WHM/BRD at 60+

[Icemage]

Almost none of the offensive songs will work for /BRD. I think I land Threnody maybe one time in 8. The main problem is that you aren't using Enfeebling skill for songs - you're using Singing skill. Same goes for Elegy, Finale, Requiem, Lullaby, etc.

Your high CHR as a WHM helps a bit... but that just means you're not at 0% success.


Icemage

[Shiia]

I am way too busy myself trying to do my job properly... subbing brd would drain my energy faster -_-;

Again its nice to see some other combo's work on some occations. We had once got a brd subbing a summoner for the sole reason of wanting aerial armor. Then again. This party was pld/war 64(taru) 63 rdm (me), Brd/sum 62, Whm/blm 64, Mnk/thf 64, Drk/Thf 63. Mp and healing issue was nearly non existant. And being a taru pld, we wanted to avoid accidental death...

[yangachi]

Originally posted by Icemage
I'd say that /BRD25+ is only really useful if:

(1) There is no Bard in the party
(2) There is a Red Mage in the party
(3) There are at least 4 MP users in the party
(4) Someone else in the party can cast Escape


Icemage

Precisely.

I've been a WHM/BRD since release, and eventually quit my WHM after level 50 (which was when /BRD was supposed to be best). I always bought MP+ gear, so I wouldn't suffer of not having a /BLM, and in many parties even had more MP than RDM/WHMs.

[locus]

Finale's chance of working is actually more like 1/3 on IT monsters.

I've already told you before that sub BRD has it's uses, but you haven't found them all yet, it appears. Sub BRD, like sub BLM, finds it easy to stick debuffs on enemies weak versus the therenody element. There ARE occasions this can come in useful - beetles are weak versus light and you can land dark therenody easily. This helps Aspir and Drain for other casters. Similiarly, BLM sub can almost always land a weak elemental debuff (frost choke etc etc) if an enemy is weak against it, even if the enemy happens to be IT. The success rate is close to 100% provided you cast the right therenody. (of course a real bard could pretty well stick whichever therenody he wanted.)

As mentioned before, let the RDM sub bard since he has fast cast. It also ensures that the party has 4mp/3sec in one person. The only times I'd needed to sub bard were 68-70ish when we were fighting high evasion maledictors and madrigal was kind of a necessity.

Escape isn't as important later on as you'd think. You can't Escape in Ro Maeve, you can't escape in the Ru Aun Gardens, you can't Escape in Terrigan nor the Valley of Sorrows. Usually, teleport is good enough if everything falls to pieces.

Every sub has it's uses, it's just that most of them are horribly limited. The best way is to experiment for yourself.

[Icemage]

Regarding Threnodies... I really think it depends on what you're fighting. For instance:

Torama are weak to Earth, so yes, I can usually land Lightning Threnody on them after one or two tries. Unfortunately, they are neutral at best against lightning, so its rare to see mages hitting them with Thunder spells.

Crabs are weak to Ice and Lightning, so I can choose to land either Wind Threnody or Water Threnody on them. Wind Threnody is sometimes useful, and I'll use it if we're using a skillchain like Fragmentation, but it doesn't really help at any other time since mages are rarely blasting crabs with Wind element attacks (even on Fragmentation, they're bursting with Thunder spells, not wind)... this might be useful on something like Robber Crabs in Teriggan or Kuftal Tunnel, where the prevailing weather type is wind or tornado most of the time.

I see your point about beetles... unfortunately, I'm long past the point where XPing on beetles is an option, though I suppose if I had started earlier I could have used Dark Threnody on them.

I do keep a Threnody macro slot available on the occasions when its useful and generally fling one at a monster when I have a spare moment, but it is unfortunate that there are only a handful of places where it works reliably and produces any noticeable effect.


Icemage

[Theiry]

This is cool =) I've been planning on White Mage / Bard for a long time (though I'll play Bard and Thief mainly) and I always assumed people would tell me I'm an idiot. They probably still will.. but at least there are some other people that play it. =)

Anyway, songs don't stick very well on IT monsters (unless their weak to the type), but how well do they stick on other monsters? I know I won't be leveling against anything else much, but I was wondering if I could sleep Even Matches, or at least Easy Prey. You know, in case I have to walk past something that would agro me. (not that Sneak / Invis / Deodorize wouldn't work =P ). Plus, I plan to play just with my brother quite often (he'll be a Red Mage while I'm a White), so it would be really nice to be able to Threnody and Requiem the monsters he's fighting.

[Icemage]

Against monsters which are neutral to the element you are basing a threnody on, the success rate is very low, and gets lower with more levels. If you're singing a song which is based on an element the monster is strong against, it will almost never stick.

You can still exploit weaknesses, though - the key is knowing what songs can be used. For instance, Lullaby actually works fairly often against monsters weak to light, like Anticans and Bats, even when sung from a /BRD sub.


Icemage

[Theiry]

Oh yeah, I didn't even think about monsters weak against light. So that means you would have a really good chance of sleeping an Easy Bogy or Ghoul or something right? Would I have a better chance of landing sleep on other things by hitting them with a Light Threnody first?