WHM AF not needed?

[locus]

Re: WHM AF not needed?

*blinks* You don't know that +stats also affects your resist rate? That's pretty surprising. What I'm trying to say here is that with +10 mind, not only do I land silence and the like more often on monsters, they also work better. And yes, I have tried pretty extensively with my Briault and can confirm from personal experience only that weapons are much easier to silence with a Houppelande on than with that Briault.

If you still don't believe that stats affect your resist rate - play black mage and put on all the -int you can, then try nuking an IT monster. Burn can make a HUGE difference in magic resist rates.

Understand now?

Edit: Better yet - get a black mage to cast shock before you try to land Slow, Paralyze, or Silence. I'd like to see you state that you get exactly the same resist rate as before.

Edit Edit: Regarding your VIT problem - Assuming that the monster goes after you, -10 VIT is only a problem if you plan on tanking it for an extended period of time. If you'd accept some advice from me - Don't do it. If you plan to do so, you may find switching armor and to an earth staff increases your survivability rate. And you only need one macro button!

Final Edit just to be absolutely thorough!:

Here's some other information on MND and skill that supports the viewpoint that MND affects resist rate. In case you still don't believe me.

http://whitem.hp.infoseek.co.jp/archive/tactics/mnd.htm

You can see MND helping resist rates here (although 17 skill seems to be having a very large effect on silence - though there were only 12 tests compared to 20)

The tiny mandragora was a silly test because he didn't realize Slow difference between mind is capped at +30 delay.

[Icemage]

Re: WHM AF not needed?

I'm going to agree with kuu here and say that for WHMs, Enfeebling Magic is a more potent factor than MND for landing enfeebles. MND *does* have an effect on resist rates, but it's quite easy for WHMs to hit a point of diminishing returns on MND, even as a Taru with low base MND.

I get noticeably better results on enfeebles using AF1 body piece vs. Errent Houppelande, with 271 Enfeebling Magic; Cleric's Mitts(+15), Healer's Briault(+10), Elite Beret(+4), Enfeebling Torque(+7), level 5 merits(+10).

My resist rates on Sleep and Sleepga and Silence in Dynamis have gone down progressively as I've accumulated more Enfeebling Magic. Without enfeeble gears and merits at 75, I was lucky to break 20% success. Now I'm closer to 80% or better (just got my AF2 hands so this may have improved).


Icemage

[Rones]

Re: WHM AF not needed?

271 Enfeebling Magic

Wow, never seen a whm pump it that high. I would agree though, for whms +enfeebling skill helps more than +mnd. We are already so far behind rdms in enfeebling skill it is rediculous.

[Karinya]

Re: WHM AF not needed?

+skill has much more effect than +stats on resist rates. Every time I'm playing my PLD and see a RDM trying to land silence with his errant houppelande still on, I want to shield bash the RDM... but I can't afford to, because I'm going to need it for the blizzard IV as soon as Mr. Spartoi Sorcerer resists that gimped no-tabard silence attempt. (The ones that don't even use a wind staff are even worse. How many WHMs even own a wind staff to silence with? This is not intended as a criticism of WHMs of course, they have other gear priorities for good reasons.)

Also, skill DOES affect duration: it affects the chance that an enfeeble will wear off early (i.e. a partial resist). When you are dealing with something with a long recast time like Gravity, or when silence wears off while you are casting a refresh and the mob immediately starts thundaga3 with no stunner in pt, partial resists can be very significant. (Especially if you are a WHM with no fast cast traits...) For slow and paralyze, it's no big deal - because slow and paralyze themselves are no big deal. They're useful and mp efficient and you should use them when you can, but they're not going to spell life or death the way Silence does. And increasing their strength a tiny bit is nice - if you don't have any more important priorities to take care of.


To return to the thread subject: AF is not intended to be the best possible gear for that job ever. In some cases it's not even the best possible for all situations at the level you get it (except for some truly awesome pieces like warlock's chapeau). Most AF sets have a couple pieces that are really only good for solo. But you don't have to wear the whole set, and you don't have to wear it all the time. I can't think of any AF piece that is completely useless relative to other gear at the level you can get it. So get it, but don't stop looking at other gear just because you have AF.

[Icemage]

Re: WHM AF not needed?

I can't think of any AF piece that is completely useless relative to other gear at the level you can get it. So get it, but don't stop looking at other gear just because you have AF.

There's a few pieces that are obsolete before you even get them, or are obsolete within a few levels. Evoker's Doublet, most of the Bard AF, etc. It's the exception rather than the rule, but I'd say that most jobs have at most 1-2 pieces of useful AF by the time you hit level 75, and a few (such as bard and dark knight) have none.


Icemage

[kuu]

Re: WHM AF not needed?

There's a few pieces that are obsolete before you even get them, or are obsolete within a few levels. Evoker's Doublet, most of the Bard AF, etc. It's the exception rather than the rule, but I'd say that most jobs have at most 1-2 pieces of useful AF by the time you hit level 75, and a few (such as bard and dark knight) have none.


Icemage

I would have to disagree with you. Brd AF is crappy in it self, but isn't half bad in some situations. Those -enmity are useful, and some HP and vit can't hurt either.

It's what you make of AFs. Sometimes they come in handy, especially these days with CoP caps galore.

Just like the almightly taru blms are the first to die, AoE one shotted, and mpked when raised, because of their low hp endgame way too often. It almost seems like a liablity at times.

[Icemage]

Re: WHM AF not needed?

I don't know of any BRD 75s who haven't turned in their AF1 armors for the storage key item. That alone should speak volumes for just how useful the entire set is.


Icemage

[kuu]

Re: WHM AF not needed?

I've seen my share of brds dust it off for BCNM60, and KS99 most often. Dynamis Windy too.

But this is getting way off whm.

[locus]

Re: WHM AF not needed?

Wow, I thought this topic was dead.

Shield Bash the RDM if you want - but honestly, if you have trouble landing Enfeebling magic spells on your RDM in Dynamis, you'll need a lot more help than just your AF body.

Sure - it can affect resist rate, but with anything likely to resist your enfeebling magic as a white mage, chances are that you shouldn't be the one debuffing it in the first place. In Dynamis - should you as a whm be debuffing when there probably over 6 red mages in the alliance? Screw that - I'll go for -enmity, +mp and +haste. Honestly, a WHM geared out to debuff, when even a BLM has better base skill? What kind of linkshell do you go with?

I'll admit that yes, skill is nice and point for point better than MND, but consider this:

On merit point parties, your resist rate is low enough (and enemies die fast enough) that +enfeebling skill is just a wonderful way to blow 5 inventory slots on +skill swaps. Even half resists happen only like 20% of the time on T and lower.

And on that note - I don't know very many level 75 whms that haven't put their AF1s into permanent storage either. The Briault and Gloves are very very easily replaced with more inventory-space-efficient alternatives.

[Icemage]

Re: WHM AF not needed?

Sure - it can affect resist rate, but with anything likely to resist your enfeebling magic as a white mage, chances are that you shouldn't be the one debuffing it in the first place. In Dynamis - should you as a whm be debuffing when there probably over 6 red mages in the alliance? Screw that - I'll go for -enmity, +mp and +haste. Honestly, a WHM geared out to debuff, when even a BLM has better base skill? What kind of linkshell do you go with?

I'll admit that yes, skill is nice and point for point better than MND, but consider this:

On merit point parties, your resist rate is low enough (and enemies die fast enough) that +enfeebling skill is just a wonderful way to blow 5 inventory slots on +skill swaps. Even half resists happen only like 20% of the time on T and lower.

And on that note - I don't know very many level 75 whms that haven't put their AF1s into permanent storage either. The Briault and Gloves are very very easily replaced with more inventory-space-efficient alternatives.

In Dynamis, there's times when being able to enfeeble is useful even as a WHM, such as tossing the odd Silence to stop Silencega or Paralyga from going off, or just give yourself a fighting chance to survive when something gets annoyed at you using Benediction or Curaga II or whatever and there's so many enemies running amok that there's simply no time to tell people what's trying to turn you into a grease spot.

I also have a much, much better survival rate than my fellow white mages in Sea, where being able to cast Sleep or Sleepga and make it stick is important if you're trying to meet people who are already inside, say, the Garden of Ru'hmet.

The gloves are easily replaced, I agree, but the Briault is unique for WHMs for what it does, and is the only reason why I haven't tossed my entire set into storage.


Icemage