Motivation past 72?

[Dux]

Hmm

I too am looking for reasons to play past level 70 and I am not very impressed with what I hear is available. I must be in a small minority of player on FFXI who doesn't like camping HNM.

Dynamis sounds interesting but I have timezone issues for Dynamis. So apart from dynamis is there anything else to do (I don't camp, its too boring).

[Rones]

By the time you reached 75 and got it though Nix it would be worthless. You would already have such a huge exp buffer from lvl 71 (the point where you would lose errant gear) that it would hardly matter if you got raise 2 or 3.

[inspyral]

If you don't want reraise 3 and the best equipment you want to be able to wear is Errant gear, then stay at 72. End of story. If you think you might want to HNM or do Dynamis runs, it's generally a good idea to max your level in order to make sure your stats are as high as they can be. Most LS hosting Dynamis runs won't even let you lot on something your level isn't high enough to use, but again, that's only an issue if you want to participate in Dynamis and want the prospective AF2 that drops there. You may also get tired of doling out R3's when you're only getting an R2 yourself from reraise2. The decision is entirely yours, and you keep bringing up the point of "well, getting to 75 is like an xxxK xp buffer for 72", and if you feel that way, then nothing anyone can say will make you chnge your mind. Some people like to be the best they can be at their given job, and not having your stats as high as they can be would definitely hinder that.

[TheImpKing]

I agree, WHM's need more things in the end-game.

I just picked up the Errant gear (It feels wierd NOT to be wearing AF) for lvl 72, and the only thing left to throw gil at is Reraise 3. My wallet is loving this, as it allows me to actually spend gil on a craft, which is what I've been wanting to do for a while.

As for lvl 75, I want to reach it simply because it'll make me a more powerful WHM. And I'm sure some WHM spells will be unlocked soon, like Diaga 2 or Banish III. I was mad during the Maat fight because Maat was casting spells I couldn't cast back!:mad:

[Pillow]

Just the pride to be able to be level 75 is my motivation.
To be honest, I dont know that many people that think about what more they will have at 75, they just want to be 75, to be the best they can be and look at their character and say, hey, I've hit the level cap

[Rones]

If you think you might want to HNM or do Dynamis runs, it's generally a good idea to max your level in order to make sure your stats are as high as they can be...Some people like to be the best they can be at their given job, and not having your stats as high as they can be would definitely hinder that.

What stats are you talking about? Stats are pretty much irrelevent to whms. A lvl 60's cure 3 does the same as a lvl 75's. Outside exp you will never be enfeebling, so mnd doesn't matter anymore either. Only thing you are gaining stat wise of importance is 20-25 mp, but even that shrinks in importance outside exping (doesn't even matter much in there at this lvl since good whm's don't dip that low).

Most LS hosting Dynamis runs won't even let you lot on something your level isn't high enough to use, but again, that's only an issue if you want to participate in Dynamis and want the prospective AF2 that drops there.

As for dynamsis, I'm already in 2 dynamsis ls and they don't care if you are high enough lvl for the item. They just limit you on going for one job's gear per run (eg: can only do whm and not whm, brd, & blm at the same time). No one in the ls has even seen whm af drop yet, so its not even a factor really (3 rng hats on dynamsis jeuno tonight :sweat: ).

I agree, WHM's need more things in the end-game.

I'm really starting to think that is the truth. I was hoping there was something I was missing for end-game, but I guess that isn't the case.

[Nixles]

Well, if getting errant was your objective from the start, then I guess you're ok at 72.

Like someone said, I want to reach level 75 not only for re-raise III, but because... it's the highest we can go in this game. And I want it. I think I'll be able to help people more when I'm 75. I think. I hope.

[inspyral]

Originally posted by Rones
What stats are you talking about? Stats are pretty much irrelevent to whms. A lvl 60's cure 3 does the same as a lvl 75's. Outside exp you will never be enfeebling, so mnd doesn't matter anymore either. Only thing you are gaining stat wise of importance is 20-25 mp, but even that shrinks in importance outside exping (doesn't even matter much in there at this lvl since good whm's don't dip that low).

The main stat you'll be lacking in, in addition to MP, would be healing skill. While you may feel this is a small deficiency, it does make a difference with your cures. Not having you enhancing skill will also affect such spells as Stoneskin, and having Stoneskin go down at a critical time may mean the difference between survival and a total whipe. As for "good whm's don't dip that low", the mp difference may seem trivial, but again, not all situations are ideal, and you won't always have that refresh or ballad to rely on. For example, a pull doesn't go as planned, and you're spamming cures left and right to keep people from dying. Your mp does dip that low, regardless of the fact that you may or may not be a "good whm", and you go to toss a C4 or 5 on your tank, when you get that oh-so-friendly "____ does not have enough mp to cast Cure X" message. By they time you see that message and go to your next highest cure, your tank could be eating dirt, and the rest of the party's chance for survival will go down accordingly. Again, you may say "well, all my parties are top-notch, and we wouldn't allow something like that to happen", to which I would say that nothing ever takes place in a vacuum, and unforseen variables can and will occur which will derail even the best laid plans.

Originally posted by Rones
As for dynamsis, I'm already in 2 dynamsis ls and they don't care if you are high enough lvl for the item. They just limit you on going for one job's gear per run (eg: can only do whm and not whm, brd, & blm at the same time). No one in the ls has even seen whm af drop yet, so its not even a factor really (3 rng hats on dynamsis jeuno tonight ). :sweat:

If that is the case for your Dynamis runs, consider yourself lucky. However, given the admittedly low drop rate of WHM AF2, I wouldn't be surprised if one, if not all your Dynamis LS's revise their rules to prevent AF2 going to people who can't use them. This is beside the point however, if you have no intention of going past 72, since it would be an utter waste for you to lot on those items anyway, and if the leaders of said Dynamis events were aware of that, I'm sure they wouldn't necessarily want you lotting on items others could be putting to good use.

Again, if you want to stay at 72, more power to you, have fun. I myself never found xp to be that big of a chore, and I even took the time to cap my xp for 75, in preparation for the off chance of the level cap being raised again. Not to equate job level with excellence, but maxing out your level does show that you are invested in your given job and have the dedication to take it to its highest limits. If 72 is the highest plateau you wish to attain, so be it. If that's how you feel, no one can persuade you otherwise.

[Rones]

The main stat you'll be lacking in, in addition to MP, would be healing skill. While you may feel this is a small deficiency, it does make a difference with your cures.

Not really. The only cure it would affect is cure 5. Mine currently does 686 with light staff. Sure, if I had more healing skill it might do a little more (I think Icemage said a little while back his did around 705 ~240 skill). The funny thing is my healing skill is only at 216 out of a 261 cap for lvl 72. So raising my cap to 276 with lvl 75 makes no difference.

As for enhancing the difference in caps between 72 and 75 is 229 and 240. I remember Applepie posted the formula for stoneskin a while back, and I think 11 skill points would make a difference of about ~15-20 extra absorbtion. Nothing worth writing home about. Outside exp situations (eg: dynamsis and hnm) I find myself never getting hit unless a wipe out is on the way, which in that case it won't matter what your stats are.

This is beside the point however, if you have no intention of going past 72, since it would be an utter waste for you to lot on those items anyway, and if the leaders of said Dynamis events were aware of that, I'm sure they wouldn't necessarily want you lotting on items others could be putting to good use.

Why would I even go if they weren't going to let me lot? They would lose half their members if they said you can't lot if you can't equip it yet because no one would waste there time or money going. If I managed to snag a piece of whm af2 I would probably lvl until I could equip it as I would then have some motivation to go past 72.

but maxing out your level does show that you are invested in your given job and have the dedication to take it to its highest limits.

And as I've explained 72 appears to the reach the limit for whm's effectiveness. Short of af2, which is non existent, there isn't much more to improve your character with (Unless you buy the 10mill nobel's tunic). 120k+exp is a lot to earn just for the look of 75 instead of 72.

[Lone Dragon]

Merit Points, git.

[inspyral]

Originally posted by Rones
Not really. The only cure it would affect is cure 5. Mine currently does 686 with light staff. Sure, if I had more healing skill it might do a little more (I think Icemage said a little while back his did around 705 ~240 skill). The funny thing is my healing skill is only at 216 out of a 261 cap for lvl 72. So raising my cap to 276 with lvl 75 makes no difference.

As for enhancing the difference in caps between 72 and 75 is 229 and 240. I remember Applepie posted the formula for stoneskin a while back, and I think 11 skill points would make a difference of about ~15-20 extra absorbtion. Nothing worth writing home about. Outside exp situations (eg: dynamsis and hnm) I find myself never getting hit unless a wipe out is on the way, which in that case it won't matter what your stats are.

If your reasoning is "my healing skill, as it is, is so far below cap that the skill level at 75 is irrelevant", then your argument really holds no water. Assuming you eventually cap your healing skill, you would notice a difference between 72 and 75. If I remember correctly, my Cure V does approx 730-740 with capped healing skill(289 or 299), AF hands, and light staff.

In terms of enhancing skill, Stoneskin isn't the only spell it has a bearing on. The entire Ba- line is based on enhancing skill, and in some situations is even more important than Stoneskin, since a couple points can mean the difference between a spell doing massive damage, or being resisted entirely. Again, if you feel the difference is negligable, that's your opinion, but the fact remains there is a difference.

Originally posted by Rones
And as I've explained 72 appears to the reach the limit for whm's effectiveness. Short of af2, which is non existent, there isn't much more to improve your character with (Unless you buy the 10mill nobel's tunic). 120k+exp is a lot to earn just for the look of 75 instead of 72.

Again, I disagree with this. You're essentially saying that at 72 WHM attains all the useful attributes and stats, and that leveling further is a waste of time. Assume any other given job, say PLD, gets their best reasonably attainable(non-cursed, non-AF2, non-rediculously priced) equipment at 72. Would you then say that it is futile to level a PLD to 75? I think most would say no. One might argue that the VIT and DEF differences between 72 and 75 is negligible, as you have argued that WHM stats are negligible, but I would still say I'd rather have a 75 PLD tanking Nidhogg or Aspi, or the beast gods, than a 72 PLD. You may counter with "well, PLD stats matter more becasue they take hits, and whereas a WHM doesn't." True, but a WHM is responsible for keeping a tank up and running, and the difference in cure potency between uncapped 72 and capped 75, while you may think it negligible, does make a difference. Where the lower lvl PLD takes more dmg per hit, the lower lvl WHM also cures less hp per cast, and that is where we draw the parallel argutment. If this example isn't quite to your liking, then let's try one that's even more relatable. Let's assume I'm leveling Ninja as a sub for a melee job at 75. Obviously I want to take Ninja to 37 for Utsusemi:Ni, but my Warrior sub(used while leveling Ninja) only needs to be lvl5 for provoke, lvl10 for DEF boost, and lvl15 for berserk. Would it then be ok for me to play as NIN37/WAR15? Sure, it can be done, but most would consider that rather gimped. True, I gain no useful abilities taking WAR to 18, but I do gain slightly better melee stats. Now if we apply that to a main job, sure, the stats you gain from going to 75 may be of little consequence in your eyes, but they do make a difference.

In terms of equipment, AF2 and Noble's Tunic aren't the only things available to a WHM, and even if they were, I don't feel equipment alone should be the only motivator for leveling a job to its full potential. In other words, equipment isn't the only thing that can "improve your character", so taking any job to 75 is never merely for the "look". Again, if you feel that xxxK xp is to much trouble to be as good as you can be, then that's your own choice. People have laid out their reasons for wanting to take their jobs to 75, and if you don't feel that it's something you want or nêd to do, then that's the end of the story.

[Rones]

I'm kind of disappointed that you are comparing whm to melees. Lvls make worlds of differnce for melees. If whm cures had accuracy issues based on healing skill like melees have accuracy issues based on their combat skill I would most definitly agree we should get that capped...but we don't. A lvl 30 whm can cure hp just like a lvl 75 whm, but a lvl 30 war can't do anything to a lvl 70 mob like a lvl 75 war could. While a lvl 30 whm can't do as big of cures, he wouldn't be healing for 0 and missing with all his cures like a 30 war. It is like comparing apples and oranges.

One might argue that the VIT and DEF differences between 72 and 75 is negligible, as you have argued that WHM stats are negligible, but I would still say I'd rather have a 75 PLD tanking Nidhogg or Aspi, or the beast gods, than a 72 PLD

A pld's vit and def matter a great deal. Every lvl this is going up and comes into play in every fight. Of course that matters. I said these things for whms only, so please don't try to apply them to melees, they work completly different.

If your reasoning is "my healing skill, as it is, is so far below cap that the skill level at 75 is irrelevant", then your argument really holds no water. Assuming you eventually cap your healing skill, you would notice a difference between 72 and 75.

That's the thing, I don't forse myself ever reaching the cap. Right now I'm averging .5 of healing skill gain a week. In a year I will have gained 25 skill lvls and still not be at my cap. And all this for 35-40 more hp on cure v which I don't usually fit the entire thing in as is while exping. In most non exp situations you won't be waiting for the tank to drop low enough for cure v to fit competly in, thus this becomes a mute factor. So if cure v isn't even being used to its fully potential, whm cure power works the exact same at 72 and 75. Outside exp I don't even find myself using cure v unless it is against too weak or ep that there is no risk against. In those situations mp efficieny isn't a factor.

In terms of enhancing skill, Stoneskin isn't the only spell it has a bearing on. The entire Ba- line is based on enhancing skill, and in some situations is even more important than Stoneskin, since a couple points can mean the difference between a spell doing massive damage, or being resisted entirely. Again, if you feel the difference is negligable, that's your opinion, but the fact remains there is a difference.

Rdm's have a much higher enhancing cap, so during dynamsis I let them do the bar-element spells for the parties. If those few points are so important should I guess that you carry a +7 enhancing torque?

I don't feel equipment alone should be the only motivator for leveling a job to its full potential.

I say equipment because if all you are looking at is abilties, mp, and stats you are at your full potential at lvl 72 from what I see.

[inspyral]

Originally posted by Rones


I say equipment because if all you are looking at is abilties, mp, and stats you are at your full potential at lvl 72 from what I see.

Wow, that statement alone is full of contradictions. I could touch on some points, like the fact that most RDM sub BLM in HNM/Dynamis situations for sleeping/enfeebling duty, and are thus unable to cast ANY group buffs, but I see it's pointless. If you're happy with your "full potential" at 72, have fun with it.

[Rones]

Did dynamis Jeuno the other day and all the rdm's subbed whm for bafira against all the goblins. Looked to work pretty well. We already had 7 blms and 4 brds for sleeps. Even then, without blm sub a rdm would only be missing sleepga1 from sub and elemental seal. They still have their super high enfeebling skill, dark staff, and sleep 1&2.

If you're happy with your "full potential" at 72, have fun with it.

Sarcasm duly noted. Lack of counter point also duly noted.

I really wasn't wanting to argue. Whole reason I made this thread was to find out if there was something I was missing (eg: some actually attainable gear for whm 73-75) that would warrent going past 72. Of course I see the extra ~20mp and reraise 3, but those don't come across as a good motivation for 120k+ exp or 34.2 hours exping at 3.5k an hour (ignoring time forming parties, downtime for afk, and time spent finding replacements).

[Zenelly]

I really wasn't wanting to argue. Whole reason I made this thread was to find out if there was something I was missing (eg: some actually attainable gear for whm 73-75) that would warrent going past 72. Of course I see the extra ~20mp and reraise 3, but those don't come across as a good motivation for 120k+ exp or 34.2 hours exping at 3.5k an hour (ignoring time forming parties, downtime for afk, and time spent finding replacements).

people told you what there is beyond 72, and why they are motivated but you commented as if all their reason was negligible. you asked they answered.

I pretty much agree with the reasons for progressing past 72, I have abj to wear which is a lot more mp, af2 is always cool and all the other points people touched on, just what I think