I didn't believe it but...

[Icemage]

WHM/BRD is not the same as BRD/WHM. Agreed.

However, its not like Bards are all that common, and you don't absolutely need them to make good XP.

When it comes down to it, RDM/WHM + RDM/BLM + BRD/WHM is probably one of the best backlines you can have, particularly if your frontliners are equally good (say, NIN/WAR + RNG/NIN + THF/NIN) as far as fighting efficiency goes.

The reality, though, is that finding 2 RDMs AND a BRD is very difficult. It is, in fact, the rarity of Bards that made me choose to play WHM/BRD. I can fill out parties that WHM/BLM cannot, because I can form an effective party with just a single RDM/BLM as additional support, and while a BRD/WHM is clearly a better supporter than I am as WHM/BRD, they are very rare, and lack other abilities that I bring to the table (Raise II, Flash, Regen II, Viruna, Stona, Cure V).


Icemage

[Reisuki]

Viruna and Stona are extremely important spells. Without these I would not be able to level of velocoraptors in the Vally of Sorrows and no stona can make cockatrice leveling impossible, hehe it is one of the more profitable leveling mobs =^-^=.

Me? I love a RDM. Refresh is very nice to have and consistant enfeebling rates are needed for mp conservation. Also an extra MB makes for nice extra damage =^-^=.

Personally i can see parties can get good xp but the role of main healer cannot be fully replaced by any class. Some spells are just to useful and MP/time savers not to have.

RaiseII/III
RegenIII (Still yet to experiance but i hear it makes a large differance.)
High level -na's
Protectra/Shellra
Teleport-???
Curaga's (Higher Teir)

Lastly, WHMs are very reliable. A RDM might have a problem with his mana having to do extra jobs and with the 15min timer on convert the RDM may not always have an instant full mana pool to play with.

Whereas a WHM has a larger MP pool to play with and spells which cut the amount of MP they will have to use per battle, Regen, Curaga, which is mana effeciant in many situations. Also, i don't know if it is just me, but i use flash almost every battle these days. 25mp and th emob usually misses 3 attack turns. thats around 2-3 Cure II's (48-62mp). Nice MP saver ;3.

Also... I was thinkign of leveling up a BRD and trying it out in a few xp parties but every time i've tried to I normally get a call for my WHM to party x_x. Also, with me being a mithra, i'll have lower CHR, but a Jesters cape+1 should even my CHR problems out a bit or i can camp me a Monster Signa for X-treme Staff Switching Action(tm).

--1am, sorry for any grammer, spelling or presentational errors.

[Gryff]

why is this topic still open and not locked?

its full of such idiotic views and ideas.

it was clearly a troll thread to start with.

[Deodorant]

Uh ... clearly a troll thread? Did you reply in the wrong thread, or are you just so sensitive that you start crying 'omg trolling, lock this thread now!' the moment people disagree with something?

Anyway ... purely from a healer standpoint, whm is the superior healer, you can't claim otherwise. However, depending on party configuration, rdm may (or may not) be the superior party member.

Example: Let's say you have 5 PT members, with brd and blm backline already. Would you go for a 100% healer (whm), or a 75% healer + refresh (rdm)?

[Gryff]

Re: I didn't believe it but...

Originally posted by midnilux
RDM> WHM after 41

So I stopped whm at 41, and leveling BLM, I was tempted to stay whm for longer but not after how I saw RDMs killing me at my own job.

I wish WHM would have more of an advantage, pretty much the only thing is I hear rdms bitch about not liking to heal, but if they want to, they can be main healer, refresh, and debuff just fine, if they want to...

I wish WHM would have something better than the BAR spells, like a NULL spell, Something you cast like say "nullsheelpra" and you CANT fall asleep while its on, it'd be impossible. Anything that would give us a far edge over rdm when healing/enhancing pts...

Bah... I hate RDMs stealing my job

See? this isnt even a discussion its a rdm is better than whm, whine whine starter post.

The whole thread is filled with bad information as well.

[DrSerpico]

No offense, but...

People always use that line, I hate it.

I disagree. The first post may have been even more biased than your last reply, but that alone does not make this thread a trolling one.

Here's the deal-ioh:

For exp party settings, esp. in a set PT (security, no need for raiseII most of the time), a party normally consisting of whm, blm, brd will be outpaced by rdm, blm, brd backline.

Blm tosses a heal here and there, rdm tosses a few heals, negates dmg and bursts (nuke to 0mp on chain5, then 'vert).

dual refresh from refresh/ballad keeps the blm with 150 extra free mp compared to with whm, that's 3*cure III/faster chains right there, as well as the brd with 150 extra mp (over a short period, you get the idea. And the rdm 150-40-40-40=30, so his refresh pays for the 2 others, more or less.)


where's the extra nukes on chain5 from whm? Where's the damage negation? Where's anything but heals?
(slow para won't contest with rdm's post 65, C rating in enfeebling makes them not stick/unstick too fast.)


The place where whms shine is everything outside hardcore exp setting. Whms are THE most useful members of HNM fights, thanks to raise III, cureV, stona and regenIII. Here, they CANNOT be contested in ANY way. In normal exp settings they never need to play their fullest, and hence they are in MY view, not optimal for exp pt.

The cinch with playing whm-less (our set = no whm) is of course the lack of raiseII+ when shit hits the fan. Sofar, I've felt that even when we've gotten royally screwed and eaten R1, we're still ahead in exp due to having a rdm instead of a whm.

I'm sure this'll upset MANY whms, but I have nowhere tried to insult whms, I've only done my best to share my views.

[Gryff]

Coming onto a whm forum and saying whms suck isnt trolling?




He wasnt even trying to start a discussion.

[Icemage]

In a set party with RDM RDM BRD backline, sure, there's no reason to use a WHM as long as you're careful about what you fight (i.e. nothing with Petrify as an attack).

Personally, I cannot stand set parties. Too much drama, too much effort to coordinate schedules - some people treat it almost like being married. I could level somewhat faster with one... but why? It isn't like the game servers are going to be shut down tomorrow and all the high level players will get their names engraved onto a plaque.

*shrugs* If you want a set party and can find 2 red mages and a bard... knock yourselves out. As long as you don't come crying to a WHM for Raise II or III if you die, it really doesn't matter to anyone else ( I don't know about other white mages, but this sort of thing just scrapes me raw ... you want totally efficient XP, go for it, but accept the drawback of not having a WHM in your set PT if you do. I categorically refuse to Raise II party wipeouts where there is no WHM).


Icemage

[DrSerpico]

Last reply, no more to say.

I categorically refuse to Raise II party wipeouts where there is no WHM).

Fine and dandy. I said that we'd take the R1 hit.

Personally, I cannot stand set parties.

Your personal preference differs from mine. Ok.

Coming onto a whm forum and saying whms suck isnt trolling?

I disagree. The first post may have been even more biased than your last reply, but that alone does not make this thread a trolling one.

He may have been trying to troll, but us serious ppl won't go for that. Instead, a serious discussion arose, where some flaws with whm in exp-pt's we're pointed out, and hence:

The whole thread is filled with bad information as well.

There are some exp PT's that require a whm to work. Ours do not, and I feel that we are getting faster exp without whm than we would have with one. Never saw perf. chain #5 before, now we get 3 chain#5 on one night, when the vanadiel gods permit. Even 2 chain6, one for 277 exp and one for crappy exp XD.

And no, we didn't get them by using 2hrs. 2 of the perfect chains was regular grinds.

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42029

There, said all I needed for now, unless you bring up some other points. Ja na. ^^

(Btw: Kristin pwns me. I'm just sucky eurotrash. Whatever she says = truth ^^)

[Gryff]

your parties suck?


I was getting 300xp per chain #5 and even #4 in kazham with my set 10-40 party.


I normally hit chain #5 all the time in my whm exp parties.


My current exp party doesnt have a whm ( rdm+brd+smn ) and we're not getting less than #5 either.
( i'm using ffxi windower ).

whm has advantages over rdm, ( more efficient cures, regen 3, raise2+3 prot-ra etc. ), I think higher up it balances out.

RDM is never > WHM and WHM is never > RDM.

[DrSerpico]

yare yare.

I was getting 300xp per chain #5 and even #4 in kazham with my set 10-40 party.

Are you for real? Give me what you're smoking, it's gotta be strong... I'd like to see one of your alleged exp chain #4 300exp...

Exp chain bonus for chain #4 = base * 1.4
Max Base exp given for a mob = 200 exp.

In my world, and hopefully everyone elses, 200 * 1.4 = 280

In gryffs world, 200 * 1.4 = 300.

Also, chains go higher with set pt's. AND, on mandragoras you get chain 3 effortlessly in pickup PT.

This sounds kinda like your "information" that cureV gives MORE hate than CureIV. Remember that one? How was it now again?

Don't tell me you're just making stuff up, this is an attempt to share views, no contest... Jeebus.

Ok, now you can call me a troll and demand the thread locked. :spin:

[Zaleshea]

Well I'd just like to thank all the rdms who posted in this thread with open minded comments, I didnt think there were any who actually had some reassuring things to say about this whole..."WHM's LIFE after 41!" thing...

I've met some in the game, that would just trash me to pieces cause I'm a whm, for quite awhile I've had deep hate for rdms in general cause of this mistreatment.

I dont care who is better, or superior, I just like my damn job, and its no fun when melees and others start all this trash talking about how GLAD they will be when they hit 41, cause then they can tell the hard working whms to wipe thier ass.

Sorry, but we can't make SE give us convert and refresh...

[Gryff]

Re: yare yare.

Originally posted by DrSerpico


Are you for real? Give me what you're smoking, it's gotta be strong... I'd like to see one of your alleged exp chain #4 300exp...

Exp chain bonus for chain #4 = base * 1.4
Max Base exp given for a mob = 200 exp.

In my world, and hopefully everyone elses, 200 * 1.4 = 280

In gryffs world, 200 * 1.4 = 300.

Your assuming we had 6 people in the party.

^_^

[Fourinkmaaya]

Re: Re: yare yare.

Originally posted by Gryff



Your assuming we had 6 people in the party.

^_^

...
if you're solo the explimit for chain4 is 280exp.
if you're in a party the explimit for chain4 is 280exp.
i remember a time when i got a chain4 500exp soloing mandras in sarutabaruta! (aka xarcabardtura)