Elvn whm?

[silentsteel]

Re: Elvn whm?

Conserve MP of blm subs will more or less equalize refresh anyway.

lol, very true, because you end up saving so much more

[Zempten]

Re: Elvn whm?

/SMN gives nothing but additional max MP until 50/25. Zero useful traits. Zero useful abilities (unless you want to call that short-lived shell/protect that Carbuncle gives "useful"). This amounts to roughly 35MP over /BLM at level 20/10, and bumps to about 75-80MP IF you buy a Magician's Earring (45-50 otherwise) at level 30/15. This seems like a lot of MP until you realize that you get Conserve MP as a job trait from /BLM at level 40, not to mention Elemental Seal to force a stick on Silence or Bind in an emergency at 30.

I agree that /SMN gives no useful abilites at least during lower levels, but Max MP trait is useful UNTIL 40WHM/20BLM. So why not use it for the time being until his WHM is at 40? As far as Elemental Seal to force a stick of Silence is practically pointless as majority of the time your not fighting something that will cast ( Thru the 30-40 range it's common for PTs to be fighting in Kazham, Garliage Citadel, Crawler's Nest and the Altepa Desert which don't have mobs that cast unless you decide to take on those Anticians in which case you usually have a RDM for dispel and who can do Silence more consistantly). As far as Bind, I remeber it being random even with ES.

Max MP is nice, but there are many, many, many other ways to get it. There's a lot of food that provides a hefty +MP boost, but really, spending the money on +MP gear is the way to go. There's quite a large amount of it out there these days, and also a ton of +MP recovered while healing items available at low levels which tends to mitigate the effect of larger MP pools (Baron's Slops, that new +2 hMP wand, plus lots of +hMP foods like Ginger Cookies and Chocomilk).

I agree that there are many many ways to obtain more MP rather then from a sub, but we are talking about a Elvaan WHM who naturally has a lower MP pool then everyone. Boosting those weakness only makes us on par with other races (Galka nowithstanding). I personally like a mix of both +MP and +hMP.

A bigger MP tank just means you can go longer before you have to rest but it doesn't make your spellcasting efficient or make you recover MP any faster than someone with less capacity (just ask any tarutaru). As long as your casting style and MP conservation skills are good enough to get you through XP chain 5, anything above that is wasted.

Yes a bigger MP tank will make resting longer for it, however at the lower levels keeping the XP chain is a combination of your MP conservation skill, casting style, and the OTHER players. You can never be guarenteed all are going to be taking as little damage as possible and keeping the hate to just the tank, especially at lower levels we all know how that goes. A bigger MP tank allows for a cushion against such.

Finally, I'm not saying to stick with /SMN the entire way. I am just saying to alternate between /SMN and /BLM along the way. However there are times to stick with /SMN because the advantage of having a /BLM at the time doesn't outweigh having a /SMN.

P.S: Not a flame btw, it's a discussion ^^ I just want to see from his point of view or perhaps correct my own

[Icemage]

Re: Elvn whm?

Not taken as a flame. I'll tell you though, that with 3 mage jobs over 55 and bard at 75, max MP is rarely an issue once you have "enough". Only times that extra reserve gets called into play is if you get a link or some other silly disaster pops up, then it's nice to have.

Most of the time, though, you end up spending what you can regenerate from resting and Refresh/Ballad/Auto-Refresh effects and staying within that "budget". This mp-recovered-over-time figure doesn't change between the various races, it's dependent only on gear, subjob, food, and the effects of other party members, so once you hit that point of equilibrium, all WHMs are on basically equal footing in an XP PT.

You want to know what the real secret to success pre-40 for WHM is? It's not /SMN. It's not even /BLM. It's Cooking. Go level cooking to 40+, buy some melons in Rabao and juice your way up. 24 bottles of melon juice will get you past any awkward moments when used properly, and uses only 6 inventory slots if you have the skill to make them on-site.

1 bottle of melon juice = 2 mp/3 seconds for 135 seconds = 90MP. That's more than /SMN gives, and costs about 600g to make. If you REALLY want to excel as a low-MP race, juice is worth more than any sub or any gear you can use.


Icemage

[tdh]

Re: Elvn whm?

You want to know what the real secret to success pre-40 for WHM is? It's not /SMN. It's not even /BLM. It's Cooking. Go level cooking to 40+, buy some melons in Rabao and juice your way up. 24 bottles of melon juice will get you past any awkward moments when used properly, and uses only 6 inventory slots if you have the skill to make them on-site.

1 bottle of melon juice = 2 mp/3 seconds for 135 seconds = 90MP. That's more than /SMN gives, and costs about 600g to make. If you REALLY want to excel as a low-MP race, juice is worth more than any sub or any gear you can use.

This is really the best advice anybody can give you. I know I've told a number of mages to do the same thing. I'm surprised more people don't do it. I used to get comments from people when I'd make juice inbetween kills. Juices are a great way to help you excel at your job, impress others, and level your Cooking skill.

[Renfro]

Re: Elvn whm?

Saying that MND is over-rated is going a little far... As a WHM there are a lot of things the high MND will help you with (I've experimented very much with this)

1) Paralyze/slow/silence length and potency: MND effects WHM enfeebles a lot. Of course Enfeebling magic is the main determining factor of whether it actually sticks in the first place, but I've found that the higher my MND was the longer it would last and the more effective it would be.

2) Magical defence: You may not think this is such a big deal, but it has saved my ass a few times... Most memorable is when I got hit with Thunder IV for 154 dmg...

3) Divine Spells: of course Divine magic helps but I've found MND has just as much to do with not only flash potency, but banish damage... with capped Divine and full MND gear I can MB skeletons in KRT for roughly 800 damage with Banish 3 (800 damage for 98 MP is awesome for any WHM).

4) Hexa Strike/Black Halo: Once you get high enough to actually be able to solo efficiently as WHM you'll learn that these 2 WS's have 2 modifiers, STR and MND.. now if you're lucky enough to be Elvaan, you already exceed in both over all other WHM races (my best Hexa to to this date at 300 tp is 1400 damage). So if you're lacking in STR, you can normally get a little more damage if you raise up your MND.

There are other things that MND does, that i have tested in the past, but i just cant think of atm (early in the morning, brains semi-shut off).

Elvaans in my opinion are the best end-game WHM's in the game (of course i'm probably completely biased to this being elvaan, but i've had a lot of time to compare with other races).

My 2 goals in my gear are MND and MP, as most WHM's are. And I've found that there is enough gear out there to make an elvaan's MP put a taru's to shame, but there is not enough gear out there for a taru to have enough MND to put an elvaan to shame.

Sorry for rambling on and on... this is my first post on this site... I just saw that statement and felt i should share my experiences.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Elvn whm?

/poke Hiya Renfro

[Miriamel]

Re: Elvn whm?

Well. As long as you have fun with what you choose, go for any race/job combo you like.

Personally, I chose Elvaan when I first started the game. I started out as monk, but soon realized that I didn't like melee jobs much. Since I already had my choco license and subjob, and at that point in time it was a LOT of work to get all that done, I didn't have the heart to start a new character, and I stayed Elvaan WHM.

White Mage was hence my first job, and it wasn't always easy without the money to buy Astral Rings and other proper equipment, and having to farm up my RSE manually.... in the dunes however, I got introduced to juices and pies, and they were my best friends. It's true, food makes up for so much at lower level.

However, because I had a lot of people pick on me for my race/job (it was a big issue right after NA release.. I have no clue why), I've always been a bit of an MP freak. However, MP isn't hard to come by if you're willing to spend a bit of money on it.


That's my WHM MP at 75... add another 10 now since I finished another merit. And it's more than enough for everything, even end-game wise.

If you want to play an Elvaan, play an Elvaan. If you prefer a different race, play that instead. It can all be done successfully.

[Renfro]

Re: Elvn whm?

/poke Hiya Renfro

hey!

[Icemage]

Re: Elvn whm?

MND is "mostly" meaningless to WHMs at 75. Unless you're placed in the main enfeebling role (sometimes happens, if you're in a PT without a RDM), you're never casting anything other than Dia.

Flash potency. I've stacked on tons (+50 or so) MND, and it doesn't impact Flash in any appreciable way. It still fades pretty much whenever it wants, and never lasts more than 10 seconds or so, usually less if the monster is anything close to my level. Also tested with Divine Magic gear. Similarly disappointing results.

Enfeeble potency: Again, I've tested with +52 MND gear. Enfeebles are stronger, but still enormously inconsistent at 75 (and I have +38 enfeebling magic from gear and merit points plus all matching elemental staves). Without that +skill gear, my enfeeble chance drops through the floor.

Hexa/Black Halo: Added damage is nice here, but if you're solo you've got more important stats to worry about that MND. Maybe swap in some extra MND gear when you WS, but that's about it.

MND also has a (very) tiny effect on cure potency at 75. Depending on how much MND I'm stacking, I find that my Cure III's heal anywhere from 232 to 236 with a Healing Staff and a Noble's Tunic.

Re: Thunder IV for 154 damage. MND has nothing whatsoever to do with black magic nukes. I've been hit for 98 damage by Burst before, with no Stoneskin up. It really depends on what's casting it, what your elemental resistance is, and to a lesser extent, what your INT is (not MND), plus whatever MDEF+ you may have from traits and gear. The only nukes MND helps with defensively are Banish spells.


Icemage

[Yossar]

Re: Elvn whm?

MND may have little effect, but if someone wants to be an good WHM as an Elvaan they can do it. Skill is much more important.

[Jokerboy1]

Re: Elvn whm?

Alrite thanx everyone.. And thanks alot to you icemage.. lol u really are the Brain of Knowledge
=D

[Miriamel]

Re: Elvn whm?

Ah, MND and healing skill have quite an effect on Cure V, since it's not capped per se.

[kuu]

Re: Elvn whm?

Ah, MND and healing skill have quite an effect on Cure V, since it's not capped per se.

It matters very little by the time you get cureV per se as well :sweat:, great to have but on anything that requires you to spam it..is how would you say...will have a limited role in.

Reason I never needed to even think much on how much C5 cures.

[Miriamel]

Re: Elvn whm?

Well, sure, that goes for regular parties, but in HNM - especially at wyrms - I use Cure V quite frequently, as matter of fact. I never said it was a necessity, but if you can, it's always good to boost these things, no?

[Renfro]

Re: Elvn whm?

I think cure potency is very important, especially when it comes to galka's or monks.... having cure 5 do 780 (I think my lowest) and 820 (I think my highest, my cure 5's are completely random, i'm just pulling these numbers out of my head) can make a big difference when it comes to MP conservation. Whether or not your percentage of hitting the bigger numbers has anything to do with your MND i dont know, I havent tested it.