If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

Haste on a White Mage is a wondeful thing when you are able to keep the party alive using only a Regen cycle. Usually in these cases you aren't limited by MP, but rather the time it takes to cast the spell, and the time it takes to re-cast the spell. Haste may not help with casting time, but the time shaved off of recast time is handy enough to keep you from having to toss out that extra Cure III now and again.

[DakAttack]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

Also, I need a confirmation on this. We were fighting gobs in Bibiki Bay, and he blew himself up literally seconds after the THF pulled him to the party, needless to say I couldn't get there in time to Barfira, and the THF who also happened to be a Taru got one shotted (I think it dealt 800+ dmg).
I told the party that even if I did get Barfira up in time it doesn't affect suicide bomb tosses because it's based off the gobs hp, but I got in trouble for it anyway -_-;;. Can someone give me a confirmation on that?

Okay last thing, I think it was the Blue Mage that kept asking me to put up Shelra during the Mount Zhayolm Fire crawler battles. I told him as I casted it anyway, that Shelra only effects direct magical attacks and not mob weaponskills. I'm pretty sure I'm correct on this but another confirmation wouldn't hurt.

During the release of the Blue Mage job it seems Squenix changed the dynamics of most usual enemy abilities. From what I understand Bar spells reduced damage from anything that empoyed elemental damage. Shellra has a more pronounced affect, from what I've seen, now that a lot of enemy abilities are classified as magical and physical.

[samarium]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

Haste on a White Mage is a wondeful thing when you are able to keep the party alive using only a Regen cycle. Usually in these cases you aren't limited by MP, but rather the time it takes to cast the spell, and the time it takes to re-cast the spell. Haste may not help with casting time, but the time shaved off of recast time is handy enough to keep you from having to toss out that extra Cure III now and again.

But that's the thing about a cycle; once you apply it to everyone who needs it there will be exactly [recast time] seconds in between casts. Just as you finish casting it on, say, the NIN, the WAR's turn will come up as soon as the recast timer is off.

I guess if you have to stop to do sudden mass heals Haste would help, but missing Regen for 5 or 10 seconds won't kill you.

-sam

[Macht]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

Indeed.

Anyway, I can't think of a really good reason to haste yourself as a whm. I do it as a rdm sometimes when I'm late on my refresh cycle for some reason so that I can catch up, but I figure the extra mp gained from having refresh cast a little earlier is worth the mp spent on the Haste.

On the other hand, even if it is a questionable use of your mp, if you're doing your job just fine otherwise, that's no reason to threaten disbanding.

Put it this way were you the first one to think of trying to combine SATA with a WS or consider what benefit it had? Or were you one of the many that had it described out after the first few that discovered it and see it's benefits?

Were you the first to think /NIN with RNG (before they added distance as a factor and altered Utsusemi in the ways they have) was far suprerior because you could push beyond the hate line for pure damage results at the end of it all. Basically making you a sub tank and DD?

Were you the first to consider that a party of RNGs with a healer could create an effective exp party? Were you the first to consider that a party of BLMs could make an effective exp party?

Tons of stuff you see occure in game were likely shunned or people were very skeptical about.

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

Its a case of "the small things add up." Sure it may only be 10sec extra per cycle or whatever. But thats 3 tics. That's 60HP. Spread that across 4 melee and you ahve 240HP in those 10 extra seconds gained. Over the course of a few min... a half hour... three hours...

It adds up incredibly fast. But then, I'm also a very firm believer that the difference between a good party and a kick ass party is everyone going that extra mile and eeking out that tiny, itty, bitty bit of performance. But maybe thats just me.

[Feba]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

I do remember reading once that Haste speeds up your /heal timers, so that you would gain HP/MP back faster, not sure if there's any truth to that.

If you aren't running out of MP, go ahead, spend that extra 40, it'll make the PT a little safer. If you're strugging and wolfing down more cookies than this guy, you probably should save it.

[Rodin]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

IMO, Self-Haste serves one purpose in parties, and that's to keep up a haste cycle. Yes, I keep up a cycle of haste, I cast on myself first, why? Because, whenever haste wears, I'm usually too busy to notice the bland white text, that to my knowledge, can't have it's color changed. I always have up three Hastes: The tank, the melee with the lowest delay, and myself.

Nobody I ever party with complains about haste.

Without food, I have 1004 MP as WHM/BLM, and 1038 MP as WHM/BLM with Zenith pants. I have 1058 MP as WHM/SMN, and 1091 as WMN/SMN when I wear Zenith Pants. I don't think that extra 40MP every 3 minutes or so is really going to matter.

[Taskmage]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

No you can't change to color of an effect wearing off. Annoying as heck to a rdm because that's usually the most important thing in the chat log. Silence wears off. Refesh wears off. Stoneskin wears off. Gravity wears off. All mission critical stuff that needs to be reapplied immediately, but it's stuck in that easily overlookable dull gray color.

[BobKat]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

I really have to apoligize, I should have given a bit more background to the scenario that I was describing to explain my reasons for why I started Hasting myself in the first place. But I was trying to keep my first posts short.

After about level 20s of not casting Haste on myself and curing/hasting/etc. the tanks as normal, I had MP issues occasionally. I partied with Paladin tanks in Bibiki Bay that was getting stomped on by Dhalmels for 245 per hit many times, and partying with NINs in Mount Zhalyom getting hit through Utsesumi with the Fire Crawler's WS for up to 700+ dmg. Now maybe if I'm mistaken, but I often found casting Flash was crucial to whether or not I had mp at the end of the fight . Flash kept the regular dmg down during consistant big hits, and were life savers during those crazy WS at the beginning the battle that knocked my tank into the red from full hp, especially if I was trying to heal.

Now, I wished that there was a way for me to cast spells like Flash more often, and that's when I started Hasting myself. With Haste on, I could get off two Flashes per battle at 25mp a piece, 3 if it got prolonged, instead of the just one.
With Haste on, I had Flash ready when I needed it more often. I also liked how it reduced the recast timer on my Cure IV from 2 seconds to 0 so I could recast it during those split second moments when my tank and/or any other melees' hp dropped from near full to almost red, back up to full to each of them. This is before Cure V, which I still couldn't use effectively 'til the 70s because the cure/mp ratio wasn't great when I first got it. It really seemed to help out in those situations and so I kept hasting myself from then on.

Now the Tarutaru and the melees I was in a party with that didn't like me Hasting myself said because I was wasting mp. This wasn't because I was having mp issues, because my tanks weren't taking nearly so much dmg, and I was getting ballad in the BRD's party. They just didn't see anybody WHM doing it, and didn't believe that it really affected my performance so they thought it was a waste of mp even though I had plenty. But if mud hit the fan in those parties, they'd probably see why I keep Haste up on myself as well as the other melees. Benediction only works once every two hours.

I got to level 75 not because I only chose to party with good tanks, that barely took dmg and I barely need to rest. I got to 75 because I was able to make pick up parties where tanks or melees were being torn apart work long enough for me to get decent exp. It's also why I happen to bring along my trusty hi-ether tank, and/or stack my inventory full of juices. If I don't need them I don't use them, but I get into enough parties where my members get hit really hard and I need to use them constantly. THAT's When I'm talking about my mp issues.

Now for those people that say I wasn't doing my job keeping up all the buffs and mp while in such situations, that's why I made this post in the first place.

Also I'm gonna have to look deeper into the mob WS vs Shelra thing, I know it's not much mp to cast it considering it's duration, but I think it's best to know for sure.

edit: Yes, I did make the point that when I hasted myself, it was a lot easier to haste others because I just saw the icon disappear instead of looking for hard to see unchangeable grey text. So when I see my Haste wore off, I just started my Haste cycle over again. They thought that was stupid though ;_;

[Silenus]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

Dammit, Sam, you owe me a new keyboard. This one has iced tea all over it.

[Icemage]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

I do remember reading once that Haste speeds up your /heal timers, so that you would gain HP/MP back faster, not sure if there's any truth to that.

If you aren't running out of MP, go ahead, spend that extra 40, it'll make the PT a little safer. If you're strugging and wolfing down more cookies than this guy, you probably should save it.

Haste definitely does not affect /heal timers at all.

----

I'm not really sure why everyone is so wild about using a "Regen cycle". People aren't always damaged, which means if you've left Regen on someone who's already full, your MP efficiency goes down. Numbers below are rounded to the nearest tenth:

(not counting Regen merits or AF2 body):
Regen I heals 120HP for 15MP over 75 seconds. 8.0 HP per MP spent.
Regen II heals 240HP for 36MP over 60 seconds. 6.7 HP per MP spent.
Regen III heals 400HP for 64MP over 60 seconds. 6.2 HP per MP spent.

With Light/Apollo/Healing Staff and Noble's Tunic:

Curaga I heals 112HP per target at level 75 for 60 MP. With 3 targets, 5.6HP per MP spent, increasing to 7.5 HP per MP spent for 4 targets.

Cure heals 36 HP for 8MP, 4.5 HP per MP.
Cure II heals 112HP for 24MP, 4.7 HP per MP.
Cure III heals 235HP for 46MP, 5.1 HP per MP.
Cure IV heals ~462HP for 88MP*, 5.3 HP per MP.
Cure V heals ~725HP for 135MP**, 5.4 HP per MP.

* I don't remember the exact figure for Cure IV, since I never really cast it as a WHM...

** Cure V's potency has a lot to do with your Healing skill and MND score, so your mileage may vary somewhat depending on gear and stats.

Note that higher level Cures are more efficient than their lower level counterparts, while higher level Regens are less efficient than their lower level counterparts, though still always more efficient than any non-Divine Sealed Cure/Curaga.

Also note that Curagas are always more efficient than Regen II or Regen III when at least 3 party members need the full amount of HP granted.

In general, I only use Regen III on a Paladin tank or NIN tank taking lots of damage (Ninja against Jormungand or Tiamat, for instance). I almost never use Regen III on non-tank party members, since Regen I and II are simply more effective over time.

In closing, in any situation where your party is taking enough damage to be using a Regen III "cycle", alternating Regen I/II + judicious use of Curaga with sufficient -enmity to avoid pulling aggro is more MP efficient in the long run (plus you get more resting time).

Regen III is really only useful for cases where you are certain someone will be taking continual damage (Paladin tank).

EDIT: PS to BobKat. Cure V is immediately more efficient than Cure IV the moment you learn it at level 61 assuming you have that much damage to heal.


Icemage

[TheGrandMom]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

I would like to add that it sounds like the OP is overachieving. I know this first hand because it is one of my bad traits on whm. There are other pt members with heal, haste (depends), and such and sometimes you have to let go and let them help out. I used to be practically manic about it and felt like I was a sub par whm if a rdm had to cast haste or cure! But I'm now able to see my shortcomings and I can correct myself when I start to see it getting out of hand. So slow down, relax, and ask for help, thats what they are there for!

[Macht]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

I would like to add that it sounds like the OP is overachieving. I know this first hand because it is one of my bad traits on whm. There are other pt members with heal, haste (depends), and such and sometimes you have to let go and let them help out. I used to be practically manic about it and felt like I was a sub par whm if a rdm had to cast haste or cure! But I'm now able to see my shortcomings and I can correct myself when I start to see it getting out of hand. So slow down, relax, and ask for help, thats what they are there for!

Read through more, at one point he mentions trying to get the other mages to do part of it and they said it was his job. If you think he was overachieving it is because the other mages put all of the tasks on him, the other mages were overwhelming him.

Not right to calculate stats with a benefit on one and no benefits on another. Not to mention the data doesn't take time into consideration, the MP burned "in the long run" will change drastically if you're having to drop 88MP 4 times a min. (352MP and ~1,848HP) vs. dropping 88MP 3 times and 1 64MP a min. (328MP and ~1,786HP).

From what it shows there in just 1 min. the guy saved 24MP using a Regen. In 2 min. it'll be 48MP, 3 - 72, 4 - 96, 5 - 120, and so on...

As far as the dispute on casting regen on someone who is already full HP that is as bad as casting cures IV or V on someone who is only missing 30 HP. If managed right Regen is saving you a ton of MP, but only if managed right. Top it with any Refresh in effect and Regen is kicking the crap out of straight cures using your data and factoring time.

Not to mention also the hate gained from doing that, the one with the Regen not only saved MP but lower his hate if the Regen was cast before any monster was present.

[Jei]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

Haste reduce your recast time on everything, it's pretty helpful when you have to erase/haste a lot more other people. I only haste myself when I got slowed tho :O

For this situation I'd say, if the group is not willing to adjust their opinion to suite you, you might as well just do as they ask. The group is working fine right? Just don't waste energy argueing, get the EXP and be done with the group.
But that's just me.

[Joon]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

Okay last thing, I think it was the Blue Mage that kept asking me to put up Shelra during the Mount Zhayolm Fire crawler battles. I told him as I casted it anyway, that Shelra only effects direct magical attacks and not mob weaponskills. I'm pretty sure I'm correct on this but another confirmation wouldn't hurt.

If you check out the description of the shell icon on the top of the screen, it says something about protection from "elemental damage". I used to also think this meant only magic. I was in a skillup PT fighting crabs as a WHM/SMN & casted only protectra & barwatera to keep the protection to a minimum since there was no refresher & I wanted to concentrate on my club skill. I noticed I ended up curing a lot after the crabs did bubble shower anyway. One of the people in the PT suggested I use shellra. I reluctantly followed his suggestion and I noticed the damage done by bubble shower was a lot less than before.