Power levels and the White Mage.

[Vaigrant]

Re: Power levels and the White Mage.

Now that is a bad day Sasaki. Frankly there are times I just outright forget about my food, but no one seems to care since I keep up with what Im doing anyways. My stance on PLing is I dont like to Recieve it and I dont like to Do it.

Early on you should learn what to do through persaverance, effort and of course trial and error. Experiance is the best teacher and PLing can rob people of the experiance needed to learn what to do. Of course some people never learn regardless of what they do, and will always be bad players.

[Buzer]

Re: Power levels and the White Mage.

I know some will think "tl;dr", but oh well :p

Well, I'm farirly new. I did do some research about blm's & game mechanics before I started. I can admit, I was pl'ed (by friend) for the first time for like 1-7 (and it was still quite slow). After that, we partied 7-8 in Tahrongi Canyon. 8-12 I soloed and after that I headed to Dunes. It wasn't easy trip. Far from it. I didn't know using regular ship didn't need any kind of pass, so I did the hard way: Wind-ESaru-TahCan-MeriM-SauroC-Jeuno-RolanberryF-PashlowM-KonschatH-Dunes. When I arrived in Dem, I got the keyitem and put the party flag on. Within like 3 minutes I was invited and I headed there. Apparently they had a pl'er. Everything gone well and after a while (I think it was when I hit 13. I joined the party when I had just hit 12 again due to de-leveling during the trip) we moved to Snippers along with the pl'er. Everything gone fine. Pl left a while after and we just continued like nothing happend (we did have whm) & I think we had maybe 2 deaths after she left (partied for around 2hr more I think).

I have got some parties where there was a pl after that as well, but personally I don't think I'm doing too bad in parties that don't have one (for example, 23.5-26.1 in about 3h today @ Jungle with 5 JPs (=~4k/hr). I did pull a bit too much hate a few times, but no other problems (I don't count that I had no idea what they were saying as problem). No one even died).

But once I started to level my whm, I must admit that I pretty much hated it. Not beause of pl'ers, but mainly with my luck to find parties. I have partied 6 times. 2 were terrible since most of the people didn't really know what their job was & they didn't seem to understand English, Japanese or auto-translator. 2 were 'okey' as in people did have somewhat of grasp of their jobs, but most were too poor to afford good equips (I did stay in those for quite a while. As long as they can somehow manage their job, I don't have problems with them since I know they are still learning & they will most likely become good when given chance). 2 were great, but suprisingly enough, both of them had a powerleveler. They weren't good only because of that, but because everyone was doing their job as good as they could & had decent gears. Of course, pl left eventually and we did fine afterwards.

What we learn from this? As long as you somehow know what you are doing with or without pl, one only makes things go faster.

I do understand why some people would deny party invites that included pl, but personally I have nothing against them.

[Cometgreen]

Re: Power levels and the White Mage.

I recently came back to the game after a 2 year hiatus and I have to say the amount which a lot of people rely on Powerlevelling is astounding.

I know this comment is over a month old, but I had the exact same experience. I left in summer 2004, and when I came back this summer I was amazed at how many parties I had were PLed. It does seem like the popular notion nowadays is to PL yourself through the dunes to get out as soon as you can. I now prefer to solo up to 15 (the empress band is freakin awesome), as 15-20 can be pretty easy imo.

I won't leave a group because there's a PL, but I always feel dirty about it. Luckily, my subs haven't had many PLers going through Qufim and Kazham (and overall have gotten good xp).

[Sacred]

Re: Power levels and the White Mage.

Well, having just recently getting this game I can say this.

I just hit level 19 as a WHM. A couple of parties I have been in have had a PL, I didn't really think much of it other than I was able to raise my enfeebling and divine skill a little more. To me the PLing is ok as long as it isn't determinal to your knowledge of your job...which leads me to what happened today.. >.>;;;


I logged on into Selbina, put up my party flag, and was promptly invited (yay!!). Ok, so i join up, head out to the camp to meet up with the rest of my party of 5 (so far we only had five). The puller pulls a mob, an IT if i remember correctly. 2 of the 5 of our party were white mages, me included. Now our tank is getting hit HARD and i'm forced to cure spam just to reduce the rate of which his health depletes. Whats the other Whitemage doing? MELEEING!! I couldn't believe it. Our tank is getting maimed and one of our healers is swining a stick around (missing of course). I was able to keep the tank alive though, Divine Seal + Cure II = HP. I knew I would take hate, but i had to do it, so i did. A little bit after that I noticed that our tank (who had regained hate), now safely had 250ish hp, I also noticed the mob was low enough in hp for a Banish nuke to promptly end the fight, and so it ended. ^.^;;

Needless to say after that I was amazed at this stupid WHM. 2 more battles ensued (thankfully not IT), and after that a friend that I made that day and I left. Good riddance!

Later on that day I was invited to another party, after I was invited the same guy got invited. And for whatever reason the party leader gave me leadership. I didn't want to kick the guy..i'd feel bad. But after 2 of the invites I sent out were rejected because this guy was in my party (both because he had done nothing but melee and got these guy's whole party killed), he got the boot.

After that I had formed the most elite fighting unit ever assembled and we totally rocked hardcore for a short while, getting me from 17 to 19 :3.


So was this guy an after-effect of PowerLeveling? I sure hope not....

[arkaine23]

Re: Power levels and the White Mage.

Only read the original post....

I understand having a negative view of powerleveling, especially after level 25 when WHM's have Raise, and most jobs have enough of their core abilities to function well in their particualr roles. It doesn't help new players learn real party tactics (though lower levels are vastly different than higher levels anyway), and can cut into some jobs' healing magic skillups. But on the other hand, it gets you out of the Dunes/Qifum much faster, which when you're on your 3rd-18th tour through, you tend to appreciate.

For a WHM specifically in a PL'd party:

You should pack a decent hammer-type weapon as well as the usual +mnd/int wands. Be ready to pop cookies or synth juices, and work on your enfeebling and divine skills. Banish nukes can be quite decent, when you don't have much else to contribute for your primary function in a party due to a PL.

I chose to solo worms for a lot of xp between 14-23, and had PL's about 1/2 the time I chose to party in those levels. My Divine magic was therefore capped. Me and the other WHM in my party really pwnt the Qifum worms with banishes and the RDM's nukes doing far more damage than the melees (had a PL).

On another note, Healing and Enhancing can both get skilled up by spamming the spells on yourself outside your Mog house.

PL will get you faster xp and less downtime at the expense of altering your tactics and maybe gimping the experience (as in player learns how to play type skill) for how to play your job at low levels. Communication is always a good thing, so if you find people who are misinformed or inexperienced in the group, be sure to offer them tips and try to be helpful. Make your tone friendly and work in /tells when you think it more appropriate.

[Susurrus]

Re: Power levels and the White Mage.

I'm not saying I support PLs (or saying I don't for that matter, though I don't personally do it), but the "My Healing Magic" point is kinda moot when you consider people invite SMNs as main healers (Healing Magic is only from WHM SJ...aka very low, especially in the higher levels...at 63 my healing magic is capped at 96...).

[Cherryneko]

Re: Power levels and the White Mage.

I agree with the OP completely. My first job was White Mage, and I didn't have any PL going through the Dunes subless. I survived, my parties survived, and I learned how to do my job. From Black Mage (second job) on, I've been in at least one party between levels 10-25 where there was a PL. Don't like them, period.
When I was leveling Paladin in the Dunes, there was ALWAYS a PL, and natrually, I felt useless. How am I supposed to learn how to balance hate and whatnot when someone else is tanking? Don't know why these parties invited me to begin with, seriously. These days, everyone sees a PL as a savior, the easy way out, etc, when a lot of these people are new to the job or the game, and should really learn how to do things for themselves.
However, I have done one-on-one power leveling, but only for my boyfriend's lower leveled jobs. When party invites are slim, we go get tough monsters and he fights for a few hours with an exp band on while I Protect, Shell, and Haste him as well as keeping him alive. Since we play FFXI from the same room on our own televisions, he can go AFK while I pull a mob, have him auto attack and I throw on a few cures, and vice versa. This helped capped my healing magic in the end as well.

[Vaigrant]

Re: Power levels and the White Mage.

However, I have done one-on-one power leveling, but only for my boyfriend's lower leveled jobs. When party invites are slim, we go get tough monsters and he fights for a few hours with an exp band on while I Protect, Shell, and Haste him as well as keeping him alive. Since we play FFXI from the same room on our own televisions, he can go AFK while I pull a mob, have him auto attack and I throw on a few cures, and vice versa. This helped capped my healing magic in the end as well.

One on One PLing I can say is situationally ok. In times when you need to cap Healing Magic I can see this as a solution, and plus for a Melee they are still getting the neccessary Skill Ups such as Shield, Parry, Guard, Weapon and Evasion ect. ect. The only draw back is the actual experiance to PTing, which is why Ill maybe do a Lvl of PLing or two and then end it there(I only PL on an exchange basis, I.E. I got my SAM from 16-17 in exchange for PLing a friend of mine the same amount).

Id much rather advise people to doing Korroloka Tunnel PTs without a PL than Dunes With after about 15-16ish. The XP in Korr and the Ease of Worms will help build the Party Dynamics you'll need to survive later Game PT's and if its not crowded you can zoom through lvls there too(Switching ot maybe a Duo or a Trio after 20 can easily get you to 25, I did this a long time ago as a Rdm/Whm with a War/Dont remember lol)

Infact at about 16ish I try to make Korr Parties instead of Dunes(Plus Im HP in Bastok all the time so much more conveniant Outpost Warps FTW ^_^) There are plenty of alternatives to Using a PL but, apparently most people would rather make that rush to the end, have crappy playing skills and in general wish at lvl 60 they could get a PL again.

[Pteryx]

Re: Power levels and the White Mage.

I've already talked about my own PLing policies in a reply to this Smithy post:

http://goblinsmithy.blogspot.com/200...ittle-one.html

As for being on the receiving end?... Well, on Midgardsormr, in the Dunes it's just plain unavoidable, so I take it there without complaint. As for later, I've been saddened and troubled to see PLers gradually creep to higher and higher levels. They can occasionally appear even as high as Garlaige, though it's theoretically possible to have a party without one as low as Qufim -- though in Qufim and sometimes the jungles, people will actually call for them. Terrible state of affairs, this...

And yes, it did make things a pain in the early levels of White Mage. It annoyed me when people told me NOT to use Banish in a heavily PLed party with other mages debuffing or when I'd already stuck what few debuffs I had. Well, what the hell else was I supposed to do, then?! -- Pteryx

[Deeman]

Re: Power levels and the White Mage.

Well, as far as PLing goes, I'm pretty experienced so, like Icemage said, there's nothing I can really learn from "normal" pts. When i do PL, i dual-log a friend's 75 rdm or whm and make my own team of melees (the same ones that "auto-attack and watch TV" in normal pts). I wont grab any mage types because they need to learn the basics of their job.

[Ziero]

Re: Power levels and the White Mage.

I had a Plvl in kuftal the other night, it made me a sad panda.

Pt started out Nin, Sam, Rdm, Blu, Smn, Thf. As far as I'm concerned, there is *no* need for a Plvl in that pt. At all. Under any circumstances. 5/6 of those jobs are able to solo decently, especially on something as weak as crabs, yet there we were, in a 3-4k an hour pt, lvls 54-56, with a Plvler. They wouldn't even handle links, if something popped an aggroed on my way back from a pull(i hate pulling in tunnels...) I'd either have to zone it or the Plvl would solo it.

Though I guess I shouldn't complain, it certainly beats the last few >1k an hour exp pts I've had there with both my thf and war. Though if it weren't for the Sam being awesome and the Blu kickin some ass, we would've had a much worse exp gain.

[Chveya]

Re: Power levels and the White Mage.

And yes, it did make things a pain in the early levels of White Mage. It annoyed me when people told me NOT to use Banish in a heavily PLed party with other mages debuffing or when I'd already stuck what few debuffs I had. Well, what the hell else was I supposed to do, then?! -- Pteryx

This is what I was getting at with my previous post. I chose to play WHM because, when in a proper party, I love the job. It was a dirty feeling when I realized that I am the exp leech. In my experience, in a PL'd party with BLM or RDM, WHM doesn't really contribute much. A bar- spell, a poisona, maybe the RDM will let me cast paralyze...then what?

My recent experience bringing RDM thru Dunes and Qufim consisted of one extreme or the other. Half the parties I was in, I was main heal with 5 DDs, frantically busy healing, debuffing, buffing, having a blast! The other half of the time, we had at least one PL, and I was meleeing (after tossing neccessary debuff/buffs, of course). All my magic skills (except Divine) were capped from already doing WHM and BLM, so I figured fark this, I'm swinging my sword.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Power levels and the White Mage.

The other half of the time, we had at least one PL, and I was meleeing (after tossing neccessary debuff/buffs, of course). All my magic skills (except Divine) were capped from already doing WHM and BLM, so I figured fark this, I'm swinging my sword.

Of course you should swing that sword.

In the jungles, I noticed that en-spells were adding 25%+ to my sword damage, which made me a respectable DD. (Well, I only melee'ed when we're low on DD's, since mandies have that annoying sleepga.)

If you're going to be up instead of healing for MP because you need to reapply enfeebs or backup cure, you might as well hack at the mob with a good sword (with en-spell on) to add damage, whether there's a PL or not.

En-spell is an incredibly MP efficient way to add damage, and low level RDM's should take advantages of it while they can in exp parties. (Just forget TP and WS; switch your wand in for enfeeb spells, and switch back to sword after casting.)

[Chveya]

Re: Power levels and the White Mage.

In the jungles, I noticed that en-spells were adding 25%+ to my sword damage, which made me a respectable DD. (Well, I only melee'ed when we're low on DD's, since mandies have that annoying sleepga.)

If you're going to be up instead of healing for MP because you need to reapply enfeebs or backup cure, you might as well hack at the mob with a good sword (with en-spell on) to add damage, whether there's a PL or not.

En-spell is an incredibly MP efficient way to add damage, and low level RDM's should take advantages of it while they can in exp parties. (Just forget TP and WS; switch your wand in for enfeeb spells, and switch back to sword after casting.)

En-spells have been known to more than double the effect of my melee damage, but that's because my average hit is very weak. I don't bring any DD gear or food with me when I lvl RDM, plus I'm a Tarutaru with lower physical stats to begin with. I'd often see "You deal 0 damage to the Goblin Ambusher; the Goblin Ambusher receives an additional 7 damage." (I'm sure I don't have that quoted verbatim but you get the picture ^^). I feel that when I do hit for 3 measly points of damage from my sword, I'm not contributing enough damage to make it worth adding more TP to the mob. Plus, I'd just rather not be in AoE range. -_-; The other day I simply removed my meleeing equip swap macro from my macro set; I just don't see it being really worth it for me to be doing in normal parties. If I was geared differently, or if I was a different race, it might be a different story.

But I'll probably still bring my sword next time I exp...just in case. ^^

[Icemage]

Re: Power levels and the White Mage.

RDMs actually melee acceptably up to about level 33 if they wield a Centurion's Sword. After that, though, things go south very fast.


Icemage