White Warriors

[Cedri]

I'm one of thoes odd meleeing whms. I have some problems with mp also. Hp is above 400 and mp is just above 200 I really wanna keep my 100+ attack and my 100 defence that I have. Is there any gear that will help my mp but allow me to still keep my attack and defence?
My current equipment is:

Linnen robe
2 bone earings
San d'Orian Ring
Asteics ring
(noob rings like all hell!)
Windurstrian Pole
Black slacks
Light Solea
Blood stone
Cotten cape
Justice Badge
Silver hairpin
Gloves(just streight Gloves)

[killerkitten]

Not to offend you or anything, but I'd say if you want to be a meleeing WHM, you would be much better off being a paladin. WHMs in this game just weren't meant to fight in parties, and I imagine most other players would get rather annoyed with a WHM that doesn't just stick to the back lines and cure/buff/debuff/etc. As a paladin you can take a lot of hits, do decent damage (usually) and do most of the same cures as a WHM of your level.







-----------------------------
Pandia -- Lvl 20 WHM/10 BLM, Asura, Windurst
Lola -- Lvl 5 THF, Asura, Windurst

[zaldane]

i like to melee when i farm, been doing harder farms to built up skills, those are long ass fights.

[Cedri]

I accualy join parties that dont mind me meleeing and sumtimes when I feel lazy I just cure. Like rightnow I'm hunting in the Yothor Jungle and I accualy do some decient damage. I'm like that hair that broke the camels back. Oh and by the way I dont like PLD very much.

[Toede]

the most obvious thing to me if you want to get more MP is...

LEVEL YOUR SUBJOB!! whatever it may be, BLM, or SMN. thats the easy and free way to get more MP...

[Yuanlung]

meleeing whm.. :sweat:

A paladin in my link was just complaining about one of those last night. Personally I'd immediate look for a replacement healer if I ever see our whm runs into the front line with a stick. (well, no, not really, because my wife's my dedicated whm and if I kick her there will be hell to pay, but fortunately, she never melees in party.)


Disclaimer: This is not a personal attack on anyone. I am merely offering what I have learned so far from participating in exp parties.


WHM always have to deal with aggro problems. many times they already stay on the border line of getting aggroed from all the healing already. So why would you want to further increase your share of hate by meleeing? Some argue that since whm does so little damage, the aggro from meleeing is neglectable. Then what's the point, I'd ask, for you to waste time to be there in the front rank? OTOH, if you are doing significant damage, then you would be getting a significant amount of additional aggro.


Fighting in the frontline also risks being hit by an area attack, or worse even, a powerful special freak attack that puts you down in 1 hit. I don't know about the parties you have been in, but in my parties, people get stressed out if the whm keeps getting damaged. Also some the mobs do status AoE, such as silence, sleep (mandragoras, anyone?), or curse. It certainly does not help the party when you are hit with one of these with them and cannot restore their status because you are silenced/sleeping.


A big factor on how long your party can go without a full heal is the WHM's mp. The more you have everyone sitting, the less efficient you are. A good WHM would utilize spells like regen to allow time to recover MP during the fight. It gets better if you have 1 or 2 other mages to support so you can take turn resting. This is another thing you lose out on when you melee.


IMO, fighting in the front line as a whm is just silly, and to put bluntly, inconciderate for the other party members who might actually be in a party as efficient as it can be. If it works out for you and your party doesn't object, then hey, good for you for trying to be different, am I am impressed that you are able to make it work up to this level.


I try out wired things too. I even own a blm sword. It's a lot of fun when I pull it out and unleashes a burning blade, but I would never do that in a party.

[snoop1050]

WHM always have to deal with aggro problems. many times they already stay on the border line of getting aggroed from all the healing already

If that happening im obviously in a crap party.

Also some the mobs do status AoE, such as silence, sleep (mandragoras, anyone?), or curse. It certainly does not help the party when you are hit with one of these with them and cannot restore their status because you are silenced/sleeping.

WHM obviously dont melee against mob's like that unless there really stupid.

A good WHM would utilize spells like regen to allow time to recover MP during the fight. It gets better if you have 1 or 2 other mages to support so you can take turn resting. This is another thing you lose out on when you melee

Regen isnt enough to keep up with the damage the tank is taking.
taking turns resting with another WHM then your party isnt set up right ,ever heard of RDM with refresh? bard with mages ballad?
what about WHM WS that has AOE MP gain for party?

IMO, fighting in the front line as a whm is just silly, and to put bluntly, inconciderate for the other party members who might actually be in a party as efficient as it can be.

its inconciderate to have some fun? i dont play the game to sit back hitting the same few macros over and over again beeing completly bored .its selfish to expect the WHM to force himself to play because computer games are suposed to be entertainment not something you have to force your self to play.

Btw im a level 41 hume whm.
you really want whm to make the party as efficient as in can be at his expense of enjoying the game?

[Yuanlung]

WHM obviously dont melee against mob's like that unless there really stupid.

Which is just almost everything that's worth anything. Most of them will have something under their sleeve that you don't want your whm to be the target of.

Regen isnt enough to keep up with the damage the tank is taking.

of course not. there is a reason why you have the cure spells. It just helps to create gaps in which the whm can get some mp back between casts.

its inconciderate to have some fun?

You'd probably think so when someone toilet papered your house for fun. I am not against having fun, but having fun at other people in the party is just inconciderate. We are all there to play the game.

i dont play the game to sit back hitting the same few macros over and over again beeing completly bored .its selfish to expect the WHM to force himself to play because computer games are suposed to be entertainment not something you have to force your self to play.

Then don't. noone is *forcing* you to be a good whm, or just a whm. If you find curing in the back row boring, then swap out your war for some hack-n-slash action.

What would you think if, on the flip side, your tanker decided that he "don't play the game to [stand in front] hitting the same few macros over and over....", stops voking and pulls out a boomerrang?

The point is, noone is *forcing* anyone to doing anything. If you don't want to fill the role of a hear, fine. I will just find someone else who is up to the job. You go have your fun with someone who would have you.

you really want whm to make the party as efficient as in can be at his expense of enjoying the game?

Nope. I wouldn't want a whm, or anyone for that matter, in my party if they aren't enjoying the game. I don't want to deal with the constant complains.

I also don't ecpect the rest of the party to have their night of gaming ruined because a single whm wants to swing at the monster with a hammer instead of curing everyone from the back row like he/she should.

[Macht]

If a person is a WHM as a main job and going out as a melee, that spells disaster in the higher up level monsters. If you look at all the best equipment for a WHM (having + WIS) none of it is any good for defense. A WHM trying to be the best healer they can possibly be doing melee will get him killed often latter on. As a warning to that any WHM who tries to blame the WAR with his provoke or a PLD not guarding them, simply it's their own fault.

If you really want to be a melee class and be capable of casting heals then doing PLD/WHM is probably the best option. Even then though you'll only have around 200 mp when PLD reaches the level your Main is right now (as long as a mage class is subbed as well).

Even then you'll have even better defense your attack will be less effecient and your healing will be only best for trying to draw and keep aggro (with a thf using sneak + trick keeping aggro shouldn't be a problem at all) at the same time restoring anyone who may of incurred damage to save the WHM some MP (if properly coordinated).

If you truely want to have a huge amount of MP and be a great healer then you have to give-up all trace of melee, be a WHM/SMN, and hord as much WIS as you can get..

[snoop1050]

Which is just almost everything that's worth anything. Most of them will have something under their sleeve that you don't want your whm to be the target of.

alot of them can be stopped by a dark casting stun
if you really believe everything at my level has a really nasty attack thats worth fighting ,i think your partys have been fighting in the wrong area's. at the moment ive been in gustav tunnel alot fighting goblin's which only do bombtoss which has always 100% successfully been stoped by the dark casting stun ,and ive always had stone skin on me and barfira on the party so any dmg from an AOE wouldnt even touch my hp.

of course not. there is a reason why you have the cure spells. It just helps to create gaps in which the whm can get some mp back between casts.

at my level regen isnt enough to give a 20second break for even one tick of mp.
maybe when i get regen 2 but with a rdm using convert and refresh theres no need to sit down they can always keep my mp up. obviously i would stop meleeing when the mob isnt going to last much longer to restore some mp but rdm can usually keep me above 50% ,also partys im in are usually chaining so fast that every few chains there will be a rest period while we wait for something to spawn.

You'd probably think so when someone toilet papered your house for fun. I am not against having fun, but having fun at other people in the party is just inconciderate. We are all there to play the game.

im not having fun at anyones expense if the party is chaining well ,no one is coming close to dieing ,my mp is always kept above 50% if theres a rest period its because we run out of mobs not mp.

Then don't. noone is *forcing* you to be a good whm, or just a whm. If you find curing in the back row boring, then swap out your war for some hack-n-slash action.

i have my macros set up like "/ma "Cure II" <p1>" etc its not like its any slower to cast while meleeing for me it doesnt matter where im standing casting is always at the same speed
just because a whm melee's doesnt ,mean he is a bad WHM ,i could argue that im showing my jobs true potential because the little 10-20 dmg i do isnt enough to really draw to much hate but it can speed up the chain's.

I also don't ecpect the rest of the party to have their night of gaming ruined because a single whm wants to swing at the monster with a hammer instead of curing everyone from the back row like he/she should.

who says whm should stand at the back only curing?

btw im curious what job and level are you macht?

I would really like to hear the opinion of 50+ WHM on meleeing and how it hurt's the party.

[Navia]

At higher levels its pure suicide to be anywhere close to the monster when they can do moves like AE silence or do an ability that will oneshot kill you. The stun arguement doesn't hold any water in my opinion, stuff at higher levels can do abilities back to back that you will not be able to interrupt because you are mid cast on another spell or the recast timer for stun isnt done.

You will have more than enough hate from the monster keeping the tank alive you dont need more trying to add your weak melee damage into the mix.
If you need your melee fix, do it when you go farm elementals or something.
You only hurt your partying options becoming known as the 'WHM that melees' as you level up more.

[Xenobyte]

The simple fact is if you melee you can not rest to regen mp. Theres no other argument that can outweigh this simple fact. In a tight spot the extra 25-40 mp you could regen while the melee fighters HP goes from where you used up your last bit of mp to heal them to until they are in the bottom red, could save lives. Period.

You can retort with oh we have brd/rdm but the simple fact still is you get more mp back on top of that when resting. Theres no argument that can couteract this fact.

Edit: On my server theres only one melee mage , who happens to be a galka also, and he is taken with a grain of salt by alot of people even though he is a great guy.

[Icemage]

WHM do negligible damage in XP parties. Even though we have an A level skill with Clubs, we miss a lot, and on the rare occasions we do hit, its for a handful of damage. There is simply no way to get over this fact.

If you honestly want to deal damage, pick another job. WHM are at their best when they heal and boost ther magical power, not when they pretend to deal damage. The higher level you get, the more this becomes true.


Icemage

[snoop1050]

You only hurt your partying options becoming known as the 'WHM that melees' as you level up more.

im not known as the WHM that melee's quite the oposite i just think that if i want to melee i should have the option without beeing flamed i would never dream of trying to melee things that the party is struggling on. at my level the only really dangerous things ive encountred are doom scorpions in crawlers nest apart from them i dont think anything has had a really dangerous special attack.

The stun arguement doesn't hold any water in my opinion, stuff at higher levels can do abilities back to back that you will not be able to interrupt because you are mid cast on another spell or the recast timer for stun isnt done.

i already said i wouldnt attempt to melee against things that have aoe attacks that i know cant be stopped easily and i wouldnt attempt to melee mob's that have aoe status effects like curse ,sleep ,silence.
Stun works well against the mob's partys ive been in recently have been fighting mainly goblins in gustav tunnel. they dont do them often though maybe 3 bomb toss's a fight with barfira if they do go off its usually only 100 dmg which is absorbed by stone skin.
if i do pull out my hammer in a party its usually only for a couple of fights to keep my club skill up or to keep me awake not constant meleeing on every mob we pull
if were chaining 200exp mobs for 4-5 chains and i do melee its not really hurting the party anyway

[Xenobyte]

You melee on a chain 5 instead of resting could mean the difference between chaining 6 and not chaining 6.

Not to mention general PT downtime after chains.