing wrong. Stick it out there are good peoples and parties out there.

[Blaez]

Re: Do I suck? was I wrong?

That doesn't make you a bad player, just a bad pt and pt leader for letting that whm do that. Maybe he was afk for a long long time lol. Dunes parties are horrible. When I started playing (04) parties were much easier and fun. Now you have all these people who know absolutly nothing. But no, you were not bad, you did your job, and even died for it. Which a whm should never do.

[Icemage]

Re: Do I suck? was I wrong?

This sort of story is very common in the Dunes. Most experienced players try their best to avoid that zone if at all possible - the quality of parties there is just terrible overall. Not that you can't get good and smart players, but they're the exception, not the rule...


Icemage

[Nazo]

Re: Do I suck? was I wrong?

Ugh yeah dunes parties are horrible. Just grin and bear it, you'll get through. It does get better eventually and there are some nice people on Remora, honest

The fact that you can question if it was your fault or not shows you have the right attitude, if you have a nice linkshell ask them if anyone wants to party, even a duo or trio party can help you grasp the basics of party mechanics pretty quickly, and doing so with friendly people can help build your confidence to withstand the idiots you'll encounter in dunes parties.

[Gentoo]

Re: Do I suck? was I wrong?

In particular, Valkurm Dunes are brutal on starting WHM's.

Experiened players are regaining their bearings, new players are figuring out what their role is. Basically what you've got is a collection of people sorting out their left elbow from their right.

Throw those players into a mass of other players that are "just leveling a sub," therefore not putting the effort in to doing the job correctly (bad gear, missing spells, etc), and you've got a pretty ... uhm ... chaotic environment.

As stated earlier, this is not the time to judge your ability to play WHM. Double emphasis on that advice in regards to this party, since they seemed perfectly willing to give up a productive party slot to have a leech.

The best thing you can do while partying in Valkurm Dunes is to start teaching yourself the nuances of the job; How little healing you can get away with while keeping everyone safe (a.k.a. MP conservation), timing your resting during battle so you get a tick of MP healing, learning who needs healing during battle versus those that can wait until afterwards, etc.

Back to your original questions.

> Was I wrong in what i was doing?
> Was I doing my job wrong?

Sounds like your party wasn't riddled with deaths, even being a member short. So no, at first blush it appears you were doing a bang up job.

> Was i wrong not to go back with them?

I don't think so.

There are unwritten rules concerning party etiquette, however. Typically if you're going to leave, give the party leader a 20-30 warning, and try to find a replacement.

[Sabaron]

Re: Do I suck? was I wrong?

My rule of thumb for dunes parties is this:

If I am a job with any melee ability whatsoever, I can solo in Konschtat Highlands/Tahrongi Canyon/Giddeus to 20 and skip the dunes entirely if necessary. If I am playing a non-soloable mage or mage-like job (WHM and BRD come to mind), I can probably get another invite within 10 minutes of disbanding. Rudeness and stupidity (especially of the party leader) is intolerable. I hate rude people in real life, so why would I want to be around them when I'm playing a game for my own enjoyment? If I did something stupid (which happens occasionally, especially when I'm playing a new job) I apologize and understand a little bit of agitation, but incessant stupidity or undue rudeness or ire (aka n00bism) results in a disband and reflag, but I always let the party know why.

Several times levelling in dunes (I'm working on experiencing all of the various character flavors so I know what they do at least on some level) has resulted in this policy. If I can't PT, I can solo until a good PT finds me. Bad PTs? I just tell them that the party is non-functional and suggest disbanding it (this happens a lot in the dunes) before leaving. I always give a party a chance though; subsisting on 50-70xp mobs b/c the party sucks is not an option. Just leave. If you have any interest in doing what I'm doing that has to be your policy, otherwise you'll never get anywhere. My goal is to keep a good number of jobs at similar level so that I can help as best I can with planning and strategy for various areas and situations. My soul is that of a Summoner, and I've always had an inclination toward the foppish Red Mages (I love the rapier; it's such an elegant, swift sword).

It is my personal philosophy that all rude and unfriendly people should forever be friendless and totally devoid of socialization until such time as they either change or expire. As that is the case, I've seen several of the people who provoked these episodes on later travels to the dunes still languishing at 17th level because there is no one left in the dunes who will invite them. Those who come across these Dunes Demons, beware, they have been forever imprisoned in the hell that is Valkurm as punishment for their n00bism, and to unleash them upon other zones would be a sin above all others. Leave them to fester in the desert where they belong...

Double Post Edited:
I'd like to add a note on self-replacing. Generally, I will self replace no matter what level party I'm in. People in Valkurm almost never do this--it is one of the biggest pains-in-the-ass of Valkurm. You will have near-infinite downtime while the leader has to search for a replacement and then wait for them to arrive.

I usually self-replace in a good party unless circumstances arise in which that would be impossible. In a bad party, however, I consider it bad form to self-replace. If I'm leaving because the party sucks, why would I visit aforesaid suckiness onto another person? Therefore, I cannot, in good conscience, replace myself in a party that I would not wish to be a member of.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Do I suck? was I wrong?

Man, sucks to hear about your crappy experience. I don't know why your other party members were allowing the other WHM to just sit there and watch. If it ever happens again, I wouldn't even bother with Benediction - just let them all die instead, and when they ask what happened, tell them you thought the other WHM would pick up where you left off when you said you were resting.

I mean honestly, as you put it, without MP what can you do?

That other WHM was a dick, plain and simple. A WHM should never go AFK during any battle, regardless of whether or not there's a backup healer. Too much can go wrong in a matter of seconds for the main healer (or even shared main, as should have been your case) to be away. At least at those low levels, the mobs are so strong and everyone is so weak, with very vew abilities at their disposal. At later levels when you've got a great setup with great DDs and the kills are coming as fast as the puller can bring them, and you've got good tanks - blink tankers who don't take damage or PLDs who know how to heal themselves - sometimes a WHM isn't even necessary. I've found myself to be completely unncessary at times in party with good tanks. Toss a few Regens out and I'm good for the rest of the fight to sit back and cast a few low-tier nukes (I'm talking tier I here) and Banish for some Divine magic.

But I digress.

You were definitely not in the wrong there, you did what you could, and you ate an unfortunate death. It's not normal for me to be vindictive in nature, but I seriously would have let the party eat dirt if they couldn't communicate what everyone's roles in the party were.

[Irisjir Callard]

Re: Do I suck? was I wrong?

In a bad party, however, I consider it bad form to self-replace. If I'm leaving because the party sucks, why would I visit aforesaid suckiness onto another person? Therefore, I cannot, in good conscience, replace myself in a party that I would not wish to be a member of.

I think I got blacklisted by a whitemage because I had them rep me in a sucky party.

So entirely agreed. If a party sucks, forcing it to disband and regroup with new members might be a good idea.

As far as dunes parties go...well...everything can be summed up in one word.

"Messy."

Links are messy. Hate is messy. MP is messy. Job roles are messy. Infact, everything is messy. The Dunes looks like a tropical paradise, but honestly, I'm thinking of re-skinning that zone to look like a landfill, because that's basically what it is.


As a whitemage, you will not be tested in Dunes. You will be slaughtered. The test is seeing if you pull yourself together again and keep plugging.

The excessive noobism continues to Quifm, and it used to go all the way to Kazaam. Now I believe it stops at Quifm.

But where you will be tested as a whitemage is in Eastern Altepa Desert. The anticans with AOE silence being spammed, AOE petrify being spammed, heavy damage output, insane defense...when your puller comes back with one of them, that is when the whitemages seperate the wheat from the chaff.

A hopeless whitemage stands in the petrify range, and watches silenced and helpless as the party drops one by one.

A good whitemage is just outside Sand Trap range, and pops an echo drop if silence hits them, and cranks out EXP like there isn't a tomorrow.

[Jei]

Re: Do I suck? was I wrong?

haha when people invite me they always think im japanese. Always got asked to invite other JP when they want to replacement. And... I HATE replacement. I feel so bad everytime I have to do so. And if the PT sucks I don't even do it.

[Mog]

Re: Do I suck? was I wrong?

Was I wrong in what i was doing? Was I doing my job wrong? Was i wrong not to go back with them? why did they pick on me and not the lazy WHM with full mp and health?

You weren't wrong at all. It seems that party is full of a bunch of noobs, and you were doing everything to the best of your ability, so you did nothing wrong!

The fact that you said that the other whm was doing nothing in the party sounds really strange to me. It sounds even stranger that the party was ratting on you (because you were healing) instead of him, who was doing nothing.

Overall......just get through the dunes and I assure you there will be less and less crappy parties you'll be in. Just brush it off.

[Hamlet]

Re: Do I suck? was I wrong?

Right I'm a lvl12 Whm and decided it was time to got to the dunes and party

I didn't have to read any further because I knew that it was going to be about a bunch of boneheads.

But I did, and it wasn't your fault. Don't let this experience discourage you. Just a bunch of boneheads that don't know what they're doing or how to communicate.

People are fond of two whm parties in the lower lvls (someone even tried to pull this crap in Altepa with me yesterday at lvl 32), but I've never been a fan. I'd rather have another damage dealer instead of another whm, especially since it's almost guaranteed that one of your damage dealers will be totally inept in the dunes.

Even if they were employing this strategy of switching out whms, that doesn't give the other whm the right to do nothing if the party is in trouble.

I dunno, just sounds like a really poorly planned party with gimp players.

One thing I don't understand is how you ended up outside of the party after you died. From how it's written, it seems like you bene'd, died, and then the party booted you on top of everything.

Like I said, just a bunch of boneheads.

[Mhurron]

Re: Do I suck? was I wrong?

People are fond of two whm parties in the lower lvls (someone even tried to pull this crap in Altepa with me yesterday at lvl 32), but I've never been a fan. I'd rather have another damage dealer instead of another whm, especially since it's almost guaranteed that one of your damage dealers will be totally inept in the dunes.

Even if they were employing this strategy of switching out whms, that doesn't give the other whm the right to do nothing if the party is in trouble.

Two WHM works really good right up till lvl17 when you have curaga and barfira. After that, if you want the extra healing a RDM is more then enough. Before that Bomb toss and Cursed Sphere can do huge amounts of damage that are very hard for one WHM with only a little MP to get a handle on. Switching resting during battles on the other hand really only works when the party is fighting mobs that they are almost too high for but they're still getting good exp, I mean the situation where when the next person levels you're only going to be getting 90exp or less per mob. Given the tendency for people to over hunt (bob hit 12 lets do gobs now!) that rarely happens.

You'll have good party experiences and bad ones. Enjoy the good ones and remember during the bad ones that EXPing really isn't the whole game.

[Hamlet]

Re: Do I suck? was I wrong?

Two WHM works really good right up till lvl17 when you have curaga and barfira. After that, if you want the extra healing a RDM is more then enough.

I can see how it could work well if you already have a decent party. Unfortunatley, I've never been in a decent party that decided to throw in another whm (or simply because whm is the only job seeking and they want to xp for their 20 minutes they've devoted to xping asap). Most of the time, they do it to cover for a weak party, and it never works the way it's intended, and more often than not BOTH whms are resting after one battle.