If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

[BobKat]

That's what the taru bard said to my level 69-71 party a week ago. Now this didn't really bother me because the party knew this player was pretty much stuck on himself.

However there was another time when a War/NIN, and a Sam/THF asked me why do I haste myself. I told them that I spent the first 20 levels when I got this spell not hasting myself, and that when I did start doing it, my job became much easier. I don't know if the melees understood that Haste reduces the recast timers of spells, which is what I'm doing the whole time. They say I'm wasting 40 mp and that I don't need it.

Hasting the party is one of the major duties as a WHM as soon as they get the spell. Melees demand that they be Hasted at all times, and I even though I don't have to Haste myself (I stopped as soon as that Taru threatened me for the good of the party) I don't see why people would complain about me doing it, especially if I keep everyone else in my party Hasted as well? O.o


Anybody else can tell me what's going on?


Also, I need a confirmation on this. We were fighting gobs in Bibiki Bay, and he blew himself up literally seconds after the THF pulled him to the party, needless to say I couldn't get there in time to Barfira, and the THF who also happened to be a Taru got one shotted (I think it dealt 800+ dmg).
I told the party that even if I did get Barfira up in time it doesn't affect suicide bomb tosses because it's based off the gobs hp, but I got in trouble for it anyway -_-;;. Can someone give me a confirmation on that?

Okay last thing, I think it was the Blue Mage that kept asking me to put up Shelra during the Mount Zhayolm Fire crawler battles. I told him as I casted it anyway, that Shelra only effects direct magical attacks and not mob weaponskills. I'm pretty sure I'm correct on this but another confirmation wouldn't hurt.

Sorry for the long post.

[Medalink]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

That's what the taru bard said to my level 69-71 party a week ago. Now this didn't really bother me because the party knew this player was pretty much stuck on himself.

However there was another time when a War/NIN, and a Sam/THF asked me why do I haste myself. I told them that I spent the first 20 levels when I got this spell not hasting myself, and that when I did start doing it, my job became much easier. I don't know if the melees understood that Haste reduces the recast timers of spells, which is what I'm doing the whole time. They say I'm wasting 40 mp and that I don't need it.

Hasting the party is one of the major duties as a WHM as soon as they get the spell. Melees demand that they be Hasted at all times, and I even though I don't have to Haste myself (I stopped as soon as that Taru threatened me for the good of the party) I don't see why people would complain about me doing it, especially if I keep everyone else in my party Hasted as well? O.o


Anybody else can tell me what's going on?

Thats due to the fact there not a WHM and dont understand how we play, Haste yourself if you want as it does help. Exsplain why your doing it to resolve any issues and if they still dont want you to do it leave. If everyone keeps doing only what other people want nothing new will ever happen.

Also, I need a confirmation on this. We were fighting gobs in Bibiki Bay, and he blew himself up literally seconds after the THF pulled him to the party, needless to say I couldn't get there in time to Barfira, and the THF who also happened to be a Taru got one shotted (I think it dealt 800+ dmg).
I told the party that even if I did get Barfira up in time it doesn't affect suicide bomb tosses because it's based off the gobs hp, but I got in trouble for it anyway -_-;;. Can someone give me a confirmation on that?

Yes Barfira does help even on suicude bombs, however its not your fault he died as he was not close enough to you for help. But as WHM you must keep Barfira up at alltimes when fighting Gobs.

Okay last thing, I think it was the Blue Mage that kept asking me to put up Shelra during the Mount Zhayolm Fire crawler battles. I told him as I casted it anyway, that Shelra only effects direct magical attacks and not mob weaponskills. I'm pretty sure I'm correct on this but another confirmation wouldn't hurt.

ALLWAYS in every party cast Shell, Everything it effects is not known, it does not cost to much to cast and it may or may not help, but it does nothing if its not up. (If your low on mp during a fight and it wears wait till you can recast but try and keep it up)

On 1 last note, its not allways about if you need it or not, its more so about if its needed do you have it ready?

Medalink

P.s And as I play my WHM my goal is to counter-act the mobs every move to not let anyone in my party (or surrounding partys) die. I play this way as it make's me focused and if for some reason someone dies I can say I did everything poissible to prevent it. How many can say that?

[TheGrandMom]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

Haste is one of those spells that no one ever agrees upon. 40 mp is a lot of mp to throw around if you are hasting everyone in the pt. Plds should be hasted because it lowers the recast on needed spells like flash. Nins should be hasted because it lowers the Utsusemi recast. Beyond that it is situational. You need to test out the pt and see how well they are doing in the area and look at your mp usage. Sometimes we need to cut corners to make the pt viable and sometimes there will be some melee who do not get haste because of this. Drks, Wars with GA or GS, or any 2 handed weapon user is always on the top of my haste list. After that its pretty much a crap shoot every pt because it will depend on the individuals in it so there really is no set pattern. Also don't forget that rdms get haste too and they should be helping. It's best to lay down a hasting order with another haster so that you are not wasting mp by double casting. There are only certain occasions where I will haste myself, as a whm. That has a lot to do with merits and equips also though. I've fully merited cure cast time and I have equips to enhance/haste.

I have to say that the thf dying is not your fault but do NOT wait for pullers to come back in order to cast your bar spell. Once they come back you should be ready to cast and do so and that way they will receive it also, but keep up your bar spell on whoever is at camp.

Shellra is another big debate. Some say cast no matter what and others say to know your mobs and do not cast if they are not spell casters. I won't cast it if there isn't a spell casting mob but if I am asked to I do so, without saying a word. It's like which came first, the chicken or the egg? Meh.

[Macht]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

Really in my opinion if you have the extra MP to do that then go ahead. It's really sad and stunts growth and discovery when people supress exploring new methods. Especially if you got everything else covered why the hell should they care what else you are doing.

I mean if you got everyone hasted, and you are curing and everyone is at an agreeable amount of health all the time yet you always have some 200-400 left of MP that you never burn out then why the hell should they care what you spend it on. I mean if you got that constant 200-400 MP left burning a little on something that could help improve the speed at how a party operates should be encouraged not surpressed.

I mean damn how the hell do you think stuff like the arrow burns and mage burns came about. Those kind of idea I know didn't start happening till around June of 2004 good time after the US community had been playing and a group of them wanted to try something.

Other then that really Barfira is a quick spell and little MP so it's better to use more proactive then reactive. As far as Magic based WS considering how THF can use SATA with Physical based WS but not with Magic Based ones it seems to suggest that how the system calculates it that shell would help with magic based ws. Until it's actually tested and proven on what it does work for better to error in good for the party then what could be bad for them.

[kuu]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

Em...what spells would a whm need to lower recast on?

Cures are 1-3 seconds recast, and the animation actually makes up for it, since the animation is actually slightly longer then the spells casting timer.

Not to mention you can alternate spells.

One can make the case that it lowers future haste on other people, and regen, and perhaps erase(erase isn't ment to be back to back no matter the case) but...

With the amount of time you cast haste on yourself, Mp can be gained /healing, another regen, etc.

Most spells on whms are less then 30 seconds recast time, and cutting a few seconds is pretty trivial when what you lost on recast, you gain on cures.

I can't say self haste is useless, but I can't say it's very useful too, as whms timelessly micromanage without needing recast lowered.

If you got mp to spend, you could nuke, if need be. I've MB blizzard or water for a decent damage, doesn't hurt.

I don't remember ever casting haste on my whm except before mass R3s.

Heck I can't repect any whm that /heal waits 20 seconds stand's to haste then /heal again...idiot just ruined the healing cycle.

At such high levels, I forgo a lot of the spells anyway, and stick to big cures. Cure 5 is great with the extra healing cycles you get.

[Icemage]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

How did you get to level 75 and not learn these things?

If you need Haste to do your job as a WHM, you're playing the job wrong. You have five Cures, four Curagas, three Regens. Status removal spells, with the exception of Erase and Blindna, have negligible recast times (and if you need to cast more than one Erase, well, that's what Divine Veil is for). The ONLY time I ever cast Haste on myself is to reduce the recast timer on Raise III during Dynamis or other large-group wipe conditions.

I agree with the criticism; you're wasting MP.

---

Barfira does help protect against Bomb Toss.

---

Shellra does help reduce damage from all magical attacks, not just spells.


Icemage

[Macht]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

Really if the Haste takes on even 3 seconds on a recast that covers Cure spells casting time. Seems like it gives more leway to caster acomplish more.

Like when I use to play Anarchy Online everyone in that game always went for the weapons with high damage even though delay was sickeningly high too. I noticed delay on the smaller weapons was better and with a few augments I could push delay to almost nothing and weapon damage to quite decent amount.

Needless to say never needed a party to max out my levels and did it quite quickly, damage output may of seemed small but the DoT was insainly high. Funny as hell that no one there seemed to understand how the heck I could beat their kickass weapon when they only swung it like 2 or 3 times before I killed them...

Reduced time is reduced time and is always been beneficial in my experience it is only not if the reduction doesn't shave off enough to give something useful a "piggyback" on with another. Now casting a spell like haste and interrupting a heal cycle is stupid weather it is yourself or someone else. That heal cycle is pretty crucial if not managed right can be a problem.

But I mean if you got the Cures out as needed and keeping your heal cycle ok, what reason is there for picking on the guy for using something like that. Out of a fluke he might find something were it provides a good use.

[BobKat]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

I see what you're talking about. All you can do is mybest, and if they are complaining then I should just leave and have them replace me with someone else.

I just want to point out that I'm an Elvaan WHM/BLM with about 730mp and even with Noble's Tunic I still have mp issues. Depending on how fast the party kills the mob, my Barspells and Haste will either last 1-3 fights before I have to recast.

Now the new question is that, are there WHMs that can keep the parties hp virtually full after every single fight, remove all debuffs as soon as they get them, and keep Haste, and the barspell(s) on all the melees at all times, and still have time to heal for mp? Because I simply cannot do that.

Unless I get both a Bard/Corsair Refresh stacked with Red Mage's Refresh, I'm gonna need to sit down and heal for a good 30s-1min 30sec to get my mp back.
If a NIN's Haste wears off, or the tank has poisona, or Barfira wears off while I'm trying to get my MP back up from 6%, then I tell them to wait 'til I get up to recast it. If it's something horrible like Slow, Viruna, Silence, Bio, etc, then I get rid of it immediately.

Maybe I should just forget BLM and sub RDM for Fast Cast so I can rest more, or SMN for Auto-Refresh so I don't have to sit as much. I've got the expensive Mushroom Stew as my staple food, and I'm chugging hi-ethers and/or melon juice (depending on the Refresher) like crazy.

Keep in mind that I don't have any gripes in doing all this, I just don't understand how melees simply expect me to keep everything up at all times when I need to sit once and a while for mp, and RDMs or even BRDs telling me that their doing my job when I ask them to erase status or help cure when they have 80% mp and I'm healing.


edit: I don't know if I mentioned this already, but I don't need Haste to function, I've went 20 levels without it (well 60 if you count before I even got the spell), I'm just saying that when I do have plenty of mp cast it on myself, buffing, curing, and status removal becomes a lot easier for me.

[Icemage]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

This underpins your problem; you already state that you're having MP issues. Why are you spending 40 MP for Haste on yourself to reduce the recast on your spells by .25 seconds or so each?

WHM should be able to function just fine with a single Refresh or double Ballad, particularly with access to a Noble's Tunic/Vermillion Cloak/Dalmatica/Cleric's Briault.


Icemage

[samarium]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

I see what you're talking about. All you can do is mybest, and if they are complaining then I should just leave and have them replace me with someone else.

I just want to point out that I'm an Elvaan WHM/BLM with about 730mp and even with Noble's Tunic I still have mp issues. Depending on how fast the party kills the mob, my Barspells and Haste will either last 1-3 fights before I have to recast.

Now the new question is that, are there WHMs that can keep the parties hp virtually full after every single fight, remove all debuffs as soon as they get them, and keep Haste, and the barspell(s) on all the melees at all times, and still have time to heal for mp? Because I simply cannot do that.

Unless I get both a Bard/Corsair Refresh stacked with Red Mage's Refresh, I'm gonna need to sit down and heal for a good 30s-1min 30sec to get my mp back.
If a NIN's Haste wears off, or the tank has poisona, or Barfira wears off while I'm trying to get my MP back up from 6%, then I tell them to wait 'til I get up to recast it. If it's something horrible like Slow, Viruna, Silence, Bio, etc, then I get rid of it immediately.

Maybe I should just forget BLM and sub RDM for Fast Cast so I can rest more, or SMN for Auto-Refresh so I don't have to sit as much. I've got the expensive Mushroom Stew as my staple food, and I'm chugging hi-ethers and/or melon juice (depending on the Refresher) like crazy.

Keep in mind that I don't have any gripes in doing all this, I just don't understand how melees simply expect me to keep everything up at all times when I need to sit once and a while for mp, and RDMs or even BRDs telling me that their doing my job when I ask them to erase status or help cure when they have 80% mp and I'm healing.

Hi-Ethers are really only needed for a scant few purposes, using them during exp signals a problem.

Don't worry about haste on yourself, it won't help you. Rest any chance you get - PLD tanks self-heal, and NIN's job is to avoid damage entirely, if you're having to constantly pour MP into them to keep them alive then they're doing something wrong.

Don't worry about keeping every single person at 100% HP, they don't need it. Focus on the tank. I keep my entire party in white, but not at full. If someone aside from the tank is constantly stealing hate and requiring MP pourage, either the tank needs to keep up or the DD needs to slow down.

Make intelligent use of Regen. Always keep Regen on the PLD, and use it instead of Cure spells to heal melees that only take hate occasionally. Regen II at level 55 will heal a melee from yellow HP to full if left alone.

Ignore status ailments that aren't relevant - STR Down on the BLM, or Evasion Down on the DRK. Evasion Down must be Erased from the ninja ASAP, but beyond that most Stat Downs can be ignored.

If three or more people are in yellow, use the equivalent Curaga. Try to avoid it duing battle, it pulls a lot of hate.

Never Cure yourself. Use Regen if you feel you can do so safely.

Rather than constantly spam small cures, let them get low and then Cure V. A PLD will be able to self-cure long enough to let you rest a few ticks, and competent NIN won't get hit for a good long while.

Tell your puller to wait until you reach a safe level of MP; if they're pulling and pulling and pulling with no respect to your MP level, point and laugh when they die.

-sam

[Ryddr]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If a Whm can manage healing/ailments/buffs effeciently without haste, then there really isn't a reason to use it. I'm not saying you can't and by all means, go ahead if you've got the MP, but on the otherhand, having haste only allows you to cast more. Thus, costing you even more MP because you've simply had more time to cast more spells. So the net loss (of MP) is 40 from haste + any extra spells you cast because of haste's effect.

If you can do it without haste...

[samarium]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If a Whm can manage healing/ailments/buffs effeciently without haste, then there really isn't a reason to use it. I'm not saying you can't and by all means, go ahead if you've got the MP, but on the otherhand, having haste only allows you to cast more. Thus, costing you even more MP because you've simply had more time to cast more spells. So the net loss (of MP) is 40 from haste + any extra spells you cast because of haste's effect.

If you can do it without haste...

Although I certainly wish Haste would also give a sort of Fast Cast effect. I KNOW I could do with a faster-casting Cure spell!

Especially later on, when hate-stealing DD (THF who misses TA) and tanks made of paper (NIN) go from full to DEAD in one double-attack and a WS.

-sam

[Macht]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

God I hate that quote with such passion. Our data entry method wasn't broke, it tredded along just fine. I however fixed it to were it tredded along from being 3 people to just 1, the other 2 were open to take on bigger tasks improving performance far better then it would of been.

Nothing was wrong with the previous method everything was going along like normal, but now it does just that but has extra space to play with and explore to make ever better improvements. Sorry but that philosophy is so dated, old, and poorly designed I disqualified its philosophical purposed to me nearly a decade ago...

[samarium]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

God I hate that quote with such passion. Our data entry method wasn't broke, it tredded along just fine. I however fixed it to were it tredded along from being 3 people to just 1, the other 2 were open to take on bigger tasks improving performance far better then it would of been.

Nothing was wrong with the previous method everything was going along like normal, but now it does just that but has extra space to play with and explore to make ever better improvements. Sorry but that philosophy is so dated, old, and poorly designed I disqualified its philosophical purposed to me nearly a decade ago...

So... uh.. to tie this in.

Your Data Entry platform was <No more MP!>, and you were all <Haste>, and it was all <Erase> plz, and then it had to </heal>, but now it's all moving along so fast that it's all <No more MP!> again, and.... ah....

OK, I lose.

-sam

[Taskmage]

Re: If he Hastes himself one more time I'm disbanding.....

Indeed.

Anyway, I can't think of a really good reason to haste yourself as a whm. I do it as a rdm sometimes when I'm late on my refresh cycle for some reason so that I can catch up, but I figure the extra mp gained from having refresh cast a little earlier is worth the mp spent on the Haste.

On the other hand, even if it is a questionable use of your mp, if you're doing your job just fine otherwise, that's no reason to threaten disbanding.