is whm great?

[Brayden]

Re: is whm great?

Enhancing was capped every lvl and mostly from Regen!

/cry SE hates me, i cast haste/regen III like a freak and I can go entire lvling sessions with +0 enhancing skill up ; ;

[Icemage]

Re: is whm great?

/cry SE hates me, i cast haste/regen III like a freak and I can go entire lvling sessions with +0 enhancing skill up ; ;

The trick I found was to resist the temptation to cast Cure I/II on non-tanks that took damage in XP parties. Just slap Regen I/II on them unless you think they're going to draw more hate soon. Did wonders for my enhancing magic skill, enough to keep it capped before I hit the next level each time.


Icemage

[lionx]

Re: is whm great?

I skilled up Healing a little when i was in the 50s by joining Genkai parties and using Cure1 on the undead every now and then..somehow CureI seems to skill up more than CureIII..or maybe its just luck but thats what happened to me.

[Rodin]

Re: is whm great?

70+ Your healing will go up fast, because you'll be doing things like Skill up parties, gods, dynamis, killing Robber crabs solo in kuftal tunnel in order to skill your staff (>_>), but eventually it will be capped. So far, I have enhancing capped out at 215, and healing capped out at 251. (I wear blessed gear, so no skill boosts.)

[Icemage]

Re: is whm great?

70+ Healing Magic is stupidly easy to raise. Get into a few King Ranperre's Tomb XP parties and just toss out an offensive Cure I each battle at the undead (since everything there is undead). You'll cap Healing Magic in a heartbeat, I guarantee it.


Icemage

[TheGrandMom]

Re: is whm great?

The trick I found was to resist the temptation to cast Cure I/II on non-tanks that took damage in XP parties. Just slap Regen I/II on them unless you think they're going to draw more hate soon. Did wonders for my enhancing magic skill, enough to keep it capped before I hit the next level each time.


Icemage

Yes this is exactly what I did. Instead of riping off that Cure II I would do a Regen. Instead of that Cure III, I did a Regen II. I always start the battle off with a regen on the tank. The highest one that I would have at the time. Other than that, the melees or mages would get regens for the most part unless there were nasty aoe's or they grabbed too much hate. Regen is your new best friend! Use it often and it will save you mp!

[Feenicks]

Re: is whm great?

That's my method as well, never Cure when you can Regen. The problem in XP parties is the overzealous RDM/PLD/SMN who doesn't notice the Regen and cures anyway.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: is whm great?

That's my method as well, never Cure when you can Regen. The problem in XP parties is the overzealous RDM/PLD/SMN who doesn't notice the Regen and cures anyway.

OMG that is so aggravating!! LOL I'll be at home and ranting to my husband and son when it happens. They are so used to it now that when they hear me say "AARRRGGHH, this rdm(or other job)", they respond "Yes we know, they cured after you regened someone...."

[locus]

Re: is whm great?

Did wonders for my enhancing magic skill, enough to keep it capped before I hit the next level each time.

I remember that after I got my WHM to 75, when I wanted to cap my enhancing magic skill, I sat down in Lower Jeuno and tele-taxied people for two whole days. Something about Teleport and Warp - they love giving you .2s and .3s. I eventually just set my home point to the crystal in upper jeuno and cast warp repeatedly.

Of course, I should just have done it the easier way and started rdm earlier. -_-

The problem in XP parties is the overzealous RDM/PLD/SMN who doesn't notice the Regen and cures anyway.

I never complain about this because I'd rather they be overzealous than sit on their butts and never cure assist. It's a good habit, even if ill-placed.

Also, being a RDM around good PLDs (you know, the ones that don't bitch about you curing them because they know OMG they can cure people other than themselves if they lose hate! Or they can use something other than cure and provoke to keep hate! Sorry, just ranting about a really stupid habit that some NA paladins I've partied with seem to have acquired recently.) long enough makes you get used to the idea of Convert being instant Cure 4 hate. It's come in useful more times than I thought it would. (Especially before the ranger patch.)

[Karinya]

Re: is whm great?

Ariss: In that case all the things can be done with another RDM...somehow i feel people would want dbl RDM if they can and forgo the WHM.

I wouldn't. WHM+RDM > RDM+RDM. The WHM has full strength protectra/shellra, regen 3, big curagas, cure 5, more -enmity gear options, more +cure potency options (really hard to get aside from the light staff though), Stona (fought any Tavnazian Rams lately, Icemage?) And that's assuming endgame levels, otherwise you can throw in Erase, other -na spells, even haste at 40-47. Oh yeah, and the new improved Divine Seal, RDM/WHM don't get that either. Erasega is sweet. On top of that, the WHM can sub BLM (for conserve MP) or SMN (for MP bonus + auto-refresh + aerial armor) and still keep all their -na spells and curagas and bar-ras.

Pretty much anything you can do with double RDM, you can do better with one RDM and a specialist (like WHM or BLM), or one RDM and one BRD. The first RDM brings a lot to the table. The second RDM brings much less.

You *could* make an argument that SMN + RDM is better than WHM + RDM, against some monsters, if the SMN is good; ditto BRD + RDM. You still lose all the above, but it can be argued that you gain more than you lose in other abilities of those jobs. But SMN and BRD are both rare and many SMN are not so good, and there are a few monsters where you just need WHM, no subsitutes acceptable.

Of course this is assuming unlimited availability of all jobs to use in building your party, which is not often true. But I doubt there is any party setup with two RDM that couldn't be improved by replacing one of them with another job. And certainly there are many situations where replacing WHM with another job will significantly reduce the effectiveness of the party.

I don't want to make this post longer with an extended discussion of WHM's usefulness in alliance/raid content, so I'll just say, you really need some WHMs for HNMs/Dynamis.

Double Post Edited:

The whole point of healing someone is to keep them alive, and letting your tank (or anyone else) lose over 600 HP deliberately is just asking for someone to get turned into hamburger on a special attack.

Experienced WHMs know that the best approach is to try to keep the main tank near to full HPs at all times. For ninja tanks, keeping them full or close to full is a big priority, since their defense is so low that you simply can't afford to leave them below maximum with any degree of safety. For paladin tanks, as long as they have MP to spend, I like keeping them within 250HP of maximum; if they've got MP to spare, I'll usually discuss with them and let them know I'm going to let their HPs dip a bit lower if they want to toss out a Cure 4 on themselves for enmity purposes.

In general, though, the normal approach is to use Regen III and Cure III as much as possible to keep tanks out of danger, and use Cure 5 as a reaction to large chunks of damage.

I think that depends very much on the tank and the mobs. Not every mob has Death Scissors or an equivalent.

Trying to keep the tank near full HP all the time can be very frustrating to a PLD; it can also get you too much hate too early in a fight (the first 30 seconds of a fight are the most dangerous for hate control, usually).

Personally I'm not that high level a WHM, but from the tank (PLD) perspective, there are a lot of monsters where I'm not really worried about going down to 500 HP (especially if it is after a special - and you can learn from experience to estimate how much tp the monster has based on what has happened since its last special use.) Of course on some monsters a cure5 freak will make me nervous, and on a few it could kill me; you have to be prepared to use other heals when necessary too. But to say "the best way is to keep the tank near full" is, at best, overbroad.

If you keep the tank near full (let's say 1100/1200 for a high level PLD - or would you be casting cure2 already at that point?) and he gets hit by a special for 400, you either cure4, or wait a couple swings and cure5. If you had let him get 200-300 below max and not cure3'd right away, you could cure5 right after the special. Cure3 + cure4 is more MP and more hate than cure5 and neither of those scenarios for using it are all that risky for a PLD. Of course if the monster you're fighting can do over half your tank's max HP in one special, things are a bit different (in that case you *should* keep HP up all the time and only cure5 after the killer specials), but that situation is not common for a PLD tank.

[locus]

Re: is whm great?

Trying to keep the tank near full HP all the time can be very frustrating to a PLD; it can also get you too much hate too early in a fight (the first 30 seconds of a fight are the most dangerous for hate control, usually).

Personally I'm not that high level a WHM, but from the tank (PLD) perspective, there are a lot of monsters where I'm not really worried about going down to 500 HP (especially if it is after a special - and you can learn from experience to estimate how much tp the monster has based on what has happened since its last special use.) Of course on some monsters a cure5 freak will make me nervous, and on a few it could kill me; you have to be prepared to use other heals when necessary too. But to say "the best way is to keep the tank near full" is, at best, overbroad.

If you keep the tank near full (let's say 1100/1200 for a high level PLD - or would you be casting cure2 already at that point?) and he gets hit by a special for 400, you either cure4, or wait a couple swings and cure5. If you had let him get 200-300 below max and not cure3'd right away, you could cure5 right after the special. Cure3 + cure4 is more MP and more hate than cure5 and neither of those scenarios for using it are all that risky for a PLD. Of course if the monster you're fighting can do over half your tank's max HP in one special, things are a bit different (in that case you *should* keep HP up all the time and only cure5 after the killer specials), but that situation is not common for a PLD tank.

I agree completely with your post with regards to the WHM+RDM combo, but I have to differ with you on this regard. When I party with good paladins, they can hold hate pretty easily without over-relying on cure. Flash, Shield Bash, provoke, sentinel, warcry and cancelled berserk can make enough hate for exp party purposes as long as you don't take too much damage. All of those abilities produce a significant amount of hate in good +enmity gear. A good paladin in an experience party DOESN'T want to make all the hate he can. He'd never be able to set up SATA that way, because the monster simply won't turn.

Firstly: I think that White mages in general wouldn't cast cure 3 + cure 4. Actually, I haven't cast cure 4 on my white mage for a very very long time. Cure 4 is just begging for unnecessary hate. 3 and 5 work just fine and I don't mind overhealing the tank and wasting 200 hp healed if it means that tanking is easier for the paladin.

Another thing to consider: Using Cure 5 only can be very harzardous to your tank's health because not only does lower HP increase the aggro radius to undead, lag also tends to happen. When latency happens and you DC, if you leave the tank at low hp, the other mages aren't likely going to be too happy (or alive) when you log back on. This isn't going to be good for your tank either if your real life suddenly encounters an emergency, or if your pet interrupts your playing, etcetra. Spell Interruption is also awful when fighting monsters that AE stun or silence. And you just left the pld on 500ish hp.

Secondly: Why is cure 3 and cure 3 better than cure 5? Because hate is spread out over the period of 2 cures. This means that the other mages can help you cure a little and share the hate, so you don't bear the burden of ALL the hate curing. That SMN or BRD or RDM can afford to get more hate - they're certainly not jobs that accrue high amounts of it. It even gives the paladin a chance to get fixed invariable hate - When a paladin gets hit for about 400 points in damage, he will usually start curing himself with cure 3. If you balance it out with your cure 3, the hate is about equal.

Another reason I try never to let the paladin ever get to close to 500 hp for long (assuming 1200-1400ish base hp, which is the norm) is because monsters have a nasty habit of double attacking and scoring criticals. You'd be surprised how much damage they can do in a short period of time if you're unlucky.

Paladins with near-full hp have a habit of using Spirits Within. This does wonders for their hate.

"It can get you too much hate in the... first 30 seconds of the fight" -
I must disagree. The first 30 seconds are actually usually the SAFEST. This is because the paladin will usually create a hate spike in Flash, and SHOULD have provoke to back it up. If his hp drops fast enough that you can steal hate from him in the first 30 seconds with cure, he either needs to wear his armor, take off berserk, or you need to fight easier monsters.

If anything, I think a prolonged fight is more dangerous for white mages. Any white mage doing kirin knows that there's a critical point at which their accumulated hate will make kirin run after them instead of the tanks. Provoke works like a sudden spike in hate and it seems to decrease afterwards. The longer you fight, the more you will need to cure, and consequently, the more dangerous it is for you.

[Icemage]

Re: is whm great?

Stona (fought any Tavnazian Rams lately, Icemage?)

LOL. Not lately, but I have done it a few times, in XP parties and during Amaltheia fights. Stona is important there, but not many people XP in Lufaise Meadows, its a pretty tough camp with little margin for error.

And that's assuming endgame levels, otherwise you can throw in Erase, other -na spells, even haste at 40-47. Oh yeah, and the new improved Divine Seal, RDM/WHM don't get that either. Erasega is sweet.

Not sure I agree with Erasega. Its useful sometimes, but the best use for Divine Veil I've seen so far is using it to cure an entire party with Viruna during fights with Tiamat. Since the MP cost is so outrageous (48MP), it saves a huge amount of MP; additionally it can be used on entire parties even outside your alliance.

You *could* make an argument that SMN + RDM is better than WHM + RDM, against some monsters, if the SMN is good; ditto BRD + RDM. You still lose all the above, but it can be argued that you gain more than you lose in other abilities of those jobs. But SMN and BRD are both rare and many SMN are not so good, and there are a few monsters where you just need WHM, no subsitutes acceptable.

Of course this is assuming unlimited availability of all jobs to use in building your party, which is not often true. But I doubt there is any party setup with two RDM that couldn't be improved by replacing one of them with another job. And certainly there are many situations where replacing WHM with another job will significantly reduce the effectiveness of the party.

True. 2x RDM is overkill in almost all situations, at any level.

Trying to keep the tank near full HP all the time can be very frustrating to a PLD; it can also get you too much hate too early in a fight (the first 30 seconds of a fight are the most dangerous for hate control, usually).

Personally I'm not that high level a WHM, but from the tank (PLD) perspective, there are a lot of monsters where I'm not really worried about going down to 500 HP (especially if it is after a special - and you can learn from experience to estimate how much tp the monster has based on what has happened since its last special use.) Of course on some monsters a cure5 freak will make me nervous, and on a few it could kill me; you have to be prepared to use other heals when necessary too. But to say "the best way is to keep the tank near full" is, at best, overbroad.

If you keep the tank near full (let's say 1100/1200 for a high level PLD - or would you be casting cure2 already at that point?) and he gets hit by a special for 400, you either cure4, or wait a couple swings and cure5. If you had let him get 200-300 below max and not cure3'd right away, you could cure5 right after the special. Cure3 + cure4 is more MP and more hate than cure5 and neither of those scenarios for using it are all that risky for a PLD. Of course if the monster you're fighting can do over half your tank's max HP in one special, things are a bit different (in that case you *should* keep HP up all the time and only cure5 after the killer specials), but that situation is not common for a PLD tank.

Mmm... There are a lot of enemies that can all hit for big damage from level 61 and beyond. Other than Flamingos in sky, Toramas in Onzozo, crabs, and flies in Boyahda/Dragon's Aery, pretty much everything else you fight has big nasty attacks of one sort or another.

Peryton/Valley of Sorrows : Triple Attack
Sand Cockatrice/Cape Teriggan : Hammer Beak
Catoblepas/Bibiki Bay : Stomping
Goblins/Bibiki Bay : Bomb Toss
Tormentor/Den of Rancor : Block Head
Weapons/Ro'Maeve and Shrine of Ru'Avitau : Smite of Rage
Aura Statues/Shrine of Ru'Avitau : Heavy Strike
Demons/Uleguerand Range : Condemnation
Ahrimans/Uleguarand Range : Eyes on Me

Sure, against weaker enemy types, you can afford to let HPs dip down a bit lower and make use of Cure 5's superior efficiency, but it isn't that common, and it is additionally a TERRIBLE habit to get into when you get into HNM/end game situations.


Icemage

[Silmaure]

Hope My 2 Cents can help.

For parties Whm invites in the beggining are pretty often. Invites slow a little after 50 thanks to other jobs being able to do just as well and then some (Rdm, Smn). But it does even out once Raise 2 and Raise 3 come into the picture. Protectra IV and Shellra IV become great party catchers, being that it drains a lot or rdm mp casting on at least 3 ppl. Then there is Flash if used right at high lvls is great, and Regen 3 with paladins is a large plus. Cure V which has been narrowed down in a patch to just Whm has also increased your need. Finally, Erase (lv32 main, lv64 sub) and stona (lv 39 main) are great for party catchers. Erase at a low lvl will get attention, and stona later on if you take on coeurls, tavnazian rams, or other petrifying mobs whm becomes a necessity. Downside to whm in party is its repetition. Protectra, shellra, Regen, haste, cure, cure, cure, rinse and repeat. Another flaw is it's magic capping. Not as bad as summoning skill, but capping divine and healing is hard unless you really try at it. Divine is hard to get up since in parties since Banish/ga and holy are very weak so using in a party is no point. Healing is hard to lvl since the gains are rare... I mean RARE, to lvl it max if you really want to try I would sugest spamming cure when you're Idle. Raise also gets up healing. Enfeebling should cap every lvl from Dia and others. Then there is Enhancing, I have not found one thing that it helps with and mines capped so don't worry about this one.

For Ls events and helping out, whm is a necessity thanks to its wonderful healing capabilities and RAISE 3(everyone will praise your name for giving them Raise3). You will always see a quite a few at endgame events (Sky, HNMS, etc.)

For soloing whm is fun and full of possible recklessness thanks to reraise1-3. Whm can tp anywhere and with a blm sub just warp back, making traveling quests and missions great. Downside in soloing is making money and soloing monsters. The dmg really just isn't there. As someone earlier said he could make 50k/hr gil, which seems ok, but when compared to other jobs, it's less than decent. Hexa Strike does help and SE has come out with some armor to help solo as whm (Blessed, Reverend Mail), but none of this can make up for the extremely low STR and VIT. Their main wep is also slow and not much dmg.

*For a first job I would recommend a good soloing job so once done you can get ready to buy eq and items for next job, to pimp the one just maxed, or other things that need money (everything in the game!!! crafting, food, etc.). Since you're a taru, I would pick rdm, but smn, nin, blm, and bst are good soloers too (Bst I would recommend as a second job since it will take forever to get to 75).

Silmaure - Pandemonium
Woodworking 61
Whm75