WhiteMage /slap Do you need it?

[Irinicus]

OMG I am rolling of the floor laughing very hard right now. First of all the equip you stated earlier in a post sounded like they were necessities that you had to have, so thats why I said what I said. Also I never said that AM was a necessity and let me tell you something, between lvls 50-60 when you get AM spells, they are the best to use if done right. At those lvls yes they are worth the mana cost. Higher than 60 no cause thats when you get access to tier 3-4 and -ga3 spells. But even then AM is great to MB off of. But thats a moot and not a necessary point in this thread. So you never answered my question did you, I asked if I came up to you and asked you for a tele, would you? I didn't say anything about you being a tele-whore, I'm just in need of a port and you are there?

Also when that person asked for a raise, did you ever take into consideration that they may be foreign and dont know too much English? Or did you ever respond and say that its customary to say please or may I have it please? No? Then you are just as rude too. I also D2 everyone that asked and asks me too and I dont get paid for most of them nor do I complain about it. Raises, I believe should not be paid for but if they donate money then thats fine. There is unwritten things in this game that should not have their price increased, like D2's and tele's for instance.

Oh by the way, PLD's and Gluttony sword, they dont have to buy it, they can camp it with some friends. I know this to be true cause my linkshell has camped them 3 times and the sword dropped twice. Not a hard thing to camp either, if you dont know how to, I can tell you real easy like.

You are a sad lil WHM. I'm sure you have hardly no friends with that piss poor I wont help attitude. How pathetic. I actually feel sorry for ppl like you.

Heres a question I realllllllllly want you to answer, why should the price of tele's go up at all??????????????????????????????????


Thank you Grandmom, you are amongst what I hope not to be and thats the rare few WHM's that like to keep things they way theu are and not conform to the life of Greedy WHM's, like Neelon. I am proud and honored to hear that from you Grandmom, I actually respect your posts greatly since I seen you start posting.

[TheGrandMom]

Originally posted by Irinicus
1) ...and let me tell you something, between lvls 50-60 when you get AM spells, they are the best to use if done right.

2) Also when that person asked for a raise, did you ever take into consideration that they may be foreign and dont know too much English?

3) You are a sad lil WHM. I'm sure you have hardly no friends with that piss poor I wont help attitude. How pathetic. I actually feel sorry for ppl like you.

1) I have a 61 blm. I used Burst and Freeze only. This is my 2nd blm I've leveled and those were the only to AM's I have ever used. They are also the cheapest ones. I paide 3k for Freeze and 7k for Burst. So to say AM is expensive for a blm is asinine. You don't need the expensive ones, its only to show off.

2) Please is translatable.

3) Making statements like this just shows how immature you are. It's obvious you can't debate an issue in an adult manner.

Edit: Posted after you did your edit. I appreciate your support for my posts but I don't appreciate the way your attacking people over a silly issue as this.

[neelon]

Originally posted by Irinicus
OMG I am rolling of the floor laughing very hard right now. First of all the equip you stated earlier in a post sounded like they were necessities that you had to have, so thats why I said what I said. Also I never said that AM was a necessity and let me tell you something, between lvls 50-60 when you get AM spells, they are the best to use if done right. At those lvls yes they are worth the mana cost. Higher than 60 no cause thats when you get access to tier 3-4 and -ga3 spells. But even then AM is great to MB off of. But thats a moot and not a necessary point in this thread. So you never answered my question did you, I asked if I came up to you and asked you for a tele, would you? I didn't say anything about you being a tele-whore, I'm just in need of a port and you are there?

Also when that person asked for a raise, did you ever take into consideration that they may be foreign and dont know too much English? Or did you ever respond and say that its customary to say please or may I have it please? No? Then you are just as rude too. I also D2 everyone that asked and asks me too and I dont get paid for most of them nor do I complain about it. Raises, I believe should not be paid for but if they donate money then thats fine. There is unwritten things in this game that should not have their price increased, like D2's and tele's for instance.

Oh by the way, PLD's and Gluttony sword, they dont have to buy it, they can camp it with some friends. I know this to be true cause my linkshell has camped them 3 times and the sword dropped twice. Not a hard thing to camp either, if you dont know how to, I can tell you real easy like.

You are a sad lil WHM. I'm sure you have hardly no friends with that piss poor I wont help attitude. How pathetic. I actually feel sorry for ppl like you.

Heres a question I realllllllllly want you to answer, why should the price of tele's go up at all??????????????????????????????????

What I said is that everything comes at a cost, if you are serious about the job. You don't need it to perform the job, but it makes you perform the job better. It enhances performance so to speak.

And no, I don't teleport people unless I know them real well, as I stated before, because it is not worth my time and I got better thing sto do. My friends know this, the LS knows this, I know this. Let the teleport-jockeys take care of the random teleport requests.

That person didn't ask for a raise. There wasn't one single question mark in the 2 tells I received. That makes it no question for me, but more a demand, and this kitty White Mage doesn't do demands. I don't care if the person was EU/NA/JP/whatever, the word {please} is also in the auto-translator. Common courtesy for t3h win. Raises should normally not be paid for, I agree on that though. I say normally, because sometimes I get requests from halway across the globe, or in a very remote or dangerous area, don't expect me to heed that call.

O, and I do know how to get the Gluttony Sword. Spawn the 6 or 7 skeletons in Eldieme Necropolis (using a flint stone at the candles) and hope it drops.

Same goes for all other stuff basically (astrals, spells, belts, materials for items like Sniper Rings, Haubergeon etc). Camp the BCNM, mobs etc that drop it. Could take a whole lot of time and luck though.

And I really don't know where you get the idea I have a piss poor attitude. I help a lot of people in the game, just not with teleports, because THEY ARE NOT WORTH MY DAMN TIME. There are a lot of ways to help people actually, do some research on it.

Am I sad? Really? Ask my friends on the server, I have lots of them. No need to feel sorry for me though, because I am not.

And about your last question, about the prices of teles, why they should go up? Because every other thing players try to sell to other players has inflated, due to both gilcampers and greedy players. They both are at fault for a botched economy.

Here's a question I realllllllllly want you to answer, why should the price of tele's not go up if the rest of the stuff we need (food, equipment, crafting materials etc) does go up ??????????????????????????????????

O, and you can pick yourself up from the floor again by the way, no need to be lying down there all day.

[Irinicus]

First of all Grandmom, this debate(bashing as you put it) is between me and Neelon and is about to stop with me apologizing about it getting personal, secondly your views on AM spells other than freeze and burst are exactly that your views and they may not and probably don't reflect that on all of us. Whether a BLM can do with out them or not is the same thing as I said about astral rings and gluttony sword, all of that is NOT mandatory stuff, its just stuff to have because other ppl hve/had them. We are all guilty of gettting things and doing things because others have/had them or did it. But this is not the point of this thread, the point is Tele prices. Oh and I am very much the adult thank you, who are you to say I am not?

But no more bashing ppl for me, I will stick to the issue at hand. No one has provided any REAL reason to inflate prices of tele besides the reason of because everything else is inflated why not tele's. I'm sorry I still do not see this as a real reason whatsoever. Tele's are not items in the AH and therefore should not be subjected to inflated prices. The only reason they are getting inflated is because you have lazy WHMs that dont want to farm their money but rather would tele-whore for outraegous amounts. If you say something like 'Why cant they raise the price after all its their time and/or MP they are wasting on you' then I will respond with this, 'If they are worried about time or MP then don't Tele-Whore. Time and MP are free things, meaning you cannot buy or sell them, so why try to use that as an excuse'.

[TheGrandMom]

I realize this is a passionate subject for some people but lets try to keep the insinuations to a minimum please. We can discuss this and give our opinions without having to resort to name calling or put downs.

Originally posted by Irinicus
Oh and I am very much the adult thank you, who are you to say I am not?

But no more bashing ppl for me, I will stick to the issue at hand. No one has provided any REAL reason to inflate prices of tele besides the reason of because everything else is inflated why not tele's. I'm sorry I still do not see this as a real reason whatsoever.

Please read my post correctly. I never said you were not an adult. I said you couldn't debate in an ADULT MANNER. Totally different.

As for your reasoning, then you don't mind if your wages stay the same in real life while the prices of everything go up? Right? Because that is exactly what your stating about the game. Tele'ing is some whm's income.

Originally posted by Irinicus
Time and MP are free things, meaning you cannot buy or sell them, so why try to use that as an excuse'.

You know this bothers me when people say that time is free. Time is not free for anyone regardless of what job they play. If it were then people wouldn't complain about bad parties. Why do they? Because their time is valuable to them and they don't want to waste it in a bad pt. Don't blame them one bit. Whm's is valuable and they don't want to waste it making piddling amounts of gil if they're lucky and there are people that want teles or don't waste their time getting food and/or signet. I totally understand it now and I'm much more generous and understanding to tele'ers when I lvl another job. When I want my tele, I'm ready to go right then! I ask the whm their price and if I don't want to pay it I say "Sorry I'm going to take the airship/chocobo" and disband. I don't argue with them, try to cheat them, or call them names because I have choices. My time is valuable and so is everyone's in this game.

[neelon]

There are White Mages that use teleports for their main source of income. Nothing wrong with that, it's just not my way of making money, as it doesn't cut it for what I want for my jobs. They provide the service, and they set a price for that. If they go to high, and don't get customers anymore, they will lower bit by bit automatically.

Also I still don't see why Tele or D2 prices can't follow inflation. Life becomes more expensive, so in order to pay for life, income must increase. 1 + 1 = 2 usually. I haven't seen any real valid point as to why Teleport or D2 prices shouldn't follow inflation.

The only real unwritten rule a White Mage (or Red Mage / Paladin / subbed White Mage for that matter) should follow (in my opinion) is don't demand a price for raising someone. If they tip you, fine, by all means, take it, but never demand it.

[Irinicus]

Why you mixing RL wages with a game? The principle is loosly based on the same thing I agree but by increasing the price for tele or D2, you are making it extremely hard for ppl that can barely afford the base price of these services. Sooooo how are you helping ppl, when in fact you are hurting others in their pocket area. If tele'ing is the WHM's main source of income, what is the BLM's? don't say D2 cause thats a lie. Why are you contributing to the economic woes of the game? Gil is hard to come by especially at lower lvls and thats do to the fact that there are overly inflated prices in the AH. Also did any one take in account the recent jump in choco prices could also be because the whms are refusing to port for the standard fare? We have a no win situation here, we can debate this til the cows come home, neither of us will gain anything from this. In the end its up to the whms on how much they pay for it, I am merely suggesting dont make the new standard of higher prices else you are putting more ppl in further debt which causes more ppl to farm alot taking them away from the actual playing of the game and then they will loose interest in it and switch to a game like WoW, Ewwww perish the thought there.

[Irinicus]

Time may be valuable but you cannot put a price tag on it? If so then how much? 1gil, 100gil, 100000000000gil? Whats the standard amount of gil for time? Please answer that for me.

[neelon]

We have an ingame economy which is inflating, so income should as well. Just as in real life.

Also why blame the White Mages for the increased chocobo price? Why refuse to pay a 750 gil (just an example price)Teleport-Dem/Holla/Mea and still hop on a 3k+ bird? This does not add up in my book. You loose more money, and it could take you longer to get to your destination.

How about this one… A friend of mine is playing a high level Red Mage. Up until level 50, all he did was walk on a chocobo from Bastok/San d’Oria/Windurst to Jeuno , walk from Jeuno back to these cities. You must be wondering why he never asked for a tele. Well, I asked him once. His reply was “Why spend 500 gil to teleport from Bastok to Dem when you can get a Chocobo for 60 gil?�. When I asked why he walked from Jeuno to the big cities and not take a teleport Dem/Holla/Mea or even an airship for only 200 gil. “Simply because I need to buy that Dispel spell for my next level and so far I only got 7k. I work 40 hours a week and when I log on, all I ever have time for is leveling with the static. I don’t have the time and money to raise my crafting skills.� That’s a completely different way of thinking, is it not?

T3h cow...

[neelon]

Originally posted by Irinicus
Time may be valuable but you cannot put a price tag on it? If so then how much? 1gil, 100gil, 100000000000gil? Whats the standard amount of gil for time? Please answer that for me.

There is no fixed (or unwritten if you like it) pricetag for it, the same as for every item on the AH in fact. Items and services are priced for what we would like in return for the investment (be it time, or crafting costs, or whatever).

[Rones]

BULLSHIT! Whm's are not losing time

Irinicus, you have no idea of how economics work do you. I could spend my hour farming elementals any place and get 15-20k an hour and not have to deal with people. Or I can sit in jeuno and tele people for 5-10k an hour. That is how time is money. Every minute I'm in the game is time I could have spent earning money. Everyone looks for the way that will maximize that money vs time invest.

300-400% inflation has hit all items, eg: vermillion has gone from 1mill->4.5mill. That means the value of 500 gil has gone from 500->~125. Who would have ever bothered doing teles back before the big inflation for 125? No one, its a waste of time and remember time is money.

you are putting more ppl in further debt which causes more ppl to farm alot

Wrong. You are getting 2-3 times the money for farming items that you use too. So they are already getting less in debt from our teles than they ever have. Just look at how earth crystals have gone from 200 a stack to 2000k a stack. :sweat: Lowbies just increased their income by 1,000%, yet you don't want whms to increase their rates by 100%.

[TheGrandMom]

Originally posted by Irinicus
Why you mixing RL wages with a game? The principle is loosly based on the same thing I agree but by increasing the price for tele or D2, you are making it extremely hard for ppl that can barely afford the base price of these services. Sooooo how are you helping ppl, when in fact you are hurting others in their pocket area.

Originally posted by Irinicus
Thats the same as this: Person A jumps off bridge, so why can't I jump too.

Well since you can't jump off a bridge in game, why give analogies about real life? Because virtual life and real life emulate one another thats why. So my point about you not needing your wages raised in real life is a fine example of whm's not raising the tele prices. In both instances, they are your wages. In both instances, your doing it to pay for things. And in both instances, there is inflation going on. So actually it was quite a valid analogy.

As far as helping anyone, tele'ers are doing a job not helping. They get paid for a service, hence its a job. Helping is when I get a request from someone for a tele when I'm not tele'ing. Or a request for a raise when I'm not in their pt. That is helping. Doing tele's to make money is a job.

Originally posted by Irinicus
Time may be valuable but you cannot put a price tag on it? If so then how much? 1gil, 100gil, 100000000000gil? Whats the standard amount of gil for time? Please answer that for me.

Everyone puts a different price tag on their time so all answers will vary. Since I'm a mother, grandmother, wife, and I do pro bono work for charity, my time is quite valuable thank you very much. It's definately worth more than sitting for hours in Jeuno putting up with people whining about not having any gil for a tele, not having enough gil for a tele, wanting a discount, saying afk and coming back 10 mins later to say they don't need a tele, doing a group tele for 2500 and waiting 20 mins for everyone to get food/signet and change jobs, etc etc etc

Well off to my static. It was nice chatting with everyone and I hope that someday everyone will realize that tele'ing is not a lucrative business and be kinder to their tele'er.

[Irinicus]

I see basic economics, dont get me wrong there, but prices on your server do not reflect prices on mine. Earth crystals are still floating between 500-1k a stack. Now say it went for 1k a stack, how much time did it take that player to get a stack and have it sold? Then consider the price of a tele-mea going for 1k. Now that person just wasted his valuable time farming 12 earth crystals on 1 tele. If the tele-mea were to stay at 500, then that person made 500gil and therefore is not too much of a waste on their time. I know the example is using small amount of gil and I know there are other things they can farm for, but I am just using an example to prove my point. I don't know bout you all, but I am not wasting my valuable time farming items to throw it all away on inflate ports or rising choco's.

[DarkPoet]

Ladys and Gents i went off yesterday after i posted this and took my 32WHM to 39 and got the teles and everything and all i can say is its soooo not worth teleporting people for gil because of the current economy. It is great and all that people have kep the tradition off 500gil to crags 1k to non but this was also durring the time you could buy something for 500gil. I remember when i started the game in one of my first teles i asked the mage what she was doing with all of her tele gil. Her reply was that she was doing the teles to buy Leeping Boots... can you see someone doing that now? You would have to sit there and non stop tele for a month to pay for them now. If the WHM decide to increase the price i have no problem. They just gotta do a shout letting you know before hand. I could see 1k crags and 1.5k non crags.

You spend alot of time sitting there and waiting on the asshat to go get signet and come back just to go n the moghouse -,-;

So after reading yalls posts and doing it myself my opinion has done a complete 360.

I still wouldnt ask for tips or charge someone over 500gil if i had not shouted about the price increase

[Rones]

Thank you for seeing the light DarkPoet.

mine. Earth crystals are still floating between 500-1k a stack. Now say it went for 1k a stack, how much time did it take that player to get a stack and have it sold?

People don't farm crystals just for the crystals, they get them while exping low lvl jobs. Still those earth crystals have gone from 200 a stack to 1k a stack (more on other servers), that's an increase of 500%. Inflation has occured you can't deny that. 500 gil is worth a fraction of what it use to be when 500 became the standard. So how can you say it should remain the same?

Never before have you been able to earn such large amounts of money in this game (yet it is worth less when you go to buy items). A 500 gil tele in the old days was way more expensive than a 1k gil tele now due to inflation. If you want to complain about teles being 1k now, you can not accept that 500 was a good price in the past. 5,000 gil in the past bought 2.5 fire crystal stacks, now you are lucky to get one stack with 5k. 1k teles now are cheaper than 500 teles in the past.