Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

[Palin2222]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

I have done a bit of work with /brd pre-50. Here are some things that are worth noting. /brd will work real well if you have a Ninja tank. With their Shadows and what not, you will not have to cure as much and you will actually have the time to sing the song. With any other tank, I feel, that you and your party can beinifit more from having more MP, as with /blm or /smn. Also like Icemage said it is all about bugeting your time. things can get kind of hectic out there, and you dont want your tank dipping into red while your in the middle of a song.

But given that most parties I give the option to (/blm or /brd) want me as a /brd. I would say that Madrigal is really worth it.

[Muu Yi]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

From levels 1-12 I was White Mage/Monk. The obvious thing most people ask me when they wonder why I would do that deals with the fact that White Mage can't equip Hand-to-hand weapons anyway so why bother with Martial Arts at all? Well consider that all low level Hand-to-hand weapons don't add much base damage anyways and the attack delay of bare hands with Martial Arts I is 400 and you hit twice each attack round with Martial Arts and you'll start to get the picture. Not only that, but given the choice of single-hit elemental based weaponskills versus a 3-hit non-elemental weaponskill I'd rather choose the 3-hitter because it has potential for more damage. Having Monk's combat skills capped is a very good idea before you attempt this combination but soloing Monk to at least level 5 is not hard at all. I'd also eat cheap attack food like Grilled Hare as this job, mostly because I am Mithra but I imagine the attack boost work well for any race. This combination really starts to shine at level 7 when you are able to also buff your defense with Protect as well as lower a mob's defense with Dia, you have virtually no down-time and can even take on stronger mobs than even most melee jobs at your level would die to if they were attacked by one. I don't really want to brag, but one time when I was soloing as this job combination at lvl 7 White Mage/Monk I saw a level 9 Warrior/No Subjob fighting a Orc that checked as 'Tough' to me. He died fairly quickly and had barely dented the Orc's HP I rested to full HP/MP, and checked that I had a bit of TP left from previous battles then went and snuck up on and engaged the Orc who had recovered to full HP by this time. I had to Cure a couple of times as the Orcs damage was pretty high even at low levels, but as soon as I hit 100% TP and used Combo the Orc fell. Since White Mage don't really need to use their Weapons in battle for the majority of their Exp Career, this can be a great way to get to the level where you can start looking for a party and sub another mage job instead. After level 10 it's up to you whether or not to keep soloing, but if you do Monk subjob will also give you access to Boost which when stacked up can give your first set of punches extra attack as well.

Regarding Black Mage subjob:
I'm also a fan of using Black Mage as a subjob in most exp parties and even for solo. Before level 50 and Auto-Refresh it beats Summoner hands down. Elemental Seal is very useful in making my Enfeebling Magic 'Stick'. For example in the Promyvion-Holla BCNM, I was whm/blm and I Elemental Seal + Paralyze at the very start and the boss stayed Paralyzed for the entire fight saving my melees a lot of HPs whenever it got paralyzed and compounded the effects of the anima we had. From 45-57 exp parties will be fighting mostly Beetles or Crabs and both of these mobs are Aspir-able, you won't Aspir much against IT mobs with subbed Dark Magic, but every little bit helps. And after 51 equip Dark Staff when casting Aspir or Drain is a very good idea. At 40 or higher Spike Spells also become useful for soloing as well, Ice Spikes can make the mob attacking you Paralyzed and Shock spikes can Stun them without you having to actually cast on them. I also use Black Mage sub to Magic Burst, after you get Magic Attack Bonus, it's not a complete waste to cast level 1 Magic on skillchain effects. In one of my parties that was whm/blm, blm/rdm, drk/war, nin/war, rdm/blm, and thf/nin everyone could Magic Burst and everybody did it at least once, except for the Black Mage who spent all his MP casting Freeze out of synch from everyone else <.<; In parties without Black Mage main I've even done elemental enfeebles like Rasp so that tank doesn't get hit as often and Shock to help Red Mage land initial enfeebling magic, I don't do that as often now however as those don't last very long anymore so aren't worth the MP and I have to activate Elemental Seal before it. Bind and Sleep are also very useful enfeebles for beating a hasty retreat, I helped the rdm/nin kite one of the mammets when doing that battle for CoP as it was possible to Bind the mammets although you have to force them into a job that doesn't have a long-range attack.

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

Okay, I firmly believe that there are situations where /blm is more useful than /smn and visa versa. I personaly prefer BLM just because I like BLM more. I will leave each person to determine what all this means for them, BUT...

I wanted to know just how much or how little I save with conserve MP over auto regen, and I have to admit I was a little surprised at the difference. I only ran the test for half an hour because casting spells over and over is... well... boring. But when I'm in a mood I'll do something a little more accurate (such as casting a variety of spells that i use during XP party, etc.).

Anyhow, here's the info i came up with. Everyone do with it what you will when determine which sub is best for you.

Auto Regen:
Proc. Rate 100%
1mp / 3sec, 20mp / 1min
600 MP/half hour
Total MP Gained: 600 MP

Conserve MP (casting cure five repeatedly, ~30min):
17, 0, 60, 0, 26, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 18, 0, 65, 0, 0, 0, 0

Proc. Rate: ~25%
Total MP Saved: 186

Conclusion: From a purely 100% MP perspective /smn is the way to go. Granted, this doesn't address the issue of the support spells etc, etc., but there you have it.

[Ayrlie]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

i have also tried blu and pld while soloing EP skeletons in garliage citadel. only benefit subbing BLU is cocoon, which increases your defense by 25% for 1 minute. pld you will get auto-refresh but not until level 70. you get shield mastery at 60.

[Elenim]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

I've been experimenting with a Blu sub at lower levels. My blm is only lvl 7 and my smn is lvl 5 so I used rdm to lvl up to 16. At 16 i decided to try out Blu i ended up with more HP, MP, MND, and VIT than if i had a RDM sub. I also had access to cocoon which increases def by 50% not 25% and metallic body, well before i got stoneskin. Aggro through the Qufim levels bounces around something fierce and being able to take a few hits without causing too much of a scare is worth the loss of a couple MP from not having a smn or blm sub. Granted at lvl 34 i might decide to level up a BLM for warp, but that sub doesn't really shine til 40 when it gets conserve MP.

All and all i can say that Blu is a very viable sub til 39.

[drivebye]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

I am a whm 30/ rdm 15 and I am trying to get my first physical attacking job. Any Suggestions. I was thinking dragoon but i am having trouble finding help with the quest itself..

[Tetra~]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

Every sub is situational. There is never a better sub than another except in different situationa and playstyle. Even war sub is good depending on situations like leveling staff skill for double attack. Even thf sub can be good in parties if the party is good enough and you can actually hit with a staff. SA + Spirit Taker is one of the greatest things for a whm especially in all the new roaming party situations. You just have to look at what your going to do and try to have as many options available to yourself as you can. No one will ever be right or wrong because every sub can have its place.

[Faylen]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

my WHM is only 22 but i have been subbing /BLU... mainly due to the fact i have LS members who want me to catch them for a low lvl static and blm smn and rdm all lvl10 or less. /Blu is working well for me right now but i do see the benefits of all 3 other subs. As Elvaan I of course have the lower MP pool but from reading this WHM forum have read alot of suggestions about using hmp gear, this helps a huge amount. Mainly just wanted to say thanks for all the great info on here, without the locked in attitudes of "it's always been this way, no you cannot try something different".

Also as a pld i do have a great amount of respect for WHMs and i will be lvling all the subs possible so i don't end up letting party down if they need me to have something else.

[Truece]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

I finally had a chance to really test /SCH in dynamis last night. The result: ME LIKEY!!!

Previously, I had been going /SMN so that I could take advantage of Auto-Refresh. When /SMN, I missed Aspir, but ultimately, as /BLM I could only really Aspir decently once every 10 minutes.

Of course, I kept Light Arts up all of the time (unless I was casting Aspir). The 1-minute recast on Dark Arts and Aspir, and the B+ skill with Dark Arts active really had an impact on the amount of MP I could get from the mobs. With my mediocre INT gear & Dark Staff, I was regularly getting returns of 60-80 MP with highs near 130 (which is phenomenal, imho) and lows around 20. However, even the low results were only slightly worse than the 20MP/minute of Auto-Refresh. Plus, the one minute recast was just about perfect for the timing of the pulls; about as soon as my Aspir timer would be up, the puller would be bringing back more Aspir-fodder.

Also the slight reduction in casting time/recast helped when sleeping mobs or pets ( Repose! ).

I found myself using Penury most often when reapplying buffs (especially RR3) or when dishing out the occasional Raise. It's hard to beat a 125 MP Raise III! I was especially thankful for Penury after I was KO'd, reraised, then didn't have enough MP for a RR; pop Penury and I'm all set!

I didn't use Celerity at all since MP was often more of a concern than casting time, but I can see how it could be useful if I could keep my wits and activate it before popping off a Curaga.

I wish I had access to /SCH when I was levelling WHM back in the day. I haven't tried /SCH in an XP setting yet, but I'm almost certain that /SCH will be my subjob of choice from now on!

[Icemage]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

I've been using /SCH exclusively since I levelled it past 10. It's an extremely potent subjob. More effective than /BLM, /BRD, or /SMN in virtually every situation now.

If you have the wherewithal to acquire the Scholar subjob and are considering levelling WHM, do so. You will NOT be disappointed.


Icemage

[Audioma]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

If only whole experience parties weren't nagging at me for NOT having /sch.


Just another downside to starting FF late ;_;