Charging for Raise

[dworkin]

when i died helpin a ls mate with sam af. i had to pay a whm 2k for a raise2.. now before anyone goes crazy. this is what i offered to pay them. they went out of there way to raise me. the least i could do was pay for there trouble.


and the same thing can be said for a D2. i always offer to pay 500gil for it. i see it as a tele. an if i have to pay for a tele dem all the time. why shouldnt i expect to pay for a D2??


i dont mind paying for them, i dont mind offering to ay for them.. cause in the end we all win...

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by Sadeira
sweet revenge when 70+ parties involve ditching the whm for 3 blms brd rdm and tank?

To be honest, I'd still rather have BLMx3/BRD/WHM/Tank or BLMx3/RDM/WHM/Tank just so the rdm can add nukes, and the WHM can toss Cure V around. If all the mages have dark staves, you don't really need the extra +3 mp from either refresh or both ballads (depending on which one you have to begin with). I make a steady chain 5 in groups like I mentioned, and hit chain 6 on occasion too (usually we're limited by not having enough mobs to pull, not kill speed / mp).


Another thing I forgot to mention - all the whm's I quoted seem to feel like everyone doesn't want them in their parties, and anyone that doesn't take a whm with them deserves contempt and is saying they're useless. Hey, I got a few questions for ya:
Have you ever grouped without a Paladin?
Have you ever grouped without a Theif?
Have you ever grouped without a Monk?
Have you ever grouped without a Ninja?
Have you ever grouped without a Ranger?
Have you ever grouped without a Red Mage?
Have you ever grouped without a Black Mage?
Have you ever grouped without a Bard?
Have you ever grouped without a Dark Knight?
Have you ever grouped without a Dragoon?
Have you ever grouped without a Warrior?
Have you ever grouped without a Samurai?
Have you ever grouped without a Summoner?
Have you ever grouped without a Beastmaster?

If you answered Yes to any of the above, well then, I guess that means they won't be inviting you because you feel you don't need them. Oh wait....

Hypocrite. How do you think the rest of us feel. And don't give me that crap about how it's hard to be a whm. Anyone can work hard at equipping any job, so it comes down to how much you're needed for parties. No job is needed more than WHM. Some are more desirable, but no job can compete with the draw that a WHM has from level 1 to level 75. Yes, at times, WHM invites suffer. Go complain to a DRG, DRK, MNK, WAR, RNG, SMN, SAM, NIN, THF, or BLM (yes, my invites suck too. Everyone thinks BLM's get free rides, and although that's true up until about lv25 or 30, from there on, if I got 10 gil every time someone told me BLM's were useless, I'd be the most pimped little taru you ever saw).

**Deleted a good chunk of shit that I spewed because I'm an asshole. My apologies to those that it offended. I'll offer no excuses for what I said, and if your opinion of me fell, I'll accept that and call myself lucky that I didn't earn a place on your blacklist. And if I get that...well I can't say that I blame you. Letting anger get control of me was inexcusable, and once again, I apologize.**

[balz]

the WHMs just got told im glad im not one Atrapos im not starting anything but calm down man just breath i dont want you dying from a heart attack man

[Icemage]

Mmm... ranting aside, there are never WHM in short supply on Midgardsormr post-60. Never. Any group that goes out without one does so consciously. I tend to make exceptions for Summoners, since they are often used in place of WHM, and it is not their fault that they don't have access to Raise II/III, but I *always* check with my party first.

For the record, I ALSO consider asking other BLMs outside your party for a Warp II to be the same type of rudeness. You want a Warp home? Bring a BLM, or buy yourself an Instant Warp scroll. I play as WHM/BRD. I teleport myself to Altepa if there isn't a BLM in my party, or just use a scroll if I need to get somewhere faster.

And what's with the "WHM are supposed to be goody-two shoes good Samaritans who are required to drop what they're doing and help everyone who asks" garbage? I help who I can, when I can, when I'm not busy doing other things, but if I'm out to earn XP, and I have 5 other people with me trying to do the same thing, it's no longer a question of just MY time.


Icemage

[suzu]

Originally posted by Icemage

I teleport myself to Altepa if there isn't a BLM in my party, or just use a scroll if I need to get somewhere faster.

That's another thing. Many melees expect the mages to handle all of their sneak/invising when going through areas with a high chance of catching aggro anywhere. They never bother to bring their own powders or oils, then cry because they're stuck in a corner and got left behind by the rest of the party trying to reach their destination. No one goes prepared. ._.

[sylvanas]

Originally posted by AtraposBLM
My arguement summed up:
Cry me a river.

next time you die, homepoint.

a whm has absolutely no obligations to raise anyone outside of their own pt. period. if you find a whm who is *nice enough* to go out of his/her way to raise you while they are in another pt, you should be very thankful.

your 11 hours of waiting for a pt are really nothing to me, ive waited much longer. midgard is filled to the brim with whms. you dont play whm, so dont act like you have to wait longer for pt because you dont. low levels (1-37) are not an accurate gauge of this. any job gets invites easily at these levels. play it all the way. the only jobs that dont have to wait for invites on midgard are brds, and rngs. i simply have never heard either of those jobs complain about lfp. (i have heard rdms complain that they do not get pts at times) if youre going to whine about your own job not getting invites, thats a seperate issue.

playing a whm does not mean you are obligated to go out of your way for anyone, that is complete and utter bs. if you are worried about dying during exp, you bring a whm with you or you can eat a r1, its really that simple. if you happen to run into a whm who is willing to help you out, you are *lucky*. they are in no way obligated to help you at all, never forget that.

youve a lot of nerve to come in here saying you respect everyone and spewing out what you said.

[Icemage]

Oh, and to the first person I quoted - I took 3 weeks off leveling to afford my ice and dark staves (that's in addition to my spells, mind you, which run a good deal more expensive than yours). Then, after I played with them and noticed how much of an improvement they were, I took a good month off to farm enough for 3 more. I'd have that 3rd (5th) one already if I hadn't had to deal with my computer's BS. Give me a break. The only expensive spell a whm has to buy by lv40 is erase...and I didn't meet a single WHM with erase until I went on a Genkei 2 run and the lv75 JP whm that helped us had it. By comparison, blm's have moved into buying the II series..which we get every 3 levels, and it costs between 15 and 30k gil for them. Add in Warp II (bought most likely because the quest is much harder for a lv40 than the teleport quests are for lv36's), sleep II, and others, and my spells alone are much more expensive.

My arguement summed up:
Cry me a river. [/B]

LOL. All jobs are expensive in their own way. What makes you think BLM is so special in this respect?

Reraise II 200K
Raise II 375K
Raise III 200K
Dark Staff 700K
Light Staff 400K
Erase 300K
Lu Shang's Fishing Rod to fund the above: 2.3 million

Warp II? Add the price of all 6 teleports and I think you'll come out with just a sliiiighty higher total than Warp II.

Total time spent crafting/fishing to acquire above items: Over 3 months.

What was that about WHM having only Erase as our only major expense again?


Icemage

[Lynsy]

I have never charged for a raise nor accepting donations--This includes such experiences as leaving an NM camp that I had been at for ~20hours (didnt know ToD) to go to Zvahl to raise...Backing out of a PT in Taronghi to change jobs from RDM to WHM to go the crest room in Oz to raise...AIM requests to go raise a dead WHM in a friends PT when Im not even in game at the top of Delkfutts Tower, etc...I have many, many times gone >far< out of my way to raise people. I do not charge, I will not charge--that will not change. But do not expect me to do it--the second you tell me I am coming to raise you rather than request is when you will be finding your ass a new raiser ^^

[Lasareth]

Absolutely--the decision for a Raise is at the discretion of the WHM. If you don't want to, fine. If you do, fine. But charging for one is stupid. You either do have the time or you don't. Don't bitch about having to raise someone then charge them for Raise when you can simply say no.

I know that I will, personally, accept reasonable requests. I even respond to "raize plz" or "plz come." I will NEVER raise someone who calls be a bastard for helping kill Banshees in qufim around their lake. I will NEVER raise someone who demands one. But I will also NEVER charge for a Raise on the basis that it doesn't cost me anything if it's reasonable.

If it's out of the way, I make the decision of whether I personally want to spend the time to go out of my way or whether I'm obligated to do something else. I wouldn't market my time as money, as that's just greedy and taking advantage of an ability that I have to use at MY discretion.

And that's all I have to say about that.

[sylvanas]

Originally posted by Lynsy
But do not expect me to do it--the second you tell me I am coming to raise you rather than request is when you will be finding your ass a new raiser ^^

couldntve said it better '-')b

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by sylvanas
next time you die, homepoint.

a whm has absolutely no obligations to raise anyone outside of their own pt. period. if you find a whm who is *nice enough* to go out of his/her way to raise you while they are in another pt, you should be very thankful.

You're 100% right. I keep reraise on me at all times, and I'm perfectly willing to accept R1 any time I'm not with a WHM. I never said they had any obligation to do it. I was merely pointing out that it was a bull shit reason to say "You don't have a WHM, you don't need me." Be honest - you don't want to raise them. Simple as that. And ya know what? There's not a damn thing wrong about that. But don't make it seem like all these people are personally insulting you every time they party without a whm.

Originally posted by sylvanas
your 11 hours of waiting for a pt are really nothing to me, ive waited much longer. midgard is filled to the brim with whms. you dont play whm, so dont act like you have to wait longer for pt because you dont. low levels (1-37) are not an accurate gauge of this. any job gets invites easily at these levels. play it all the way. the only jobs that dont have to wait for invites on midgard are brds, and rngs. i simply have never heard either of those jobs complain about lfp. (i have heard rdms complain that they do not get pts at times) if youre going to whine about your own job not getting invites, thats a seperate issue.

You seem to have missed my point, as you're making the same arguement I made. I didn't bring up my issues to try and say they were worse, merely to say that EVERY job has them. Anybody can work hard to make themselves the best - it's not limited to WHM. WHM just has a few ways that they can get gil that I consider underhanded (come on...you're taking money from somebody that's lying face down...that's like stealing from your grandma).

Originally posted by sylvanas
playing a whm does not mean you are obligated to go out of your way for anyone, that is complete and utter bs. if you are worried about dying during exp, you bring a whm with you or you can eat a r1, its really that simple. if you happen to run into a whm who is willing to help you out, you are *lucky*. they are in no way obligated to help you at all, never forget that.

youve a lot of nerve to come in here saying you respect everyone and spewing out what you said.

Once again, you seem to have missed my point, as it's exactly the same as yours. My problem was with the fact that certain WHMs were making it seem as if it was a grevious sin to EXP without a whm. And to be honest, anyone that's played any job other than WHM above lv56 is guilty of asking for raises at some point. It's only natural to try to save some of your EXP. It's one thing to be annoyed if people are rude - it's another thing to say that it's personally insulting that people didn't bring a WHM.

Originally posted by IcemageLOL. All jobs are expensive in their own way. What makes you think BLM is so special in this respect?

Reraise II 200K
Raise II 375K
Raise III 200K
Dark Staff 700K
Light Staff 400K
Erase 300K
Lu Shang's Fishing Rod to fund the above: 2.3 million

Warp II? Add the price of all 6 teleports and I think you'll come out with just a sliiiighty higher total than Warp II.

Total time spent crafting/fishing to acquire above items: Over 3 months.

What was that about WHM having only Erase as our only major expense again?


Icemage

Did you bother to read my post? Doesn't seem like it. First off, I was quoting my spells and their prices once again to show the very point you just made: every single job in the game is expensive if you want good gear. Second off, I was giving a counter-point to someone who said they were trying to afford all their whm spells at lv40. Notice, of all the items on your list, only one of them is pre-lv40 (aside from Lu Shangs, which doesn't really count as a WHM peice of equipment, as anyone could choose to fish as their means of income), and lo-and-behold, that one item is Erase. Did I misspeak? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I did say spells pre-lv40, no? I guess I could've added more examples of other jobs pre-lv40, but one, I have no experience playing any jobs above lv20 other than BLM and WHM, and two, my posts were already ridiculously long, so I didn't bother. I guess I should've.


In my last post, I probably went a little overboard, and for that, I apologize. I could make excuses like a lot of people do, but I won't. Nothing I said was meant as a personal attack.

Sylv and Icemage, I think you guys misinterpreted my posts. I wasn't trying to say "BLM's have it so much worse, zomg!", I was actually trying to make the exact same arguement you just made against me. I guess that was ineffective...

[Kilgraw]

Just a little raise story I'd like to share with this happy group of people.

One day I was travelling down Jugner Forest on a chocobo, and ran into a corpse lying in the middle of the pathway. I wasn't really going anywhere at the time, so I get off my chocobo to give the guy a raise. As I'm raising the guy, I suddenly get a /tell saying "F' Off" (minus the cencorship). Now I'm confused as hell as to who would give me this /tell and for what possible reason. I take another look at the guy I'm raising and see his name, and you guessed it, it was the same as the guy who gave me the vulgar /tell. Once this all clicked in, I asked the guy why the devil he's telling me to f' off. A couple seconds later he tells me he's got a Whm friend on his way to come raise II him. I then think to myself, ok he's got a raise II coming... who cares. The language wasn't needed. He just needed to say a raise wasn't needed, and maybe even go so far as to thank me for getting off my chocobo to try anyway. But no, I got a f' off.

True story. This guy was my first and only person to reach my /blist.

[Merlyne`]

In terms of charging for raise (that's the main topic, right?), there's nothing wrong with that. No WHM outside of your PT has any responsibility to raise you, but I think that was already made clear.

A WHM that charges for raise is still a WHM going out of their way to help you. Them making profit makes it worth their wasted time to alleviate your inabilities. It's generally your fault if your PT comes unprepared; if you don't feel like paying, tough cookies. Find someone else that will go out of their way to help you. It's amazing how people complain about this when Teleport service is a similar case (that people should be grateful for).

A select few of you argue along the lines of, "Leveling WHM pre-40 isn't expensive. The only thing expensive is Erase." Pre-40, everyone always has a money problem. IMO, melee have better farming capabilities to make gil, but their equipment is far more expensive than any mage (and that cost rises every level, despite the ability to sell equipment back). Mages are the other spectrum.

I'm very curious on how WHMs pre-37 were able to make gil to afford everything they needed. I would assume it's tougher than a BLM or an RDM for fairly obvious reasons. Even if your overall cost was less, I don't see how WHM have it any easier if the income was also less.

Quality non-flame replies, please.

[suzu]

Merly knows how long it took for me to barely catch up to you around that range. Hell, I don't even remember how I scraped up gil at the time.. do remember tele-whoring long enough for pick axes though. X3

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by Merlyne`
A select few of you argue along the lines of, "Leveling WHM pre-40 isn't expensive. The only thing expensive is Erase." Pre-40, everyone always has a money problem. IMO, melee have better farming capabilities to make gil, but their equipment is far more expensive than any mage (and that cost rises every level, despite the ability to sell equipment back). Mages are the other spectrum.

You neglect to mention that I merely argued that whm wasn't expensive pre-lv40 mainly because *somebody else brought it up*. Someone saying "WHM is expensive, I need gil for my spells, so it's ok for me to charge people for raise" pissed me off, so I responded.

Bottom line for me is this: Yes, it's perfectly logical to charge for raises. Yes, there's a perfectly good reason to charge for raises. Is it a nice thing to do? Not at all. No matter how much money I've needed for spell/gear, I have never once charged somebody for anything, excluding the few times I paid 1k+ for a chocobo that I just got on and somebody wanted something. Why? Well...if you died, how would you like to be treated? Personally, I always offer money to the raiser, and never accept it myself. Why? Because I think it's a stupid way to make money. Accept donations if you want to make money, but charging for raises is like paramedics saying "Hey, we'll get you in the ambulance if you give us 20 bucks". Slightly different, but that's just how I feel about it.


Why is everyone jumping on me for what I said as if I'm trying to say BLM's have it worse? I was responding to your points in an effort to say that EVERYBODY has difficulties...taking advantage of other people's misfortunes in my opinion is wrong. Nobody *tries* to die, so if somebody died...that means there was misfortunate involved. Personally, I don't like profiting in that case. Do what you want though.