taking whms for granted

[cruets]

ever since my set pt broke when i hit 60, i've had to settle for pick up pts. that means long wait for an invite, dealing with jp's who prefer to pt with their own, etc. plus 60+ no one really seems to want a whm anyway, they rather have summoner for buffs or blm/rdm/brd pt or something for support players. i hear it all the time. anywho, tonite i was in boyahda tree after finally getting an invite after two days. no sooner than i am there i get two /tells asking for raise 2 explaining they dont have whm in their pt and they got dead pt members. i use to be nice and would go out of my way to raise people but tonite i think i had enough. in the back of my mind, i wanted to tell em off, "you choose not to pick a whm for your pt, you live with the consequences when you die". i just told em i couldnt leave cause i was xp'in, but anywho, people dont want to lvl with whms, then they can eat the raise 1's when they die past 60, no skin off my back. longer they keep me out of pts, one less whm with raise 3 to help people. thats my rant for the nite...

[Rones]

Its very true, they want the best of both worlds. They want you to cast the -na spells on their party that's camped next to you because they have no whm and to raise them when they get themselves killed, but they won't sacrifice a party slot for whm.

[riceburner4540]

i'll NEVER sacrifice my whm for any other job!! party setup is whm, blm, rdm, pld, thf, drg. swapping out thf for sam @ 60. other than that, i love the party and i don't think i'd ever want any job to be replaced. whms are great, its just too bad many people don't realize it.

[Arturo-B]

I completely agree Thora. Though I have a set still and don't have the party problems you do, I simply go anon all the time. If I see someone dead or I'm next to them I'll raise 2 of course just because I'm a nice guy, but I'm not about to traipse around boyhada or terrigan to find a dead person. If a party wants to pt without a whm, they should eat a raise 1. Mooching off of other parties or kind whm's is not fair I think.

The na spells and high level raises are a large part of why whm's are valuable. Trying to get by without them means you should also pay the price I think. If their whm is the dead one though, I'll usually go out of my way, as I would want the same courtesy extended to me if things went bad.

[BlueAliveJello]

I couldn't agree more! I too was leveling in the Boyahda Tree and no sooner than we get to camp I get a tell for a raise 2. Since they were somewhat close to our camp I went ahead and raised after the gobbues cleared. Then when we moved camp into the Processionaire tunnel I got spammed with tells for about the whole time while there for raise 2's. I told them I'm in an xp party at the moment and could not raise. I go anon.. the tells keep coming (a lot of people on my server apparently know I'm a 56+ whm). I've almost decided not to raise 2 anyone if they are outside of my party and I do not know them. To all the people that have told me that theres no need for whm 50+ because "in a good pt you shouldn't die" (quoted from someone I used to be in same ls with) never ask me for a raise 2. While your whm-less pt has dead members seeking raise 2's my pt is alive and well thanks to Protectra/Shellra IV, bar-ra spells, and Cure V. There is certainly no shortage of whm on my server either, most of the time there are about 25 whm my level range looking for party. Every xp party should have a whm. If you don't invite a whm, enjoy your raise 1.

[Icemage]

This has become my policy as well. If you don't have a WHM in your party at 56+, don't bother me with your Raise request. I do get a fair number of invites, but all these people with their false bravado who think WHM aren't useful need to learn that with the more "efficient" XP backlines, there is a price to pay. Oh, your SMN is dead, and only has Reraise? Tough.

{I'm sorry, I'm busy now.}


Icemage

[2.0]

Originally posted by BlueAliveJello
Every xp party should have a whm.

Making selfish statements like that now I know why everybody loves you guys.

[Synbios]

Wonders of WHM, having a JP RDM reject joining your party with JP ONRY, onry to have him asking you for Raise 2 20 mins later in levelling area when you're in another party. Raise 2s and 3s are for party members and other dead WHMs.

[Sorian]

I'm not a whm and I think all parties should have one but that's just my opinion.
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Don't hurt me

[Kopitiam]

Yeah i would have to agree. A lot of xp parties saying 2 rdm is healing a lot better than 1 rdm and 1 whm. Fine, go ahead but dun go sending tells for raise coz we're not your standby rasier..... you've made the choice of convert ability rather than the ability to get back partial lost xp ability so the choice is clear.

Dun happen too much now coz i've got myself a wonderful static party but it's common in my 40's.

[AtraposBLM]

I tried doing the rdm/blm/brd backline, and to be honest, it actually is a lot faster...but the simple fact of the matter is, most times, you don't have camps to yourselves, so the limiting factor is not your parties killing speed, its more your pullers ability to time pulls and pops. If not for that limiting factor, rdm/blm/brd parties would be insanely fast. If there was no limit on pulls, I could definately see how 7k+ exp/hour would be feasible.

If that were the case, and say a rdm/blm/whm party was only capable of getting 5k exp/hour, to be honest, I'd take the no-whm party. If someone died...well, we're getting 2k exp/hour more than a group with a whm, so eat the raise 1, and you'd still be getting more exp/hour.

However, most times, that's not the case. A well played party of whm/blm/rdm(or brd)/pld + 2 others can easily manage to get into a rythum of pulling so that there are consistent chain 5's, albeit slightly slower than the whmless party. Most decent parties I have with whm's get anywhere from 4.5k exp/hour to 4.8k exp/hour, on average.

A well played party (read: more coordinated than the above party, due to healing responsibilities being spread to 3 people that have other things to do) of rdm/blm/brd/pld++ is capable of getting into a slightly quicker rythum of pulls, and might even be able to get a few chain 6's here and there (I find that there's just not enough mobs close enough to pull to even bother trying for chain 6). Best parties of these I've had ranged from 4.9k to 5.5k exp/hour. However, in most parties without a whm, there tends to be at least one death...usually multiple (especially leveling in areas prone to linking). This chance of death means you stand to lose 1.2-2k exp by accepting R1. That to me does not justify getting at best 600 more exp per hour, considering I stand to lose double that or more (even more so now at lv70).

As such, I take a dedicated healer. Yes, you lose out on some killing power (by supporting the damage dealers more), but you put more strain on the mages (which balances out their higher mp regen rate...not fully but somewhat). You gain efficiency with your cures, freeing up the rdm and blm to do their jobs better, you gain better refreshes, and you gain extra security so that if something does indeed go wrong...you still won't lose out on anything. Good whm's make it seem like you don't need them, because you never really notice big health dips, you never need to wait because the healer went OOM using inefficient cures, they free up mp by using blinkga/flash/regen...but when you actually try to level without them, you start noticing just how much you miss having a dedicated healer.


Bottom line, yes, rdm/blm/brd (or sub a smn at 70+) is indeed a more ideal party than rdm/whm/blm. However...most times the difference between the 2 are negligble (competition, pop times, pull lengths, etc.), or small enough that they don't warrant the decrease in safety. That...and you have to pay for teleports if you don't bring your own whm >_<;;

[Gryff]

people do take whms for granted, they want teleports if your in jeuno or transporting from crag to crag or to travel 10 years across the world to raise them.

I think paladins should get all the raise spells at maybe 40, 60 and 75.



I will go out of my way to raise a fellow whm if possible but sometimes you just can't.

I was exping in kuftal the other day at the ovinniks/greater cockatrice/ladon and someone died in terrigan, and I got sent a /tell

I replied I'm exping at the xxx its a bit of a long way+danger to me getting back, they continued, I said "Take a whm next time" they replied it is our whm.....



Reraise anyone?

[Miriamel]

I've been declining that kind of raises recently - for one, it slows my own PT down, and I agree with all of you - you choose not to bring a white mage, that's fine with me, but you live with the consequences.

Yesterday however, I got pissed for two reasons... someone in my alliance died on the way to Simurgh, so I zone to Crawler's Nest to raise him. But as soon as I enter the nest, I get beat on by about 3 Wespes and about 10 more Soul Stingers that linked to them (Wespes? On the way to Simurgh? ....how can you possibly go anymore wrong). I die on the zoneline. Since the rest of the alliance had already taken off to get Behemoth, now both of us were stuck in there dead. A lvl75 PLD friend decides to come back for us to raise me. Of course, the person causing both deaths gets out of it fine with my Raise II, I'm the one that has to eat the 1700EXP loss.

Later that day, we do coffer keys for my set bard PT and after I had gotten my 56 piece from Oztroja, I join them back in Garlaige.. we get two keys, but the BLM D2s one of the key people before he passed on it, so it was lost.. we wait around for them to come back, but for some *stupid reason* they did not sneak+invis up before dropping down in the Citadel, so they pulled a few bats and beetles.. annoying, yet no problem.. but they pull it directly on a weapon spawn spot, so 3 of them aggro to our magic and the entire PT gets wiped out. Who is expected to homepoint on her level 55 to come back and raise all others as whm? Me of course.

I feel like I've become somewhat of a raise bot. ~.-

[Lily]

Wow that seems entirely unfair and a bit harsh.

[locus]

*laughs* Dying is an issue for white mages since yes, you are expected to bite the exp loss. Not to sound snide, but what you should have done is this: Whenever you enter a dangerous zone, CAST RERAISE. it lasts an entire hour. Refresh it whenever it goes. Ignore your party member's claims that "it slows you down". They'll just have to wait for your mp - if they can't, then you shouldn't be partying with them.

Reraise isn't so helpful when fighting dispelga monsters, in those cases, I recommend staying far away from the monsters in question. It's also annoying that you get raise 3 at 70, but have to wait till 75 for reraise 3, but it's manageable.

Important note: Reraise will die whenever you cast any transportation spells. This means all Warps, Teleport and Escape. I'm not sure if this is a bug or a feature since no other spells seem to do that.

Also, this "XXX is better" has been done to death. It's opinion and frankly wherever you go, whining doesn't stop:

RDM: why does our clear mind suck? Why don't we get Cure V? Why aren't there any spells to look forward to after level 41? Why do our WS suck? Why do we have B dagger skill but utterly crapola daggers to chose from? Why can't we use good swords past level 71 that don't cost at least 500k etc etc etc.

BRD: OMG our damage output sucks and we can't solo anything even 20 levels below us! More than half of our songs are utter crap! Why can't we use poles? Our AF is horrible! etc etc etc.

Same with the "Japanese people won't party with me!" issue. Leave it be already.