TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

[ShadowHolyFlyingDragon]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

WAR/NIN is useful, and has been shown repeatedly in exp. parties over and over again. Without a doubt, WAR/NIN works.

......

In order for WAR/THF (level 30~40) to work, the party as a whole needs to dump heavy damages (spike damage or nukes) at the mob right after SA + Sturmwind.

When executed properly, WAR/THF at level 30-ish range does not take much damage:

In order for the mob to deal damage on players, it needs "time" for executing the attacks.

The whole point of WAR/THF is not giving that "time" to the mob. A dead mob won't fight back.

(1) The exp. mob HP is consistent. (even if the mob can drain HP or cure itself, it does not matter as long as the party is "quick")
(2) SA + Sturmwind damage is consistent.
(3) Sneak Attack /recast is constant.
(4) The hate generate by SA + Sturmwind is consistent.

The tactic is just plan SA + Sturmwind when the mob's HP is at a certain percentage. It is okay even if the SA + Sturmwind cannot kill the mob at once, the rest of the party just need to bring down the mob as soon as possible. Since the WAR/THF can secure the hate easily after SA + Sturmwind, the rest of the party can go all out attack without worry about bouncing hate.

Once again it only works at level 30~40 range, when WAR/THF can still take some beating from exp. mobs for a short time.

I completely agree with these statements. WAR/THF, if played correctly, is not horrendous. Played WAR/THF from 37 to 50 because we had a PLD tank in static, and a good one at that, and we also had a THF in pt, so it helped for me to set up sata for a thf when I grabbed all the hate. Even if the THF didn't do a sata on pld, the pld could still grab hate. And being able to do 4-600 dmg Sturmwinds is just beautiful. We also had a SAM in the pt. It was PLD WAR THF SAM RDM WHM. We worked together beautifully. There wasn't terrible downtime, it was usually good 7-8k an hour.

I've even meripo'ed with a WAR/THF at 75 and because we had alot of heavy hitters (RNG and SAM) when he would take damage, the mob would be dead in a few moments anyway.

I agree that WAR/NIN rox too. Usually, most often than not, though it really depends, pick up parties will not be very skilled in tanking/dding and what not, so if you go WAR/THF and find the party isn't very skilled, you will more than likely end up doing better on WAR/NIN. But, it really all depends on pt setup and player skill. What works for one pt won't work for another, what works best for one, won't for another, etc etc.

It's not best to say WAR/NIN is the greatest sub ever, though, I don't think thta was ultimately inferred in these posts.

If you are new to WAR and playing it for the first time, please make sure you level both the THF sub and NIN sub and use each one judiciously and break the stereotype of noob syndrome! If your party needs you to tank, then tank. If your party has a tank, then play a big hitting DD.

Be nice to your mages and their MP and try not to get hurt too much.

[Celeal]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

Ah, I see what you mean now; if done that way the DD/THF won't take too much damage.

It seems a little inflexible, though; if, say, a SAM has Meditate up, instead of WS twice or three times in one fight, he may have to hold TP much longer for fewer WS's, or even just not use Meditate. If BLM run low on MP, does that mean the WAR will have to hold TP and/or SA longer, too, since he has to wait until lower monster HP before letting loose?

Assuming the party (level 30+) is aiming for exp. chain #5 --- from chain #0 to exp. chain #5:

Important: If the duration of a fight within the exp. chain is over the limit, the exp. chain would be lost.

Here is an example that works well with WAR/THF:

Starting exp. chain: Just fight, nothing special.

At exp. chain #1: Building up TP. If possible pull a "weaker" or "easier" mob (such as VT mob, if exists, even T mob is okay).

At chain #2: the party DD(s) as a whole unload the WS and kill the mob "quick." However don't burn "all" the party resource yet, it is needed later. Ideally, target the stronger mob (VT+ ~ IT)

Exp. chain #3: DD(s) build TP, but don't waste time.

Exp. chain #4 and 5: Unload and burn down the mobs, try to beat the clock and end the exp. chain.

Take a brief movement to recover MP, then start from beginning of exp. chain again.

If the exp. chain breaks and failed before chain #5, don't push it and try start from beginning. Even some party should settle just on exp. chain #4 and exp. gain should be good.

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From beginning to end of exp. chain, the duration should be around 5 minutes. Must practical JA /recast timer should be available at least once with the 5 minutes window. Because timing is critical, no one should be holding TP over 100% for long time, or else the exp. chain dies.

The key is to unload spike damage as a party:
When one DD leads his WS at the beginning or middle of the battle, the others with TP close to 100% (one or two swing below 100% or over slight over 100%) should follow, and then back up by Nukers (BLM, BLU, SCH, RDM, SMN, etc). With tools such as Mediate, Jumps, Barrage, Double Attack... makes the timing easiler.

The worst case of a DD is to solo spike damage (like when the rest of party is at low TP and low MP), and failed to kill the mob in a short time. Guess who ends up tanking? Even for DD/NIN, it is smarter to unload spike damage with the rest of party as a team.

[Reilk]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

Just a quick question, assuming comparable combat skills, should a warrior still use a great axe when tanking or should instead opt for a shield and axe to up his survivability?

My apologies if this has been brought up before.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

I never used a shield when I was tanking on my war. Back in the day I did dual axes and /nin.

[Reilk]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

Sorry, this is assuming that /nin is either non-accessible or non-viable (if there is such a thing )

[Takelli]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

Wont using a shield help lower the damage you take between Utsusemi casts?

[Lmnop]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

Shield + Utsu is an end game trick. Something normal Warriors should never consider.

Warrior's Shield skill is decent, but not amazing. And their shield access leaves something to be desired. I'm certain they eventually get size 3 shields, but I'm not sure how early and how viable. Regardless:

No matter what, your shield isn't gonna make you a magically invincible Paladin. It'll give you some damage reduction, but likely come close to halving your damage output.


More importantly, you're not using Shield Break, which is like "party damage +20%". If the party kills 20% faster, you took less damage by virtue of the mob attacking you 20% less.

[Malacite]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

Idk the name of the video, but some WAR/WHM was able to tank Jormy using Axe & Shield I think.

[Lmnop]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

Like I said -- "Normal Warriors".

Don't confuse the newly inducted with information that is useful if you're one of 3 guys ever.

[Armando]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

Mal, sometimes I really wonder about you. HNMs and EXP are two completely different things and usually what applies to one doesn't apply to the other.

Anyways, basically what Lmnop said. The shield skill probably isn't a factor, but Shield Break is always the better alternative where it applies, and WARs don't get a Size 3 shield until 48 anyways. By then you're right on the verge of starting ToAU melee-heavy WS spam parties anyways. By then the damage potential lost from equipping a shield is fairly big too. I'd say that losing half your damage is a pretty gross exaggeration but the loss is definitely non-negligible.

Something else I'd like to address:

this is assuming that /nin is either non-accessible or non-viable (if there is such a thing )

You probably don't want to hear it but there is no such thing. I sympathize with the difficulties you have to go through to unlock the job, get its spells and level it up, but if you can't/won't/don't want to, WAR is not the job for you.

[Malacite]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

Mal, sometimes I really wonder about you. HNMs and EXP are two completely different things and usually what applies to one doesn't apply to the other.

Your point being? I was just citing a very cool (and highly unusual) application for WAR that one guy has seemingly mastered. I couldn't believe it myself until I watched it but he was holding his own just as well as the PLD.

[Pwnagraphic]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

Your point being? I was just citing a very cool (and highly unusual) application for WAR that one guy has seemingly mastered. I couldn't believe it myself until I watched it but he was holding his own just as well as the PLD.

I tried this myself cause I was too lazy to do the PLD quest.. didn't work out so well.

[Malacite]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

Found it;

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oftdNNFfAg"]YouTube - WAR/WHM (As a support tank) vs Jormungand[/ame]



This guy's pretty epic. The main reason I brought this up is because it's cool, and it proves that at end game WAR is still a workable tank for anyone who wants to put the effort in. Ideal? No, but workable.

The Bottom Line; Don't be scared to tank on WAR if you have good support, with the possible exception of the mid 50's/60's where Colibri will eat you alive.

[Taskmage]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

I don't know if that really says anything though. After Kaeko's research showed what fast, cheap hate barelementra spells could be, I read about a whm/nin tanking Jormy.

[Lmnop]

Re: TO ALL NEW WARs: How to be awesome

Bards used to tank HNMs. Better than PLDs.

Also, last I knew (and it appears that video backs me up), the standard was something like 3x support/1 pld/2x war/whm. There was still a PLD in control, just sharing hate with wars who would be refreshed and curaga-crazing or some crap.

Watching further -- that's an Aegis PLD. >.>

Still, it's at least radically different than the "everyone /nin!" strategies that usually come out. I enjoy the war/whm support tanking stuff, and it, along with some story of a war/mnk tanking fafnir with PLD help, come to mind when people ask about WARs with shields.

However, it still goes better in our billions of not-newby-oriented-threads.