Crow/Raven v. AF

[Illuminatus]

I was partying in Caedarva Mire (which is great EXP by the way for 55-57), and the SMN told me that I should be wearing Crow/Raven gear instead of my AF [except for the hands when I get there]. Now, I know Enmity- is important, but is it important enough to toss the AF I've worked so hard on getting?

First of all, the Crow/Raven set has massive Enmity- that I would never generally need. I'm not Cure IVing every 5 seconds. Every time the Ninja's shadows went down and he got interrupted, I Flashed instead of Cure IVing him, then Cure III'd and Regen II'd. She (the SMN) said that if I had the Crow/Raven set, I could go right for the Cure IV. Do I really need more Enmity- than the Enmity-10 on the AF?

[Jei]

Re: Crow/Raven v. AF

If the tanks can't hold hate off you, then wearing crow sets can save you I guess. Or if you're planning to skill up divine magic with flash.

However, I'm not a whitemage but the AFs' stats don't look too helpful to me. I think you can replace some of them with crows and not missing out anything much.

enfeeble+10 on the body piece looks nice if you're enfeebling.

the cap's 4MND, the feet's 30% interuption rate down, other pieces don't seem to give any interesting boost. except for +MP.

[Murphie]

Re: Crow/Raven v. AF

I stopped playing my WHM about a month or two after the Crow set was introduced to the game, but at the time I was at the ideal level to give it a try, and I bought the Jupon and the Beret (or whatever the hat is called) and swapped them in occasionally in EXP parties.

If I recall correctly, once I got my Briault, I sold my Jupon. But I kept the beret or whatever and swapped it in any time I cast a high enmity spell. I didn't really feel that there was a huge need for it, but sometimes if the tank's hate was shaky, it was nice to swap those in and keep myself a bit lower on the hate list.

So I guess what I'm saying is that it can't hurt, but it's not always entirely necessary. Use your judgement.

[Feenicks]

Re: Crow/Raven v. AF

I used WHM AF for the best part of Lv50-70. It serves the purpose perfectly fine in my opinion. The stats aren't awesome but it's still pretty good and it's also free. I tend to think of the Crow set as being great for the -Enmity but really, there's a point you can reach where you're sacrificing too much just for some -Enmity. Even though AF has some bizarre stats (like +STR, +VIT etc) it still has a ton of +MP and the +15 Healing Magic and +10 Enfeebling Magic can definitely some in handy when you're going through Lv50-70.

Personally I'd rather have a tank that doesn't require me to drop Cure IV at Lv56 because it's not necessary. But if your tank requires it, then you may have no choice.

[Kenki]

Re: Crow/Raven v. AF

I don't think the crow gear is nessessary. A whm can still do pretty well without it. Well, the way I see it is that if your tank can't hold hate from you then:

#1 You are doing something wrong. Over cures? Flash too much? Crow gear will help you on this but I think it'd be better to work on refining your healing tech.

#2 Your tank is having trouble tanking. If your tank is really bad at tanking or just being unfortunate then even your crow gear won't beable to help you much. Maybe, helping the tank with some tanking advice would be better. Crow gear will make your life easier though.

#3 Your PT is doing something wrong. Fighting too tough monsters? Only 1 healer with no back up? PT adjustment time, I guess. No crow gear will be helping you here since it's a really big problem.

[Icemage]

Re: Crow/Raven v. AF

Crow/Raven isn't really better in XP parties unless you use Curaga or Benediction. Otherwise, AF or any other hat really doesn't matter much for WHM - might as well get some max MP or other stats instead.


Icemage

[Wintry]

Re: Crow/Raven v. AF

The AF is the best gear if you don't want to swap gear. It offers the best compination of +MP and -Emnity. I used it from 50-70 and I never had a problem with hate control.

[Taskmage]

Re: Crow/Raven v. AF

If you never have a problem drawing hate, then the -enmity on your AF is enough for you, so there's no need to sacrifice the mp bonuses on your AF to squeeze in more -enmity. That said, max mp isn't everything, and a lot of the whm AF pieces look underwhelming to me, so you wouldn't be wrong to replace some pieces with equip you like better.

[Deltran]

Re: Crow/Raven v. AF

If you plan on using a big hate gaining spell, skill, etc. Id say marco it in

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: Crow/Raven v. AF

Crow is best kept, IMHO, for level capped stuff.

[Gentoo]

Re: Crow/Raven v. AF

She (the SMN) said that if I had the Crow/Raven set, I could go right for the Cure IV. Do I really need more Enmity- than the Enmity-10 on the AF?

I can't tell if your Summoner was saying to skip th the flash, and just Cure IV, or Flash + Cure IV. Either way I don't particularly care for the suggestion your summoner was making.

Sure, you could go ahead and Cure IV and not flash, but what if your NIN gets interrupted a second time (it happens once in a great while)? Flash + Cure III + Regen II costs 11MP more than Cure IV, but is near guaranteed method for your Ninja to get his/her/it's shadows back up. Cheap insurance.

Even if your summoner was suggesting Flash + Cure IV, I think you end up being more MP efficient with Flash + Cure III + Regen II, and you've given yourself a little more wiggle room in regards to emnity if something else should come up.

Back the question at hand, Crow versus AF. As others have mentioned, the AF doesn't have any standout stats compared with other viable gear -- but the reverse is true also. Sure Crow gear gets you big -Enmity, but no MP bonus, and much less DEF should you manage to attract a monsters attention.

You pretty much already answered your question when you stated:

First of all, the Crow/Raven set has massive Enmity- that I would never generally need.

Since that's all the crow/raven gear offers, it's obviously not a good choice for you.

[Illuminatus]

Re: Crow/Raven v. AF

If you plan on using a big hate gaining spell, skill, etc. Id say marco it in

I don't feel like spending 300k so I can just macro it in sometimes.

As for Gentoo's post, I agree entirely. I was using the Flash + Cure III + Regen II method - which lets the Ninja get his shadows back up AND gives me less hate - and she was complaining...

As for the last quote, I was saying that I hadn't experienced a time when I would've needed it, but it's possible I could've needed it in the future. ^^

[Tirrock]

Re: Crow/Raven v. AF

Enmity becomes less and less of an issue as WHM as you level up. I could probably exp my WHM with +enmity at 75 and the only difference I'd notice is a few MP missing because I'd be wearing +enmity gear.

I did HNM with -2 to -8 enmity for a very very long time. >_>a Unless your tanks are having serious issues (or just suck) you're only going to die when everything else starts going bad (forms of waste hitting the fan!) or to AoE spells. I only found -enmity useful on long, drawn out HNM fights...and on those you can relog anyway.

I'm buying crow beret, but not for my WHM or SMN, but for my MNK. I pull hate more on my level 61 MNK than I do on my WHM or SMN. ._.

[Kyrial Arthian]

Re: Crow/Raven v. AF

Honestly, speaking from personal experience, enmity- is overrated. One time I had a crappy PT in Onzozo, and one fight it was looking like we might wipe. I'd barely cast any spells during the fight, and was ready to Benediction, so I put on the full Crow set and used it. The tank was barely able to get the mob off me before I died, and even then only cuz one or two of the other mages were curing me to keep me from dying. That's only one example, but the one that sticks out most in my mind.

[Taskmage]

Re: Crow/Raven v. AF

Even in that example, if the paladin barely pulled hate off you before you died, then if you didn't have the -enmity gear on you probably would have died.

I started finding -enmity gear useful in the late 30s as a rdm, because mobs started resisting more and my constant spellcasting was getting me hate for the first time. This was not long after the Utsusemi enmity change too. As a blm I could see it making life a lot easier.

For a whm, I could understand it being not as important. Between paladins who are hate masters who can help cure themselves, and ninjas that don't control hate as well but don't require as much curing, if you're being required to cure so much that you're riding the hate line, you're probably in a really bad party to begin with and some -enmity isn't going to help that much. Still, for high hate moves like Benediction, the emergency high level Cure, Flash, it wouldn't hurt to keep around to macro in if you can afford it and have the space.