WHM 30+ Main and Sub question

[Sochi]

Im currently lvl 22 WHM with lvl 8 BLM subbed for a bit extra MP

I would like to know what the good and bad points would be from having these following combos and what one u would recomend i take.

WHM/SMN heard that its good for MP refreshing

WHM/BRD Mad support choice for a party (mad being cool)

WHM/BLM No ADV job but stick with BLm for MP buff

Ne other combos u can sugest list em, im just a bit confused atm, i dont wona spend ages lvlign one and find its crap ;p

Im a heavy support player, good team worker as long as they aint stupid i will follow them :D

to all other WHM


my first post to :D

[Hitoshi]

whm/smn is a nice combo but the avatars do significantly less as a sub. I'm still thinking of doing this combo myself anyway. I've also heard it's a lot harder to start adv with just smn but it may pay off in the long run.

[ZenXIII]

Again, I'll cross post a response Icemage made: (I hope he doesn't mind)

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, there are distinct break points where different subs get significantly better for WHM due to specific spells, traits, or abilities. I've italicized the spells, abilities, and traits I think are of particular importance.

WHM/RDM: I still seem to be in the minority about this, but I think this is hands down the strongest sub prior to WHM34.

Additional combat skill: Parry

WHM16/RDM8: Spell - Blind
WHM20/RDM10: Spell - Bio
WHM20/RDM10: Trait - Resist Petrify
WHM22/RDM11: Spell - Bind
WHM30/RDM15: Trait - Fast Cast I
WHM40/RDM20: Trait - Magic Attack Up I
WHM42/RDM21: Spell - Gravity
WHM50/RDM25: Spell - Sleep
WHM50/RDM25: Trait - Magic Defense Up I
WHM60/RDM30: Trait - Resist Petrify II
WHM62/RDM31: Trait - Clear Mind I
WHM66/RDM33: Spell - Phalanx
WHM68/RDM34: Spell - Dispel
WHM70/RDM35: Trait - Fast Cast II


WHM/BLM: The most popular choice at high levels. Without further ado...

WHM8/BLM4: Spell - Blind
WHM14/BLM7:Spell - Bind
WHM20/BLM10: Spell - Bio
WHM20/BLM10: Trait - Magic Attack Up I
WHM30/BLM15: Trait - Clear Mind I
WHM30/BLM15: Ability - Elemental Seal
WHM34/BLM17: Spell - Warp
WHM40/BLM20: Spell - Sleep
WHM40/BLM20: Trait - Conserve MP
WHM50/BLM25: Spell - Tractor
WHM58/BLM29: Spell - Escape
WHM60/BLM30: Trait - Magic Attack Up II
WHM62/BLM31: Spell - Sleepga


WHM/SMN: The cure tank specialists among white mages, they are intensely focused on MP, at the cost of flexibility.

WHM20/SMN10: Trait -MP Boost I
WHM40/SMN20: Trait - Resist Slow
WHM30/SMN15: Trait - Clear Mind I
WHM50/SMN25: Trait - MP Refresh
WHM50/SMN25: Ability - Garuda - Vacuum Armor(party Blink)
WHM60/SMN30: Trait - Clear Mind II
WHM60/SMN30: Trait -MP Boost II

Hopefully this helps people understand what you get, in practical terms, from each subjob as a WHM.


Icemage

As for WHM/BRD .. subbing brd is never a good idea as you lose the instrument.
Bard is *best* when a main, but of course, you can do whatever you like!
And if you like your job combo, you'll like the game.
These are just suggestions.

[Calianeri]

I've played with a couple WHM/SMN over the last few days (levels 26-34). It's not a very helpful combination in my opinion. Two of them had stopped leveling SMN at 10 (for the first MP boost), because leveling SMN sucks when you only have Carbuncle. That was dumb, and one of them even said he regretted using /SMN. The third WHM/SMN had a little more MP than I did (WHM/BLM), but was missing Blind, elemental spells to help on MBs, Bind, etc. And his Carbuncle was just a joke when he summoned it - dead in 1 hit from a Smithy. I didn't really see much benefit in return, particularly to a Taru. For an elvaan, there may be a stronger reason to go this route.

I'm going to try out /SMN at some point, I'm not saying it's all bad. But it will be just for fun until my WHM is above 50, because I think Auto-Refresh and blinkga are worth testing out.

Whatever subjob you use, though, keep it fully leveled -- for your sake and your partys'.

[Soonyi]

Also, Calianeri cleared things up for me in another post that /Brd cannot use instruments; so you can only sing and cast one enhancement only instead of two. I saw a 60Brd/30Whm one time, and it looks like he would be a very powerful support character.

Soonyi.

[Dux]

Originally posted by ZenXIII
As for WHM/BRD .. subbing brd is never a good idea as you lose the instrument.

Hi.

I haven't actually seen a Bard yet, so can you please explain what this "instrument" is and why it is significant that it is not their when Bard is sub'd.

Thanks.

[hero]

some of the bard spells require different types of instruments to play them, and items can only be equipped corresponding to your main job.

for instance, one song you may need a wind instrument, but because you aren't a BRD/??? you'll never be able to equip the wind instrument to sing the song.

hope i didn't confuse anyone with the explanation

[Dux]

Oh well thats not very good then is it.

[Leri]

Calianari, as a Taru yes I can see how WHM/SMN would be a loss.

However the other races can match a WHM/BLM Taru's MP with the /SMN as a subjob. We sacrifice the enfeebling black magic to do it however. I'm working on my RSE right now and with it I will have about as much MP as I do HP. (around 400 each)

Please note this is only at like 30~32 I'm not sure at higher levels. I know that Taru's MP is supposed to skyrocket I will see where I land in that as a Hume. But right now I have outdone of some Tarutaru WHM/BLM of my same level in the MP counts because I keep my /SMN up to date. Granted that is prolly their fault for not keeping their /BLM up to date.

The main point of /SMN IS the MP count so for a Taru it may seem like overkill. :sweat:

In the end you should really give it a try. All my equip is practically +MP to. With the right equip, pies and /SMN subjob the other races can inch closer to a Tarutaru's MP. Alot you would ask why i just didn't pick taru heh. Truth is I tried it, and I like my hume better.

[Junun]

Uhm, I am a level 35 bard and I have yet to get a song that "requires" a certain instrument. The benefit with instruments is that different instruments have different mods to songs. For example Mary's Horn has a lullaby+1 mod on it. What it does is effectively double the duration of sleep songs. There are many other instruments that enhance other songs.

[Calianeri]

Taru's MP advantage is so huge it's hard to play catch-up. But /SMN can certainly help for humes, mithras and elvaans. (I mentioned Elvaans in my post as an example.) First, you have to realize that it doesn't add as much MP as some people think, and only gets extra boosts at main job levels 20 and 60. Then you have to accept the trade-offs, and I think those races shouldn't give up BLM or RDM spells/abilities too quickly. For Tarus I think the reasons to sub SMN are weaker. But like I said, I'll give it a fair shot when there are some potential advantages (above levels 50 and 60). Problem is that you've got to be 60+ to get the summons other than Carbuncle.

And it's just embarrassing to see WHM40/SMN11 or BLM32/SMN10 seeking in Jeuno. All mages should have fully-leveled subs, or else you're simply dragging down your party. At that point, it really doesn't matter what type of mage sub you choose. :sweat:

[rewo]

/agree Calineri. There is no excuse for an under leveled subjob.

A point on bard instruments. Other than the individual song improvments, they also increase the affect distance of songs. The harp being large area and the flute/horn/piccolo being shorter(although having a larger area than just singing). Useful when you need to hit the entire group with regen songs.