White Warriors

[Kailea]

OK I am nuts.....and even I would agree that a WHM hiting stuff = bad :p I am PLD right now but will be changeing over to my lv9 WHM, and I will plan on useing my wand I have untill forever lol it gives +4 to MND and since I wont be attacking atl all, I dont mind that it has 5 atk lol (not sure on atk I forgot the name of the wand)

and when I level WHM I want to keep my club class at a decent level, what are some good ways to do so wile in a party?

I am going to start by subing PLD to see if it will make any bit of diffrence so I can fight as well lol, but trust me first sign of trouble and I will disengage and move back from the mob ^.^

[Yuanlung]

and when I level WHM I want to keep my club class at a decent level, what are some good ways to do so wile in a party?

That's when you join a skill up party rather then a level up party. This usually involves a strong tanker taking alone 5 who wants to level up their skills. The usual rule of the party is to bring fast and low damage weapons so the monster survives longer and you get more skill. And you should not be using multi-hit WS in such party.


I have been able to keep my melee stats capped this way, without penalizing my level up party.

[Kailea]

thank you for the info Yuanlung, good thing for my LS to do togeather :p

[Gryff]

i'm a 63 whm 35 blm with around 135 skill in staff and club. I keep my weapon levels up by going on coffer parties with my linkshell etc.

When i hit level 67 i'm going to be doing nothing but weapon skilling for hexa strike >.<

Generally i have a club for stat boosts and exping and a stff ( battle staff ) for doing damage while farming and whatever.

Melee'ing in an xp party is stupid, you impair your parties efficiency no matter how you look at it.

[Miriamel]

Re: WHM melee

Originally posted by Claritin

Can a WHM out damage a RDM/WHM? No.

Actually, I easily outdamage a RDM59/WHM28 on my server. ^^' I agree with the rest of what you said, though.

[Lyonesse]

Can a WHM out damage a PLD/WAR? No.

Actually, incorrect up until 50 (when you're using a 1h sword) IMO. A WHM with similar equipment (attack boosting and highest DMG weapons they can get, 1h style) and food that melees use will keep up with a PLD if not outdamage him on occasion. When the stronger 1h swords come into play at 50, this becomes different but WHMs can and still keep up with my in damage if they're playing their cards right up to that point. I did the same with my WHM in keeping up with PLD/WARs at 30-35 and I still see properly trained WHMs with the right stuff do as much as me now.

The question of them doing their job or not is another story but that's an entirely different scenario.

[Synbios]

After the PLD use defender, he'd be happy if he did more than 10 damage. WHMs with a hammer can easily deal more than 10. Maybe PLDs should not bother attacking too, just stand there, and taunt and cure and stuff, I hardly see Vorpal or Swift dealing more than 100 damage anyway.

One reason why WHMs should melee.


For farming.

[Russta]

A good WHM will know when they can get away with fighting and when they cannot. Me and the two people I party with have taken all of our last parties to Gustav for bone raping parties so with the threat of ~ga spells, blood saber and that black cloud shit it wasn't worth it. Last night we went to fight lizards in Rancor Den so I was happily able to fight and skill up. Just do yourself a favour and do not kid yourself you're fighting to damage the enemy, you should be looking at the bigger picture of having Hexastrike outside of parties. I can't stress how good Hexastrike is, it will make everything you ever want to do on your own ten times easier.

Never fight when you have a Bard unless you understand the hierachy of songs and are prepared to work hard.

Never ever think your TP is more important than your MP. Rest after every battle.

[Trimpton]

Lyon -

Just a question about WHM out damaging PLD.

Why would any WHM in their right mind drop +mp/mnd gear for atk gear best dmg and no use manafood for melee food?

Well a good PLD shouldnt be using ATK Gear nor ATK food, they should have nothing but Vit and Def gear with Def Food. So a whm was using those a PLD would get to and outdmg a WHM easily.

Even if you did outdamage a Paladin thats not so amazing -- They arent meant to deal dmg they are meant to take it. Since they use swords they can add to renkei and the extra damage builds hate (Which is why the whm should not be attacking.)

Magic Urns are "to weak" to a 45. And Melee for farming(as said below) was never disbuted -- WHM need to farm for spells.

--

I could rant about how stupid it is for a WHM to attack while in XP party but its been covered although missing a few points even still. The cost far far far outweigh the benefits... if you wanted to attack play a rdm not a whm. The simple fact is, I dont care how much you want to believe you are healing less, and resting less, and giving mobs more TP when fighting... so there should be no reason to do so in XP party.

If you want to build your skill, do it while farming for those "Expensive" spells.

[Cedri]

Ok yeah a whm cant melee very well but however if you have a pld meleeing and healing him/herself while provoking that's a lot of aggro I dont melee all the time, but I do melee when that happens. I dont usally get aggro in that kind of party, which is strange I know. My rock crusher is also good for skill chains with a drk.

[Synbios]

Originally posted by StarvingArtist


Whenever my level up party is discussing the renkei, I still joke "ƒwƒLƒT > ‘o—³ w" (Hex > Dragon Kick lol)

I do this quite often too.

[Dalmonth]

One of these bafoons caused my precious xp last night while thf leveling in valkrum....the group was downhill to begin with but the first fight the whm particpated in i died because he was constanly meleeing and casting banish insted of healing! he let me die because he'd rather cast banish than cure, and get really mad when i suggest he heal insted of banish, banish, banish, cureII :mad:

[Synbios]

Originally posted by Trimpton
Lyon -

Just a question about WHM out damaging PLD.

Why would any WHM in their right mind drop +mp/mnd gear for atk gear best dmg and no use manafood for melee food?

Well a good PLD shouldnt be using ATK Gear nor ATK food, they should have nothing but Vit and Def gear with Def Food. So a whm was using those a PLD would get to and outdmg a WHM easily.

Even if you did outdamage a Paladin thats not so amazing -- They arent meant to deal dmg they are meant to take it. Since they use swords they can add to renkei and the extra damage builds hate (Which is why the whm should not be attacking.)

Magic Urns are "to weak" to a 45. And Melee for farming(as said below) was never disbuted -- WHM need to farm for spells.

--

I could rant about how stupid it is for a WHM to attack while in XP party but its been covered although missing a few points even still. The cost far far far outweigh the benefits... if you wanted to attack play a rdm not a whm. The simple fact is, I dont care how much you want to believe you are healing less, and resting less, and giving mobs more TP when fighting... so there should be no reason to do so in XP party.

If you want to build your skill, do it while farming for those "Expensive" spells.

How much hate will a PLD get when his WS does less damage than one twark of a bow? How are we suppose to farm when our skill isn't updated and even "Too weak" mobs can rape WHMs up easily, even at 75, I don't think a WHM can solo a "Too weak" which will give us skill up to around 200, or do you expect WHMs to spend 10 mins hitting one Kuftal Robber and use up all their MP to barely survive and rest another 10 mins, farming indeed. As for the urn, it's not whether it's too weak or not, but except for an Ancient Magic, I don't think any mage can do 4 digits on any too weak mobs. I don't care about what you think, go play a mage, and farm as one, before you rant on mages meleeing.

[Lyonesse]

Why would any WHM in their right mind drop +mp/mnd gear for atk gear best dmg and no use manafood for melee food?

You might want to refer to my other post about tips but essentially, you wouldn't drop that gear. You'd have it with you and have it macro'd to move make it easier to access. When you're casting, have your MP/MND gear on. When you switch gears to fight, equip your attack gear. I do this with all my classes because I can change my role on the go. If I need an extra shot of MP for my PLD (when I'm not tanking) I equip my RSE and other MP boosting equipment for more casting.

Ideally, all the classes with magic should be carrying some MP boosting gear (IMO) so they can supplment their magic when they need to. The same principle applies to WHMs that want to fight. Carry equipment that they use to melee and switch when you're fighting and switch back when you're casting. I'm not saying that you shouldn't have it but that you should drop MND/MP gear but that you should have fighting gear with you.

Well a good PLD shouldnt be using ATK Gear nor ATK food, they should have nothing but Vit and Def gear with Def Food. So a whm was using those a PLD would get to and outdmg a WHM easily.

A good PLD will adjust to the situation accordingly.

As any PLD should know, defense has a diminishing return threshold where significant defense boosts will result in negilible damage reduction. PLDs can reach this very often (I actually have a ton of times below 50) and rather than just pounding on more defense I put on some attack equipment to supplement my damage. Of course, damage helps to generate aggro and since the damage is remaining relatively constant no matter how much more defense I stack on, tacking on attack items to help generate aggro through damage is a better idea IMO.

Totally ignoring attack power for a PLD is a bad idea IMO as then you can't generate aggro (or very little) through damage. You then become dependent on MP and your provoke but that isn't quite helpful.

Where have you been Starving? =P I was waiting for you to chime up. At any rate, Starving is saying what I have been saying the entire time. There's a time and place for a WHM to do something. WHMs aren't paper thin, they're a sturdy class that can do some damage (significant is another matter) and take a few hits. It's definitely not wanted but it's not like WHMs can't on occasion. We're not like those sucky BLMs that have absolutely zero melee capabilitiy =D.

[Icemage]

Lyonesse, it is painfully obvious to me that you've never fought anything at level 51+.

While Hexa Strike is truly an impressive weapon skill, you will almost never, ever get to use it in a good XP party. It's almost impossible to get 100% TP when chaining ITs. Like StarvingArtist, I like to engage enemies from time to time when its safe to do so, but with no accuracy gear on, I land maybe 1 attack in 4, and half the time I hit for 0 damage because my Attack and Damage scores are just way too low.

Even if I wield a decent hammer, wear some attack/accuracy gear, and eat a meat mithkabob, that still means I hit maybe twice as often for a couple extra damage.

Considering that against IT enemies, I average around 10% TP at the end of each battle, using all of the above might put me at (let's be kind), 50% TP. So now the battle is over, and I have to rest. TP drains to 0 while I'm waiting for the next enemy, and so what have I gained:

~6 more hits for about 1-15 damage each. That's around 50 damage per battle, and I just handed the monster more TP to do something fun and amusing like Big Scissors or Ripper Fang (which will cost me, as primary healer, at LEAST 25MP to counteract, sometimes far more - I've seen a level ~64 Velociraptor hit a PLD tank for 500+ damage with Defender, Sentinel and a Fish Mithkabob. That costs a lot of MP to heal, folks).

All the while, because I'm wearing +attack/damage gear instead of +MP/MND, my Cures are less effective, my Enfeebles like Slow/Paralyze/Silence aren't sticking at all, and I've got a lot less MP to work with because I'm losing 25-100MP more per fight to make up for the extra WS I just handed the monster.

Sounds like a winning combination to me.

---

There's nothing wrong with meleeing intelligently against monsters who can't do area attacks and who have relatively weak specials, but from a performance standpoint, you pay a price for the damage that you deal - sometimes a very steep price.

Unfortunately, the higher the level the enemy, the higher that price becomes. Use common sense before you pull out your weapon - doing so can have a significant impact on how much MP you have to spend, as well as how effective your spells are as a healer.


Icemage